ufk22

To disagree with most of the previous posters, I would say Yes, bad YOU. It's always when thing get busy that we make mistakes. Misrouting the brakes is an easy mistake to make. Just yesterday, I was doing my end-of-the-day pack job, when I always walk the brake lines back from the canopy to get rid of line twists (prevents friction knots) and when I do this I set my brakes after walking the twists back, and while setting the second side, I noticed that I had set the loop on the wrong side of the ring. I looked at the first one and realized I'd done the same thing with that one. I caught it, but it would have been easy to miss. Yeah, I know, ultimately it's the young jumper's reponsibility to follow your advice, but they're the newbs and we're the ones with experience. I've made a ton of mistakes working with students over the years, almost always when things gwet busy, usually towards the end of the day, but my guess is you've learned from this and this is one mistake that you'll never make again. Thanks for posting this, it's a good reminder that we old-in-the-sport people can't sit around and bitch about how the youngsters never listen to our "sage advice", then blow off our own mistakes by saying "but, he's really responsibly for himself". This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

But I know what I want in my canopy. I love being able to plane it out on landing and fly it for awhile. (NOT HOOK TURNING) So far the ONLY canopy I have tried that I could accomplish that on is a Stiletto My landings have never been so soft. Everything else has pretty much been a one stage flare. .Quote If you can't get that sort of landing out of a Sabre, you really don't know how to fly a canopy. The reason the Stiletto is dangerous for an inexperienced pilot isn't it's glide or flare. It's the toggle response. The stiletto initiates a turn with far less input than most any other canopy. Just slightly reaching to the side with one hand when landing can biff you. A toggle input in an emergency that would be fine with almost any other canopy can screw you into the dirt. Just coming out of a flat turn too fast with slightly uneven control input can spin up the canopy. I put a few hundred jumps on a couple of different size Monarch's (Precisions version of the original Sabre) and could get beautiful surfs before I switched to the Stiletto. I actually didn't think the surfs were any better under the Stiletto, but did notice the extreme difference in how the canopy turned. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Prime example just a couple of threads up "poll;How do teach emergency procedures?" This guy take arrogance (and ignorance)to a whole new level. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

OK, to be clearer than I was in my 1st post. This is not a discussion, it appears to be a lecture. Always hated those lectures. "This is what happened to me once, therefore I know what's best for everyone, anytime, in any situation" Please feel free to wallow in your own little world while the rest of us go on in this one. And people wonder why newbs think people with experience just have "more years of attitude". In some cases the newbs may be right!!!! This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

If there is anyone out there that thinks the "One hand per handle" method is better, your WRONG. There is nothing that you could say that would change the fact that, that method is better. Quote So, if you absolutely KNOW the right answer, why the poll and the thread?????????? Forgive me for not voting. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

It's often better to be silent and let those around you think you may be ignorant, than to speak and prove their point. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

I've never posted here, but dude, I just have to respond at this point. I jump at the same dropzone as davelepka, He knows what he is talking about. You should listen to him. But that's not why I'm responding. I'm responding because of an experience I had yesterday. On my 75th jump, I was using a rental 220 Manta because my Sabre2 190 (1.0 loading) was having a reserve repack. On final, for some stupid reason, I flared a bit high. For some even stupider reason, I let up on the toggles. I let out an "oh shit" that my girlfriend heard from the picnic bench and PLF'ed the shit out of the landing. I haven't flared high like that since I was on student status. Thankfully I was under the 220 Manta. It might not have been so pretty under my Sabre2 190. And imagine what it might have looked like under a Stiletto 190....Or are you 100% confident that you would NEVER make that mistake? The problem is that he is 100% certain. Mistakes aren't just made by 100 jump wonders. We all make mistakes, but with 1000 jumps you figure out that you've made a mistake a lot faster. It doesn't mean you won't get hurt or killed, just give you a little better odds. Nice post, but the one who needs to read it probably won't, or if he does will look at it as proof that his "mad skilz" ARE much better than yours. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

This reminds me of a load I was on the last year the convention was in Quincy. i was jumping a V-2 with a leg pouch. A very young guy sat next to me on the plane and commented on my leg-pouch throw-out "man, don't you know that's dangerous, it could kill you" I told him i wasn't doing anything but belly-flying and, having dealt with an ugly horseshoe a couple of years before, wasn't in a hurry to switch to BOC. He asked what a horseshoe was!!!! This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

