Trent

Well since so many people think that cops could should only shoot to wound... maybe the sharpshooters could shoot their hands off? That should be fine. I'd be in favor of them dropping tear gas, dye bombs, and good stuff like that. Oh, hello again!

But a slightly larger percentage of terrorists are people coming from jihad countries. And by slightly I mean significantly. Look, until it is feasible to search the entire haystack for bad guys, what is the problem with increasing scrutiny on one section of it while maintaining your usual search through the rest of it? Notice I didn't say ignore everyone else... again. And since the US does have quite a few pictures and descriptions of actual terrorists... looking at people matching those descriptions isn't racial profiling then is it? Bill, ideally... we would increase security across the board: borders, customs, airlines, ships, etc. I don't think anyone will argue that that is a bad idea. (nevermind someone will) UNTIL then, it makes sense to look for people who match a profile of the people who have caused us harm in the past WHILE maintaining scrutiny on everyone else as it is. Even Bill Mahr agrees with that. Oh, hello again!

When did I say ONLY to use race, Bill. If you go back and read my posts you'll see I'm advocating what you called "using your brain". You seem to keep pushing to make it sound like I'm only wanting to base this on race. Stop that. I've said "fit the profile (meaning more than just race)" how many times now? And you also keep implying that I'm advocating ONLY pay attention to those that fit the current "maybe terrorist" profile and letting everyone else escape all scrutiny. Stop that too. I don't think it is an inevitable result that we will ignore people not fitting profiles if they are used. A simple flagging system built into the customs computers and airline check-in machines will keep that honest. You want to run everyone through a full check, fine by me. I'll bring a book to the airport and when I pass through customs. You'll find plenty of people who will argue against that though for various personal and financial reasons. You don't think El Al looks closer at an Arab than an Israeli of european descent? I'd be surprised if they didn't. Oh, hello again!

Who said anything about putting people in jail? Who said anything about ONLY using race to profile for security? If the people blowing themselves up pretty much all fit a certain profile (coming from a jihad country, middle eastern, chechen, whatever), why is it a bad thing to pay a little more attention? Is it better to put a focus on what we're looking for or to just be totally random? If the people NOT fitting those profiles are still randomly searched as they are now... how are we worse off? The old mindset of "We would ONLY look at arabs if we profile" will guarantee that we pretty much do nothing different than we're doing now. Unless you can figure out how to have every airline passenger and everyone coming into the country interviewed and searched completely... Oh, hello again!

Alex- I don't have to research security to know that someone fitting a certain profile SHOULD have a higher chance of being searched. Just because you pay more attention to the people who are similar to those who have been terrorists in the past doesn't mean you have to completely stop randomly searching everyone else. What do you lose here? You add focus on a certain description of person (notice, not necessarily race), but maintain the random aspect for all others not fitting that description. Most people's problem with this kind of focus is that it just makes sense. Wendy- I'm not going to argue any points about how rampant it is to give contracts to nephews. I don't think ANYONE should get a government contract just because they are of a particular class or race. Race shouldn't be used in who gets work. Profiling people who fit certain descriptions (which includes but is not limited to race) should be used. The problem is that it seems we've got it backwards in practice. Bill- So it's okay to profile when lives are at stake? Sounds like you agree that profiling terrorists is a good idea! Nice! Now just out of curiosity, what medicines can't be given to certain races? Oh, hello again!

Look harder. Using race to identify people in one case, and not being allowed to use race to identify people in another. Oh, hello again!

It's more about how it's okay to use race to award contracts from the government for the transportation system, but not okay to use race/looks/whatever to identify suspicious persons using our transportation system. Oh, hello again!

Screw it, let's blame him anyway. I agree that it is both unproductive and goes against what many people in the US have worked for... building a successful business based on doing good work for good prices. Oh, hello again!

At least we can still blame Clinton for some of it!! But for Bush and his Clinton holdover, Norm Mineta, it's business as usual at the Transportation Department. You can profile for profit, but not for public safety. Oh, hello again!

What an intelligent observation! Let's see who disagrees with her.... Oh, hello again!

Not true... most of the Venezuelans with money and education can afford to take the money and run... many have. Rich people have NOTHING to lose since most of their money moved out of the country when Chavez started his descent into lunacy. On the opposite hand, the very people who you say support him (the poor) are the ones most directly suffering from his reign. Their bolivars are worthless, they STILL don't have the houses he promised or the clinics he promised... and they're still poor. Many of the people against Chavez are pretty average as far as money is concerned... or else there are MILLIONS of rich Venezuelans in each town. I'm sure Chavez promised them that too, but then he basically worked on a campaign of intimidation and bribery... like a big kid running for class president and handing out lollipops. Oh, hello again!

Just observations that pretty much the entire population of the major cities was out by the millions protesting against him. Hell, you guys don't even hate Bush enough to get that kind of protest going. That and what I've been told by people who DID go vote in their elections. Well wonder no more! Apparently oil is not the ONLY factor in who we invade since we weren't getting much from Iraq and we DO get mucho from Venezuela. Sorry to deflate your theory like that... Oh, hello again!

