Levin

- For the sake of time some of the text has been copied from my other post. – This thread is to discuss the structure and introduction of a new Rebel Freeflyer license system. This thread is not intended for discussion of test requirements. Relevant topics include… 1. Why does freeflying need a license system? 2. What does a Rebel Freeflyer license do? What is it’s purpose? 3. How to implement it? 4. What does it cost? Why does freeflying both need and want a license system? Freeflying is probably the hardest discipline to learn in skydiving. The learning curve is broad and long sometimes spanning over a course of several years. Currently the vast majority of freeflyers fit into this initial learning curve. There are certain basic skills that one must acquire before they are safe to jump with other people. As it is right now, there is really no way to know if someone has the proper skills without first jumping with them. For group freefly skydives these skills need to be determined before boarding the plane. Those in the initial learning curve would benefit the most. Since the number of upcoming freeflyers greatly outnumbers the experienced freeflyers, newer freeflyers tend to mostly jump with newer freeflyers. Since these jumps are usually unorganized, a freefly license system would give the upcoming freeflyers a tool to better organize their own dives and so that they can get the most out of them. Since load organizers jump with everybody they also would benefit greatly from a license system. Also much of the freefly community, especially those in the initial learning curve appear to want a license system because it gives them a set list of goals to work towards. What is the purpose of the Rebel Freefly license system? To provide a widely accepted system of attainable goals that 1st places an emphasis on safety and 2nd on personal achievement. An unnumbered system that places little importance on when these goals are achieved, just so long that they are achieved. A system that serves the best interest of the freefly community. What does a Rebel Freefly license do? By having demonstrated a level of skill and control the licenses serve as certificates of achievement suggesting the degree of safety that can be expected from a license holder. This quick reference would help freeflyers keep their dives safe and better enable load organizers to do their jobs. And by recognizing personal achievement, it provides a list of goals. How to implement a new system? First off I want to say that I am not using my website for any kind of personal gain nor is my interest in starting a new license system in anyway for any kind of personal gain. Hopefully everybody’s seen the freeflyers.com thread and checked out the site. I think that website looks really nice and professional and could be very useful for promoting the new Rebel Freeflyer License system. And in return the Rebel Freeflyer License system would help promote freeflyers.com on a much greater scale, since we can’t promote a nationally recognized license on a website dedicated to one particular state. If the freefly community is interested in a new system and okay with me using freeflyers.com as the official website for it, then I will in-turn, turn freeflyers.com into a national freeflying site instead of one dedicated just to Texas. I talked to Dan and he said it really wouldn’t be all that hard. The hard stuff is mostly already done. Of course he would have to be compensated for his time but it wouldn’t be much for just one person to pay. A representative from each state on the site would have ability to administrate and make changes. But that is only if the freefly community would be okay with me volunteering to keep track of everything. Otherwise I like the site like it is, dedicated to Texas. And I’m currently using the site to promote and get the word out about the freefly scene in Texas in hope that more people will come visit us. Florida and Arizona aren’t the only places to go in the winter. Administering the licenses would be fairly simple. One person or organization keeps track of the records (myself). A record will be kept and constantly updated of those that qualify for license on Freeflyers.com. A small number of advanced freeflyers in each state or region would be authorized to give the test. (requirements for test and ballmaster will be discussed in separate thread.) A list of those authorized would be on the website a side of the list of license holders. The number of authorized test givers will not be limited to a very small number of people so that they can capitalize on it. The number of test givers for a given area will be small enough to keep the system simple and large enough to make the test readily available pretty much anywhere. After a freeflyer meets the requirements for a particular test, the coach or ballmaster sends me a short application with small photo of freeflyer for I.D., plus a very reasonable fee for postage and handling and cost of materials. I in turn file the application, add the persons name and other information (if applicable) to the database on freeflyers.com, and make the license. Unless the freeflyer was visiting from another DZ, all licenses will be sent to the coach/ballmaster or dropzone. The actual license would be NOT numbered, sized to fit in a wallet, laminated with picture ID, cool looking and have the license title such as Rebel Freeflyer Advanced. The back should somehow define the license holders skills such as “This freeflyer has achieved and demonstrated skills that suggest he/she is in control of their flight and safe to themselves and others”. The back should also have the name of the coach/ballmaster that gave the test and date the license is issued. Since the license can’t be signed after it is laminated, my signature would verify that all the information and signatures on the license application are complete and correct. Also since such a high percentage of freeflyers are the ones doing the hook turns it probably wouldn’t hurt to include an emergency contact number or a known allergy such as penicillin. For a new system to work it has to have support from the local advanced freeflyers at a given DZ. The ones that load organize, are on teams, or serve as role models for the local freefly community. For them to support it they need to see the purpose behind it have a motive for taking part. The best motive is encouragement from the freefly community. A second motive is active participation by administering test. I think the cost for these license tests should be the same as a high dollar coach jump. With 100% of the proceeds after slots and license fee going to the ballmaster or coach, the way it should be. Even though many people complain that the test are too expensive, I believe their real complaint is that all the proceeds go to one entity. It is obvious by looking at this that this entire proposed new system would pretty much have to be based on an honor system. Since the ballmasters/coaches will be policed only by the freefly community in general, success of the entire system greatly depends on their being honest, following the rules and upholding the requirements for each license and not trying to use the privilege as a primary source of income. And again to make it a success it needs to be accepted, recognized, supported and promoted by us all. This is the hard part, the part that is up to each of us. What does it cost? Cost for each license should be the same as a high dollar coach jump. I think $75 would be appropriate. Slots go to dropzone, $5 license fee to recover cost and the rest goes to the coach/ballmaster. The license fees will recover cost for cards, postage and handling, web hosting, laminating rolls or sleeves and lamination machine, which cost between $60 and $400. I am hoping that discussions between these two threads will lead to a complete and well thought out ruff draft that would be ready to be presented to the freefly community. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