The only thing I'd add is that you don't have to "whip it around" at the end to land. Flat turns can be your best friend. But, better to land out than to land close to the ambulance. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Incorrect. I did my first jump in 1993. Didn't jump again until 1999. On my first jump in 93 all students had radios. In 99 all students had radios. They were both 182 dropzones. Since 99, I have been to a handful of 182 dropzones, all with radios. You don't know what you don't know. Agreed. I took the first jump course in 1989 and all students had radios, as they have had for every first jump course I've taught sinse. Radio was also used at 2 other cessna DZ's in our area for at least that long. Just because you were trained at a very "old school" DZ doesn't mean the rest of the world is that far behind the times. The DZ's in our area stoped using round mains in the mid-80's too. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

So what type of communication device was used? Arrow on ground, paddles, or nothing? Arrows would have been cool to see.......but no, there was no communication device used. So, NO form of communication with a first jump student? Read your SIM and tell me if you think there's anything wrong with this... This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

No reason to look up unless I can feel something is wrong. What's up there isn't going to fly into me. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

So what type of communication device was used? Arrow on ground, paddles, or nothing? This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

QuoteI firmly believe that all skydiving instructors should do some refresher training every year ... either that or earn a new rating every year. QuoteAgreed. We're all creatures of habit, plus we (almost) all like to keep life as easy for us as we can, and changing how we do things to is not as easy as just doing it the same way we did it last time. I could talk about how it took over 3 years to get alot of local instructors to use the ISP format when it first came out, or a 35+ year veteran instructor who still teaches turns with the "stick your hand out and push" method, but......... This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

So go out and do your own testing; then let us know what you find. JerryBaumchen This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

In spite of the appearance of huge egos in this sport, for a lot of people it's just a front. Plain and simple insecurity. In other words "I do what I do to be cool. If you're doing something else, it doesn't reinforce that what I'm doing is cool." This causes me to doubt my "coolness". Therefore I must challenge what you're doing to in the attempt to reinforce my own weak self-concept of my "coolness". The arguments over what's harder posted here are just another example. Who cares what THEY think??? Just have fun. That, or you're just a dweeb This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

In spite of the appearance of huge egos in this sport, for a lot of people it's just a front. Plain and simple insecurity. In other words "I do what I do to be cool. If you're doing something else, it doesn't reinforce that what I'm doing is cool." This causes me to doubt my "coolness". Therefore I must challenge what you're doing to in the attempt to reinforce my own weak self-concept of my "coolness". That, or if you're at a Cessna DZ, they're just tired of doing all those 3-ways. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

This is the last post in "incidents" referring to the death in Port Aransas, TX, and it raises an interesting question. How far do we go to regulate "unsafe" behavior in a sport that has as it's core (jumping out of an airplane) something that is by any standards "unsafe behavior"? I started in the sport long enough ago to have been part of the "we laugh at death" culture of the time. The sport has evolved considerably over the last 20 years,i.e. use of seatbelts, AAD's for NON-students, higher pull altitudes, much better and safer gear, etc, but as been said, "as we make each part of the sport safer, skydiver will just find new and better ways to kill themselves". The question; Where is the balance between personal freedom and responsibility, which is at the heart of this sport, vs. controlling what can be considered "unsafe" because of the ramifications such behavior has on all of us and our sport? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3828495;page=5;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; _____________ Very interesting posts on this topic and this is the first time I'm speaking up. First: I met Peter, hosted him in my home, and liked him. An humble gentleman and courteous guest. A joy to have around. I've been reading some of your firsthand experiences of him and learning a lot about him and his habits. And frankly, it makes me wonder about others who want to visit here. Here we go: -The Mustang Island/ Port Aransas beach jumps were an idea I conceived several years ago and have been working on ever since. I live here, work here, know *everyone* here, and it's my home. -I consulted a dude who calls himself "Skydive Atlas" to help me bring a quality Staff here to help make it happen. -After reading previous posts about Peter's desire to "swoop everything" from churches, schools, buildings, crowds, etc. I realize how stupid I was and how much more I should have spoken up. NONE of us in Port Aransas, Texas want people here whose intent is to show us how fast they can fly and how close they can come to our structures and families in OUR community. Sorry. -Parachuting is BRAND NEW here and the public will be sufficiently impressed if you just fly a square pattern, land into the wind, and stand it up. That's cool enough. -I hate Peter's gone. But from what some of you are writing, I guess I and my community should feel fortunate he hit a roof and not a group of children on the beach. -After this incident, we'll be lucky if the new Mayor, Chief of Police and City Council allow skydiving to ever happen here again. -Bottom line: If you and your peeps wanna do things YOUR way, stay at YOUR dropzone in YOUR town. If you wanna come jump the beaches of North Padre/ Mustang Island/ City of Port Aransas, Texas, check with us first and keep it conservative. There will be no more "Skydive-Atlas" style shenanigans down here. Ever. Jason T www.SkydiveSouthTexas.com This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