There is a great book about this incident called "Night Fall" by Nelson Demille. While it is a fictional account of an investigation into TWA800, it presents a lot of points based on actual eyewitness testimony and follows one of the theories pretty well. Even if you don't buy the story... it's a great read. Oh, hello again!

When President Bush decides to extend his term indefinitely, I'll join you in protesting... until then, it has VERY LITTLE to do with our president or the patriot act. While it may sound like a good argument on the surface, it shows you have no idea how horrible Chavez is. Yes, Chavez is a complete idiot. The problem with the elections there was that we let one of our own American idiots back the story that the elections were fair and there was no tampering, Jimmy Carter. Chavez is fast becoming a dictator with a messiah complex. We should all learn more about the situation down there, because it doesn't look like it's going to get better anytime soon. Oh, and as an aside... every Venezuelan I know has said that they wished the US would take his ass out or invade and get rid of him. I know more than a handful of Venezuelans. Oh, hello again!

Yeah, gotta crack down on those countries in the area who got rid of corrupt elections and wanted a democracy for themselves (Ukraine, Tibet, Taiwan). Best just to let the Chinese run everything. I sure hope we have some people in our intelligence agencies who can keep an eye on things over there. I think it'll be scary... that's just me though... Oh, hello again!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/08/18/china.russia.military.ap/index.html A big scary alliance? Nothing to worry about? Or maybe we'll see something similar to what happened in Tom Clancy's "The Dragon and The Bear"? Oh, hello again!

First, neither country can be classified as a race since both the US and UK are 2 of the most diversified countries in the world. What you mistakenly perceive as racial snobbery is probably both countries' belief that capitalism and democracy are superior to other forms of government. You want to say the US and UK feel superior to other people and countries? Go visit, China or the middle east for some good examples of that. Hell, just about all countries come off that they're superior to others at one time or another. Oh, hello again!

Yeah, Super, Dan, our Dan, Mari, Vlad, Ivette, and pretty much every Venezuelan I know... it's pretty obvious how they feel! Oh, hello again!

Ask some Venezuelans what they think about Chavez. You'll see, the guy pretty much thinks he's Jesus. Total wack-job. The guy has no excuses. Oh, hello again!

I wonder if the tar sand filtering is already in the works or if the oil companies are perfectly happy with the way it is now. Should buy us time to get our dependence on oil down in the meantime though.... Oh, hello again!

Russia, Mexico... hell, why not Iraq? Like GravityMaster said, someone else will just swoop in to buy his oil. He's already deep under the covers with the Chinese anyway, but I bet it'd still make a dent for a while if it wasn't going to us anymore. And since this thread became an oil thread more than a Chavez thread... BillV, whatever happened to it being profitable to start getting oil from shale and sandstone as long as the price per barrell is above $43? Didn't we talk about that a while ago? It'd be nice if some US oil companies got off their asses and got to work on this. Oh, hello again!

Did anyone actually read the 2 articles? Chavez is pushing quickly towards a totalitarian anti-American socialist government with allies like China, Iran, Cuba, Colombian drug lords, etc. Sometimes I wonder if anyone in our government is paying attention to what is going on down there and in places like China. We have things to worry about. The only reason I brought oil into this is because it would be a nice "fuck you" to Chavez if we shifted the oil purchases somewhere else to teach his dumb-ass a lesson. Oh, hello again!

Chavez descends further down the path of jackassery... Chavez: U.S. will 'bite the dust' if it invades: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/09/chavez.invasion.ap/index.html Venezuela suspends anti-drug cooperation : http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/07/venezuela.drugs.reut/index.html This guy is an aspiring Kim Jong Il. Megolomania built on destroying his own country from the inside out. Wow. Oh, hello again!

Well, apparently only 8% of the responses have a DZ that does the 2 passes thing for tandems. There must be some reason that the overwhelming majority don't use this practice. While I can see where it could speed up the tandem process which in turn saves the DZ money... I feel that the negatives outweigh the benefits. Add another plane to the equation and it gets worse. For me, the aircraft emergency reason is good enough. Unlike Bill and one or two others here, I feel that in the OFF chance that something happened between 1,000 and 2500ft, having tandems by the door WOULD be a problem. Just wanted to see what other people thought about this practice. Oh, hello again!

My point wasn't so much about traffic and opening altitudes and congestion so much as something apparently overlooked pretty often... aircraft emergencies with tandems blocking the door, or just slow/unable to get out quickly. For every reason I can imagine, like Tom said... it just makes sense to have the tandems out last at full altitude. I just heard a few people talking about other DZ's that were putting them out low and wanted to see how common that was. Saying something like, "Well, if there was a REAL emergency, you'd probably die anyway," or something similar just wont' work. 8 tandems in front of the door in a real emergency that required low altitude exits WILL be a problem that may end up killing sport jumpers to save a few bucks. Still sounds like a bad idea, even if the chances are slim that it would happen. Oh, hello again!