I really don’t see the whole sport as being like that. Only it’s 3 favorite disciplines: canopy swooping, freeflying and RW. Speed skydiving could probably make a good 4th but it’s just starting to catch on over here. IMO, if wingsuits ever took off like freeflying, that discipline could potentially add a whole new level of degree to your question. Maybe all this is because there are 100’s of belly flyers at the DZ and only so many slots on the bigways. Or in the case of freeflying, perceived elite since there is rarely enough people present that can do them. In freeflying I think the biggest reason is the lengthy duration of the initial learning curve which can span a few years. I think at this stage measuring ourselves against others (or those that are better) is a positive thing. It gives us goals. Provides assurance that the time and money spent improving will pay off. It provides a motivation for staying the path of continuing to better ourselves. And it gives us sight about what might be attainable tomorrow and what might be attainable years down the road. The answer to your question is also, in part, a result of the very competitive nature of these disciplines and ourselves. It’s because of these competitive natures that a status is formed when measuring ourselves against those with lesser skills. We see it in the form of sky goda and low number addictions. I think this is what you meant in regard to your question The new freefly licenses I am proposing will not use a numbering system. The cure is time. Soon, like RW, talent will become a dime a dozen. Status based on skills will carry little weight and low numbers will be a reflection of old age. Or in the event of a collision and/or fatality, who shouldn't have been on the skydive. In such a case, a freefly license system may have helped the load organizer to have done a better job. No need for attacks because somehow we all know when and which threads should be taken seriously and not veered off topic. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com edit: add 2nd to last quote and reply. i type much of my post in word.doc and copy over. forgot part. 2nd edit: edited to add 1st edit

