Trent

I agree that the process NOW is crappy and too difficult for people who want to do it the right way. THAT is why reform is needed. Stricter rules for those sneaking in. Stricter rules for those hiring them. Better border control. Better application processes for "legitimate" immigrants. Better work visas for those who will play ball. All that stuff. And I'm pretty sure your friend could have come back with the kids, no problem. Getting the Visa for the wife would be the only problem in our system nowadays. From what my friends in Mexico tell me... it sounds like they just got an embassy official who was a reall asshole. I know a bunch of Mexicans who have 10 year visitor visas to the US. All they had to do was prove that they had enough reason to go BACK to Mexico after their visit was done. These aren't really rich people either. Like I said... sounds like they were talking to a prick. Oh, hello again!

That's why, in some form or another, a guest worker program is a good idea. My personal opinion is that after a few years of "guest-workering" and paying taxes and following the rules... people should be given a simpler way of becoming a permanent resident. You mention preferring having people here and documented... well, how do you propose to do that if you think that we can't keep people out? Making illegals more... illegal WHILE making it easier for people to come and work temporarily is a good start. BUT, 2 things have to happen at once... more border security AND a viable work program. Oh, hello again!

The even FUNNIER thing is the picture in this month's mag of the "atmonauti" jump over the Al-Ain airshow... is not of an "atmonauti" jump at all. That dive was planned, and executed as a tracking dive. So much for that, but it IS a nice pic. It's funny about the "atmonauti" hoopla... we used to call it a "steep tracking dive" which is in contrast to a "flat tracking dive." Who knew that WE actually invented it, but just didn't know the right name for it!! Oh, hello again!

I know I'm late in here... I'm on that jump. No idea how the handle came out, but we figured it might have snagged something on the door during climbout or exit. Anyway, in the pic, he hadn't noticed the handle yet. We were trying to get his attention so we could all get back to our bellies. He noticed it as it was a bit further out, slapping him in the face. By the time we went flat, and spread out... it had come completely out and was gone. He pulled his reserve. Oh, hello again!

Yeah yeah... I got it already. I was typing between loads and not paying attention. It is also interesting to see how the industrial face of the US has changed. There was a time when we needed every warm body to man our factories. Since we've sold most of our factories off to China, we no longer need all of the huddled masses. However, if the hard workers want to come on over... let them apply legally and come on. What exactly IS the problem with a nation knowing who is coming and going, and enforcing their border protection through law? Oh, hello again!

Oops, you're right... it's jus soli that I'm concerned with. Let's amend away! Oh, hello again!

I'm still waiting to hear someone give a good reason as to why anyone in their right mind thinks these "protestors" (read as: kids wanting to get out of school under the guise of having some kind of misguided principles) have any leg to stand on whatsoever. Part of a debate or negotiation is to be clear about what you want. What is it that these anti-reform people want? Open borders? No enforcement? Amnesty? Nothing done any differently? What? As far as I can tell, someone said immigration and latino in the same sentence and all the "victims" get riled up. I sincerely hope that our government has the balls to do what the majority of voting CITIZENS want done. Somehow I doubt it'll happen. Someone in some party will chicken out thinking that in 20 years some of these people will have votes and start pandering to them now. Wonder if the "jus sanguinis" clause will get any amending too... Oh, hello again!

We still DO have a plan.... It IS being followed!! Hahahaha, see? You've been fooled by our masterful world-domination plan... just as we've... planned. After we install a puppet ruler in Iraq who will sell us all their oil at $5/barrell... we'll slowly infiltrate into Iran... who we'll trick into nuking China, Cuba, and North Korea due to their lack of religion. We'll then stand back and let our puppet Iraqi military take over Iran then we'll dominate the world's oil and make you Europeans really pay for not kissing our ass! Didn't you get the memo? Oh, hello again!

JUST AS WE'VE SUSPECTED!! Us Americans really are the devil and all of those innocent countries supplying the majority of SH's army were just innocent pawns in our diabolical scheme. That sure makes a country that many people describe as stupid or ignorant sure look smart... to manipulate all those "more civilized" Europeans like that. And I'm sure we'll definitely go straight to hell for making those angelic Russians and Chinese look like they might be less than innocent too. There really MUST be an explanation that proves the US is the bad guy even though most of the weapons used by bad guys worldwide DO NOT COME FROM THE US. Oh, hello again!

Now if THAT isn't the pot calling the kettle black.... nothing is!! Good laugh, good laugh. Oooohh, it gets even BETTER!!! *holding sides to show just how funny that post was* Did you really want an answer to the question? I'm sorry, I thought it was YET ANOTHER sneaky little one-line shot. Surely, you can understand how I might have confused that... coming from you. But anyway... *sigh*... Since you've asked about legal Mexican visitors being paid in Mexico for jobs here in the US (HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, because you THOUGHT that I was being sneaky NOT because that actually happens).... Yeah, that's not okay. Their employer needs to get their permits in order and pay their taxes. But from a security standpoint... at least we'd know they were here since they came in legally... and that's a step in the right direction. Oh, hello again!

For sure, it's better. However... buried in the story are 2 telltale paragraphs.... #1: followed later in the article by #2 What you have here is a story about an activist's theory, which could be true... and is refuted by "experts" with another explanation. Either way, the story is long on allegation and speculation and short on facts. Notice I didn't say anyone was right or wrong... (IMO) Oh, hello again!

Didn't read my other post, didja? Thaaat's what I thought. Oh, hello again!