After my one-and-only (out of 4 total) chop from tension knot. I did a lot of research. According to PD, tension knot are almost always caused by twisted brake lines. Their recommendations; make sure to run the brake lines back from the canopy the last pack job of the day, make sure to stow the toggles after each landing. I stow almost immediately after landing and still end up with a few twists by the end of the day. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

I had an old PD190 that I donated to the DZ school once it started stalling hard during the flare. It got to about 1500 jumps before it was unsafe even for 100 pound women, and was then retired. I remember the day, when canopies got scarry they became student gear. My first rig had a worn out canopy, "earth seaking missle" I called it. But, loaded at .8, it was fine. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

The problem is, once we learn, we'll just find another new way to kill ourselves. I started 20 years ago at a "old time" DZ. Very focused on student safety for 1st jumpers, after that very old school. Low pulls and ignoring wind conditions was common, even a point of pride. Back then no-one ever buckled a belt, even students. I learned to be proud of pulling a 4-way off at 2500', 4000' meant we'd turn at least a couple of points before breakoff. Let's face it, we're all adreneline junkies, and high performance landing are just a new way to squeeze a little more adreneline of of the skydive. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

My experience Torn in April, surgery in May, Jumping in July. I made sure that I didn't get in a position where I had to use that hand for a exit grip (let people take a grip on me, not vice versa) for the first couple of months. Also, wean yourself of the pain meds, except at night, as quick as you can. It's easy to do damage using that arm if the meds cover up the pain. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

What to do; Be prepared ahead of time. Get a new SIM and an IRM. Take the test and recheck your answers (it's open book anyway, so why not have it done before the class). Put together basic lesson plans for every topic. Try to utilize the teaching techniques, as outlined in the IRM, and use them as a criteria to look at and develope your lesson plans. Know the material before you get there. Practice recalling everything that went on right after your skydives, even maybe writing down a play-by-play, even is it's only a 2-way (this will help you get into the "recall mode"). What not to do; Don't try to teach a complete skydiving course in each lesson. You have 15 minutes, so cover the pertenent material only. Most candidates forget the assumption that this lesson is only a part of the students total training and try to squeeze in way to much other material. Don't blow the hard-deck (instant fail, everyone know this, but usually about 1/3 of my candidates do it anyway) don't brain-lock, the Coach course is an intense 3 days. When you start to get fried, like we tell students, take a deep breath, exhale slowly, then go on. If you want to PM me, I'll send you the stuff I send out to my candidates prior to the course to help them prepare. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

If after only 7 years in sport you're talking this way, I hate to think what you'll be like after 20. The "I was trained this way, I think I turned out OK, so that means the way I was trained must be the best" is normally an attitude I have to fight with the "old guard", took me 4 years for some of them to actually start using the ISP. Why does everyone seem to think radios are a necessity today? Why can't students be trained enough to accept responsibility for themselves? I especially think this would be an advantage in any incident in that the blame can be laid no where else except on the student. Train them correctly and completely and if they choose to accept the risk and jump it's their responsibility. We all know, and in the case of students they should definitely be told, that sometimes shit happens and you die. But we still jump. I hope you're not as young as your photo looks, cause you talk just like the oldest skydivers I know This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Chain of command 1. talk to the individual in question 2. Talk to your S&TA 3. Talk to the DZO 4. Talk to your regional BOD member] 5. File a written complaint with USPA This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.