The first and most important question regarding this issue. I am fixing to start the first of 2 or 3 threads to address and further discuss the possibility of a new license. Breaking it down into different topics will hopefully keep things more orderly and constructive. I think CRW is to unique in itself to make a good comparison. RW is a lot the opposite of freeflying. Learning curves for example. The basics of RW and all of it’s first milestones are easily learned. New skydivers with only 50 or 100 jumps can be expected to be responsible for themselves in freefall and safe to jump with others. This discipline starts out easy and gets harder. Once the basics are learned, further accomplishment is made thru fine tuning and accelerating precise movements relative to and in conjunction with a group of others. The realm of RW is bound by the limited nature of the discipline. Or in other words, “Anything is possible” does not apply. And there are other reasons, but I think the ones I’ve stated make a good enough argument. And ratings are for instructing. Freefly coaching is regulated by reputation, not USPA. A rating says that one is responsible for the safety of another. A freefly license should show that one is responsible for themselves. Although the requirements for an AFF rating may not be a 15 point 4-way, the rating can be perceived as a measure of one’s skill. RW is the entry level discipline in skydiving. All these AFF instructors had to get there skills somewhere. CRW, again, is imo to unique for a good comparison. As far as the other disciplines here in Houston, I know of 2 skysurfers, 1 freestylist and a couple or 3 stylist. So of course they are easily self regulated. Here those disciplines are almost extinct. Canopy Swooping may not be regulated now but you can bet some kind of regulation is going to happen someday if the numbers of high speed landing accidents does not cease. If not by Jim Slaton, then by the USPA. The second of the threads regarding this issue will discuss license requirements and who should administer the test. As I’ve said in another thread. There is nothing wrong with what Olav did. The AD system, like you said, is his. His system is controversial because it does not meet all of the needs and wants of the freeflying community. In future threads I hope that we can leave his name out of this as much as possible. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com

4.5) Everyone should know the anatomy & physiology of their parachute container. They should also know how to check each of these areas for wear and tear and damage. They should know how and why different areas show wear the way they do. I think the USPA A,B,&C license (maybe D, but by the time you have 500...) test should include a couple of questions that test knowledge over some of the most simple and basic aspects of rigging. The common sense ones that pertain to maintaining your own personal gear inlcuding rental and student gear when jumping it. Such as replacing velcro and keeping cables clean; which finally brings me to the point of this post. And I only said personal because it is our own responsibility to make sure our rig is safe. It's the rigger's responsibility to repair and make the needed changes. Exceptions being the really simple things, just as easily done by the rig's owner. These are rubber bands, closing loops, flexing 3-rings and cleaning those cables because clean cables make it easier to cut-away. Much of the skydiving population as a whole do not how to make a closing loop or take care of it (heat and friction wears them out-prematurly. Put the pull-up cord under the pin and pull out slowly, a little at a time). Since the cables are hidden they all to often go neglected. Usually kerosine or wd-40 is what's available to me most of the time. Sometime's somekind of silicone spray. I think there is something out there that is recommended as the best thing to use (can't remember - maybe it's the silicone spray). Irregardless, any of those items or similar items will work. Some may take one wipe, others 2 or 3. Check the tips of red cables for metal wearing thru. The point I want to make is to the people that usually or always use packers. The packers only responsibility is to pack your parachute. Their job description does not include maintaining your rig. Most packers will replace a closing loop if it looks like it is going to break. Usually free of charge. Cables cannot be inspected by just glancing at the rig. Typically they just don't have the time to check and clean them. Think about this. If a packer mistakingly stows a break line wrong or forgets all together and you have a nasty spun up malfunction on your little loaded canopy and all of the sudden you can't cut-away. Whose fault is it that you got hurt or died? I've talked to way to many new jumpers that don't know how to clean their cables. So they just don't do it. Instead wait the 120 days for the rigger to do it. I think once or twice a month is good. Point is know your rig and how to check the oil. Don't wait/rely on the mechanic to do it. 6. Headdown deployments are fun!! Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

Sorry for the silence. I wanted to think hard real quick about the whole project before making anymore comments. We'll start discussing it next week. If you can find out, I would like to know those guys opinions. Their comments would be very helpful. But also ask others as well. Everyone's opinion is valuable to make this suceed. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

this thread reminded me a couple yrs ago there were 3 reserve failures in a short amount of time. Trying hard to remember. I think there was one each on a Raven, Dash-M, Dash-MZ(?). ZP topskin version. I think at least 2 were speed skydiving related. I'm pretty certain the Raven failed structurally during a very high speed deployment. What I am wondering is does the air get dense enough and is the change in density great enough to (guess all things being equal) make it impossible to obatin a higher max speed at 6000' than 8000'? If so then why not start slowing down 2000' higher since after 8k there really would be no more point. And if not, why not start slowing down the dive a 1000' earlier anyway. Per 1000' @ 300+mph, your freefall time is max 2.5 seconds. To an old schooler (asuming the discipline is old enough) i imagine that suggestion would sound silly and unneccasry. But on the other hand I am sure you see my point. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com