My presence is a HUGE boon to their economy... are you kidding? I buy food, beer, beer, and t-shirts. But seriously folks, the only time I've been paid to work outside of the US is in Mexico. They've taken care of getting my work permit and paying the taxes for me. Funny... kinda reverse of what's happening in the US, huh? So... still not a "gotcha"! No, but they should... and have fined people who are paying people without a work visa. I've known several skydiver coaches and packers to get booted from the US for this exact reason. Sure it sucks that it'd apply to skydivers, but it has to be fair across the board. The guest worker program that I'm thinking of would make it easier for them to come work legally too. Oh, hello again!

I hadn't read it that way... I took his quote about not supporting amnesty to mean that he would not push a bill that did what you are saying. If he does support it, it will be another point on which I do NOT agree with GWB. I will add that to my evil plan to stop illegal immigration. Good idea... and that was kinda what I thought would happen anyway. Amnesty is NOT okay. Holy shit... this has been happening a lot lately in SC. What the hell is going on? Oh, hello again!

I'm NOT saying that, nor do I interpret Bush's statements to mean that. Where are you getting this? A guest worker program that does NOT grant permanent residency is what I'd like to see. That's the point. Tighten up the borders as best we can. Make TEMPORARY work visas easier to get for people who have family or a reason to go back (This is kinda how getting a visa works now, btw). Let them work, pay taxes, and go home till next time. Now we have more control over who's coming in and out. Combine that with more effective controls over people hiring illegals and you have a step towards a workable, realistic solution. I suppose you'd just have ALL immigration shut down? Sure... that's realistic. Because it isn't giving them permanent residence just because we can't be bothered to get them out. That's not what anyone is saying... they'd have to COME IN as a guest worker. It makes it better for them? Like they get free education and healthcare while they're here? Wait, that's happening NOW! The guest worker program would at least get some tax dollars from them. Also, many would make their money and go home at some point. Contrary to what we might think as Americans... not EVERYONE would rather live here. But like I said, that can be determined at the application for the guest worker visa. Okay, so if not that, what? Oh, hello again!

I'm paid in the US. Even besides that point... I leave any countries I visit for boogies without putting a strain on their social services AND I carry insurance to cover any medical emergencies AND I have a return ticket, a passport, and invitations to enter the country. So... nice try to make it relevant on a personal level, but it falls flat. Oh, hello again!

You say: Then you post: It IS hard to enter the US legally if they think looking for a job and looking to stay. Ask some folks that are trying to do things the right way now and see if it's a walk in the park. A lot of illegals cross the border several times a year to go home to their families. Guest worker programs would make that legal for them to do, provide us with labor that we need, and make sure that these guys are paying taxes for the services they get while here. If employers were punished for hiring illegally, a guest worker program could prevent people from being hired once their work visa is expired. They'd have to go home to renew. It could work. Oh, hello again!

I'm up for some camping! Texas has lots of nice, desolate places to explore. Until then, I'll write a few letters making sure that my reps know I want them to do something. I'll also avoid hiring illegal aliens and make a good effort to make sure that companies I use don't as well. You should ask contractors if they hire illegals too. It makes some of them squirm. Oh, hello again!

It is quite obvious that Saddam and most other terroristic and despotic regimes buy their weaponry from the "good old USA", right? Especially all the T-80s, AK-47/74's and the MIGs. We won't even talk about all the Russian nuclear reactors the US is selling all over the world! Oh, hello again!

Not 100% really, but I DO oppose the amnesty programs. Guest worker programs, if managed properly, are the way to go... and the president is for that. Then he also said this though.... We'll see if he REALLY does oppose amnesty or not. If Ted Kennedy said "I oppose illegal immigration, giving automatic citizenship to kids of illegals, and I want a big fence, real enforcement on employers, guest worker programs, and taxation on monies earned so we can pay for services rendered," I'd agree with him. What's the point? Oh, hello again!

Same way counterfeiters are always dealt with. Besides, it's hard to use a fake SS# if someone wakes up and references it with the SS Admin. Pretty easy to tell if more than one person are using the same number, or if the number doesn't exist at all. I think it'd be pretty reasonable to have that check done at the beginning of employment. I have a national ID card, it has "stuff" embedded in it and even a bar code *gasp*. I just call it a passport. I also have a state ID since I'm from the fascist state of Texas. They have magnetic stips on the back of their IDs too. It IS scary isn't it? No one's putting a chip in my ass though. Yes, that IS easier than talking about the issue... or even doing something about it. Oh, hello again!

Oil for AK's? Oil for MIGs? Oil for a proxy war with the US? Hmmmmmm.... Oh, hello again!

I wouldn't use depleted uranium cologne either. Nothing I've said or seen has said that DU was good for you. Oh, hello again!

Sometimes it's useful to give someone you suspect is helping your enemies disinformation so that once you see the enemies' reactions, you'll know that it's not just a "suspected leak" anymore. Either that, or the Russians were trying to help us without being seen as helping us. Which would be strange since the Iraqis were such good customers of theirs... Oh, hello again!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/immigration/index.html How does anyone have a leg to stand on here? What is it that the protesters want? Completely open borders where anyone can come and go as they please? More tax free income to send home while getting free health care and education for their kids? These protests are a joke... no one is saying that we don't want Latinos here... just not ILLEGAL immigrants. Do it right, or don't do it. What is so wrong with a country wanting to know who is coming in? They SHOULD deport illegals... They SHOULD fine the shit out of employers hiring them... They SHOULD make it easier and practical so that people can come work seasonally... They SHOULD not give citizenship to the children of illegals, or at least not make it effective till they're 18... They SHOULD expect guest workers to pay taxes and abide by our laws... They also should have used the rallies to round up illegals! Oh, hello again!