BTW, that's him in Parachutist this month on page 50 doing his first downplane with Catfish. in case your reading, thanks Nancy. that one's gonna make his day. Levin

thanks skymama. you're sweet. thanks to all of yall for yalls vibes. -->time lapse

I say launch it. No reason to put yourself in a position where you have to spend your short skydive trying to get back together. Trust me, been there pobably 100 times. A blown exit on a 10k cessna freefly jump is not a good value for the dollar. Much less 17 of them. I have about 550 cessna jumps. That's what I initially learned to freefly from. I'm not a very good sitflyer yet. I just decided for this year to go back and work on it. So I can't help you out there. For a headdown exit try two people hanging from the far end of the strut. One hanging underneath. The headcount and exit should be synchronized. The moment you both let go at the same time take a hand grip. If still worried about seperation; one person lock legs around the other. A 3rd freeflyer will also fit out on the strut and still have step clearance. This freeflyer piggbacks the freeflyer before them. A 4th stands one foot on the step. The 4th must anticipate the exit or they will be left behind. You can launch a cool 4-way headdown line from a C182. Forget to mention it to the pilot . He'll love ya for it . levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

Due to TSL this weekend the contest has been postponed again to probably sometime early October. Sorry, Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com

would the Jump-Track software show this? Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

thanks dude! And also thanks to Dan (Cyberskydiver). He's the one actually doing the worth. More work than my wallet was worth. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com

***i have my first warning altitude set at 5000 ft and go flat right away - no transitioning, no speed bleeding. full, flat track. i slow down for about 10 (?) seconds and i pitch right after i hear my second warning (3500 ft). at this moment i still travel at higher then usual speed. sometimes about 150 mph, sometimes even more. keeping going below 5000 ft is extremely foolish, so i'd say 5000 ft is my speed hard deck. speed may differ slightly at different DZ due to elevation, but 1 second hesitation before slowing down is much more significant. I have my "take a quick head count alarm set at 6500 and break-off also for 5k. This isn't quit what I meant. i got open a 100' off the ground on a base jump. It was the last one of my 3 jumps a year or so ago (I haven't quit base, just taken my time . So I totally already understand what you have just explained. What I'm wondering is at low altitude

That's what Ramon did last year. Seemed like the logical thing to do and it seemed to work well. Speed skydiving hasn't caught on very well here in Texas. Last year at least half or more of the contestants tried it in a stand. Here there really isn't anyone super knowledgeable about speed skydiving nor does anyone really appear interested enough to make it their chosen discipline. But it does make a good contest and alot of fun. Cool prizes too Since there is now a few more weeks before the contest I am going to try and increase the number of Pro-Tracks I have and follow the suggestions courage made on a previous post in this thread. If not, I'm sure the system Ramon and I used last year will work just as well this year. I suspect about 1/3 to 1/2 particpants will be belly fliers. 1/2 or more will try it in a stand. I can think of know one that I would suspect of trying to be dishonest. If a Pro-Track went crazy, everybody would know that a 400mph speed is b.s. and it would be thrown out uncontested. And at this moment the score keeper (me) doesn't remember how to fully work a Pro-Track. Probably see me still trying to get it figured out on a 5 minute call for the first load of the day.This contest is about lots of fun and lots of cool prizes. here's a question for ya. from a 14,000' jump, what do you think the lowest altitude is that you can still expect to be at your maximum speed? Is that something that can be determined by using the Jump Track software? Would MSL change that altitude? If so what do you think the lowest "speed harddeck (lack of better term)" is at sea level? Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com

Thanks to all yall for the comments!! Yoshi, if you plan to visit any other dropzones i suggest do it first. Once you get to Spaceland you may never want to leave. Maybe not even to go home. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com

thanks dude. glad to hear it. Only one thing. It's not my RF test. It's our RF test. It's everyone's RF test. the very sound of "your RF test" is the very reason why our present and hopefully past system has failed. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

It isn’t quit clear to me either, other than maybe to establish a pecking order. But apparently Olav thought of a need for it. Maybe he decided it was neccesary to fill a gap in a realm of endless possiblities. Even if the gap didn't need filling. Or maybe he did it to be D-1. And even if that is the case, who can't say they wouldn't have done the same? If politics could be removed from the AD system I bet the number of ADD holders would total around 20+. And how about 6 yrs from now? I think later on down the road could be a demand for such a license. I agree, right now it is before its time. The test aren’t all about safety. In my original post I said 1st emphasis should be on safety and 2nd on personal achievement. Safety can be demonstrated with one license. The rest such as those with 2 spaceballs are for personal achievement only. I think the first license or 2 should emphasize control and the last 2 your bag of tricks. Ted said something to the same effect. The AD test is not a test of true freeflight or total body flight. Neither is the system I am suggesting. Check out my reply to Ted on this one. This is exactly what I think the initial licenses should show. A proven degree of control where one is responsible for their actions. I think you and I are definitely on the same page. I think this is going off the AD path so I’m ceasing the use of AD in my examples/suggestions. Ramon and I discussed an alternative system awhile back. He came up with the idea of Rebel Freeflyer#’s. From here on I’m going to use RF just for fun. Tell me what you think of this. RF Beginner – (This a not a ball jump). Coach chooses either a sit stair-step, sit train or sit knee dock exit and tells the freeflyer sometime between 1 minute to jump and walking to the door. Exit has to hold for 5 seconds but does not have to be perfectly stable. Coach flies to distance of 10 feet from freeflyer. Freeflyer makes an altimeter check without loosing balance. For 12 - 15 seconds the freeflyer flies relative to the coach. During this time the coach very gradually makes small changes in the fallrate. While matching changes in the fallrate the freeflyer does not have to mirror image the coach. Instead the freeflyer demonstrates that they are aware of a change in fallrate by trying and reasonably matching the change. (It is at the coaches discretion if this requirement has been met). Coach lightly shakes freeflyers foot to check for overall stability. Freeflyer again makes an altimeter check without loosing balance. Next the freeflyer makes an in place 360 turn returning back their original heading which should be the coach. Then the freeflyer performs their choice of a flip or cartwheel. (The test is failed if the freeflyer at anytime corks, moves more than 5 feet out of place during spin and/or decelerates from camera frame during flip or cartwheel.) At 5000’ freeflyer looks all around to simulate clearing airspace, gives a waive off to the coach, turns his/her back to the coach and tracks away. (Ted suggested a non-ball jump in another post, but I don’t think this is what he had in mind.) RF Intermediate – Freeflyer & Ballmaster exit together, headdown and docked. Once off the plane and on the hill the ballmaster releases the ball in front of the freeflyer. (If the exit spins to hell then the ballmaster holds onto the ball because the freeflyer has just demonstrated he/she has no business being in the air with one). After releasing the ball the freeflyer flies head level with the ball at a distance of no more than 6 feet or 3 arms lengths. After a few seconds the freeflyer makes a 360 degree turn moving out of place no more than 3 feet. Next the freeflyer transitions to a sit staying head level with the ball. (The test is failed if the freeflyer decelerates out of frame of the camera). The freeflyer performs a controlled in place 360 turn moving out of place no more than 1 foot. The freeflyer must then perform either a flip or cartwheel in either sit or headdown. The freeflyer must be headdown, on head level and within 3 arms lengths of the ball at 6500’. At 6500’ the ballmaster waives off and retrieves the ball. When the ballmaster grabs the ball the freeflyer turns a 360 degree turn and tracks away. RF Advanced – Freeflyer spots for the test over an open uninhabited or designated area. Ballmaster sits in the door and drops the ball after double checking the spot. Freeflyer exits from camera step or rear float and may not leave the aircraft before the ball. Freeflyer must chase the ball, catch up and be within 3 feet or 1 ½ arms length and flying head level in 10 seconds. After flying relative for a few seconds the freeflyer does a controlled in place 360 turn. (The test is failed if the freeflyer moves out of place more than 1 foot). Then the freeflyer grabs the ball at chest level with 2 hands and switches the ball between them holding it in each hand for at least 1 second. Freeflyer then releases the ball back in the air. (If the ball accelerates or decelerates more than 2 feet the test is failed). As soon as the freeflyer releases the ball he/she turns a quick 360 turn staying head level (The test is failed if the freeflyer moves out of place more than 5 feet horizontally or 2 feet vertically). After the turn the freeflyer must fly to the ball head level and momentarily stop and drop to chest level. Freeflyer then taps the ball a minimum of 5 feet away from them. (Ballmaster needs to be to the side of the freeflyer when he/she taps ball). Freeflyer then flies to the ball stops momentarily and grabs it with one hand by 6000’. (Freeflyer is allowed to miss the ball once during final grab as long as the ball is knocked no more than 5 feet away). After grabbing the ball by 6000’ the freeflyer turns a 180 degree turn away from ballmaster and drives away to simulate clearing airspace before rolling over to a belly track. Freeflyer should be under open canopy by 4000’. (The test is failed if the freeflyer drops the ball during canopy opening or any portion of canopy descent; whether it be from 5 feet or 500 feet). -- > Since the RF Advanced satisfies my motive for a license that proves one is safe, anything afterwards would be for personal achievement. I’m curious what people may think the ideal number of licenses should be and their requirements. < -- RF Expert – Freeflyer exits with ball in hand in any manner he/she chooses. Freeflyer must release the ball from a sit position within 7 seconds of leaving the aircraft. Freeflyer must then perform a spin, a flip and a cartwheel both headdown and in a sit. Freeflyer may choose to perform the maneuvers either left or right and may do them in any order. To better demonstrate control the freeflyer points at the ball between each maneuver. The tip of the finger may be no more than 1 foot from the ball. Freeflyer must retrieve the ball by 5000’. (The test is failed if 1. the ball accelerates or decelerates more than 10 feet upon initial release after exit. 2. the freeflyer decelerates out of camera frame during any of the maneuvers) (The test is failed if the freeflyer drops the ball during canopy opening or any portion of canopy descent; whether it be from 5 feet or 500 feet). RF Master – Freeflyer may exit from any position outside the plane. Freeflyer gives a count and then drops from aircraft. Ballmaster waits exactly 1 second then drops the ball. Then what??? RF Pro - ?? Or are these last 2 even needed? I said that because my initial intent was to put myself and the reader in Olav’s shoes and think about how we would do things differently. There’s been a lot of talk about him on here lately and nothing really productive has come out of it. You are right. Anybody could dream this system up and Olav would have no rights to it. But the problem is making it a reality. The freefly community has to recognize and accept the system. And it has to have a demand for the licenses. The dropzones and local freefly load organizers, teams and pros have to recognize, accept and support and promote the system. It is crucial to have support from the entire community to not only make it a reality but also a success. The problem would mostly likely come from the already accomplished freefly crowd. Especially the one’s that have been around for a while. 1. The skills recognized by the licenses were achieved by this crowd ages ago. 2. A newbie cannot have a lower number. This is already a problem with the vSCR awards. I can think of 2 ways that might make it work. 1. NO NUMBERS! At most the license should look real cool, say for example Rebel Freeflyer Expert and have your name and small photo on the front. The back (except RF Beginner and Intermediate) should read something like “This freeflyer has achieved and demonstrated skills that suggest he/she is in control of their flight and safe to themselves and others” Reason I would word it this way is because I don’t know a whole lot about civil law and even though I have stated “responsible for one’s actions” several times; I don’t think it would be good if a freefly license stated something that could possibly imply that one is legally responsible for their actions in the air. Only open the sport to more lawsuits. The back should have the name of the ballmaster in print and also be signed by him/her as well maybe their USPA member or license number on a separate line. Also could include anything else such as state, home dropzone, dropzone where license was earned. Should have a line for the date issued. Not the date earned. The date earned could establish a numbering system. I also think there should be a separate signature line for a witness (never ask the pilot or dzo). Since such a high percentage of freeflyers are the ones doing the hook turns it probably wouldn’t hurt to include an emergency contact number or a known allergy such as penicillin. 2. For a new system to work it has to have support from the local advanced freeflyers at a given DZ that are on teams, load organize or serve as role models for the local freefly community. For them to support it they need a motive. I think the cost for these license test should be the same as a high dollar coach jump. Say $65 -$75, with 100% of the proceeds after slots going to the ballmaster or coach. Even though many people complain that the test are too expensive, I believe their real complaint is that all the proceeds go to one entity. I personally do not believe there is anything wrong with Olav doing that. I’ve said that in past post. Only real problem is the structure and administration of the AD system doesn’t serve the best interest of the freefly community. I believe that there is not only a demand but a need for some kind of freefly license system. I’ve spent several hours off and on thinking an typing about it. I would like to know what kind of interest there is and what the possibility is of making this happen. I think maybe I’ve thought of a simple plan that might make it work. First off I want to say that I am not using my website for any kind of personal gain nor is my interest in starting a new license system in anyway for any kind of personal gain. Hopefully everybody’s seen the freeflyers.com thread and checked out the site. I think that website really nice and professional and could be very useful for promoting a new freefly license system or Rebel Freeflyer License. And in return the new license system would help promote freeflyers.com on a much greater scale, we can’t promote a nationally recognized license on a website dedicated to one particular state. If the freefly community is interested in a new system and okay with me using freeflyers.com as the official website for it, then I will in-turn, turn freeflyers.com into a national freeflying site instead of one dedicated just to Texas. I talked to Dan last night and he said it really wouldn’t be all that hard. The hard stuff is mostly already done. Of course he would have to be compensated for his time but it wouldn’t be much for just one person to pay. A representative from each state on the site would have ability to administrate and make changes. But that is only if the freefly community would be okay with me volunteering to keep track of everything. Otherwise I like the site like it is, dedicated to Texas. And I’m currently using the site to promote and get the word out about the freefly scene in Texas in hope that more people will come visit us. Florida and Arizona aren’t the only places to go in the winter. Administering the licenses would be fairly simple. One person or organization keeps track of the records (myself). A record will be kept and constantly updated of those that qualify for license. A small number of advanced freeflyers in each state or region would be authorized to give the test. A list of those authorized would be on the website aside the list of license holders. Who authorizes someone to be able to administer this test? Answer is themselves, their local community, their friends. Everyone one of us knows if we have the skills to safely ballmaster someone else. You know it, your local dropzone knows it and your friends know it. To be an authorized test giver I think one should only have to ask. And unless they have a reputation alone that verifies their ability I think a video of them demonstrating the requirements for the RF Advanced and an endorsement from their Dropzone should be all that is required. The number of authorized test givers should not be limited to a very small number of people so that they can capitalize from it. The number of test givers for a given area needs to be small enough to keep the system simple and large enough to make the test readily available pretty much anywhere. The actual license would be sized to fit in a wallet, laminated with picture ID, cool looking and NOT numbered. The license can be distributed 2 ways, 1. onsite from the ballmaster that administered the test at the time it is given or 2. from me if a laminating machine is not available to the ballmaster at the time the test is taken. Of course I would want to be compensated for what it cost me. I’m not sure what the plastic sleeves cost but I’m thinking a dollar or 2 would cover everything including postage. Since there is no numbering system, there is no need for anybody to be in a hurry to take a test before they are ready. If someone fails a test twice in 30 days they should have to wait 90 days before they can take it again. When a freeflyer earns a new license the ball master sends in the application plus $1 or 2 fee to cover my cost. The video is not required. It is obvious by looking at this that this entire proposed new system would pretty much have to be based on an honor system. Since the ballmasters will be policed only by the freefly community in general, success of the entire system greatly depends on their being honest, following the rules and upholding the requirements for each license and not trying to use the privilege as a primary source of income. And to make it a success it needs acceptance and recognition. This part is up to each of you... I would really like to hear comments. Is there an interest in a new system? Is the system I have proposed a good one? Do we really need one? Does anybody really care? Personally I don’t think the world-class freeflying population does. Is the benefit to safety worth the possible risk of occasionally alienating new jumpers that don’t have a license? Is having a system that recognizes personal achievement worth the added bureaucratic b.s. and politics that it could potentially create (I think the absence of a numbering system will cure that)? So what do yall think? Is this project worth the trouble? Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

One benefit of having to re-schedule again is it will give me time to come up with more Pro-Tracks. Even though I personally am not that interested in speed skydiving, this thread has been very informative for me. I hope to have two Pro-Tracks for each contestant by the time the contest comes around. Which will likely be somewhere around start of October. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com

strike again. i was informed that there is a rw only tsl meet at skydive dallas this weekend. freeflyers might ask why the hell I would stop it for that? Well, because several rw people and one crw dog think they can go faster in a stand than any lawndart. And since they are looking forward to almost proving it again this year i can't deny them the opportunity. So, this weekend it is cancelled again. I'll try and have a new date for this contest next week. last year 1st place freeflyer Thomas McDow @ 292mph 2nd place bellyflyer John Rich @250mph in stand Close to 20 contestants, mostly freeflyers. Levin vSCR #17 www.freeflyers.com

I’m sure we’ve had this discussion at the DZ before but I don’t think I remember. Every time I hear “Olav” or “AD” at the DZ (usually negative comments) I grow earplugs. Freeflying = total body flight = belly, back, tracking, headdown, sit and the 3 axis’. And the 3 axis’ must be performed in all 5-body positions. I don’t think there is time enough in a skydive for all of that, much less adding a few seconds here and there to demonstrate control in the body positions. Of course it could be broken down into separate licenses but still would be an elaborate system. Such a test would be geared towards personal achievement; not safety. The 3-D Award is an excellent measure of ones skills as a freeflyer. This award shows the same control in 3 body positions that my make believe AD Intermediate shows in just one body position. Even though this award was designed for personal achievement, the difficulty in obtaining it demonstrates enough control that they probably have the skills to be responsible for their actions. Even this award does not demonstrate total body flight. Requirements include transitions but they do not require tracking, backflying, or full axis’. Problem with this award is that it requires 2 other people to obtain it. If there are no 2 other available people able to do it then you can’t readily obtain it regardless of wether you have the skills or not. Another problem with this award is that it does not require proof of achievement. The door is open to dishonesty and unfortunately it has already happened (please do not ask me to comment on that because I won’t). What if the ADB required 3 transitions headdown and 3 in a sit? ---> Off topic real quick. I’m watching discovery channel while I write this. They just showed a skydiver named Ken that hurt himself on a hook turn. To show the whuffo world what a hook turn is, the Discovery channel showed an animation of one. The animated parachutist did a hard 180 degree hook turn with a round canopy.

Although few, this thread has gotten some very good responses. If taken seriously it sounds like something productive could possibly come out of this discussion. Wrongway, this reply has a couple of good points. I know where you are coming from. I’m not disagreeing because I think you’re wrong. I think both of us are right and wrong. I disagree with you because of my own personal motive for suggesting a change in the system, or as some others have suggested, a new system in general. That motive is safety. That’s why in my initial post I said one that 1st places an emphasis on safety and 2nd on achievement. Personally I could care less about a license that shows you can do tricks. But a license that says I’m safe & responsible for myself, that if I cause a collision it’s not an accident; it’s my fault. A license that says, if you let me on you’re skydive I will not kill you. I guess I should say I am looking at this from a load organizer’s perspective. I think the requirements for the initial license should be as I stated. --->The skills can be demonstrated by chasing the ball from the plane and catching up to it in a reasonable amount of time, say 10 seconds. After reaching the ball the freeflyer should fall relative to the ball on head level within arms reach for a few seconds before initiating a controlled close proximity 360 degree carve. Next a 2-hand grip, hand switch and release with one hand. Then a tap and chase followed by a one-hand grip before 6500'.

Wasn't working for me either but it is now. Earlier msn.com said server too busy. working fine now as well. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

or even on days when the weather is great and everybody starts drinking at 5 because they can't wait for the beer light to come on. But of course they go to the other side of the street onto the golf course (50 or so yards away) which is legally off the property. Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com

or even crappy weather all weekend but then the clouds disperse Sunday around 4 or 5. Everybody has already given up and left the DZ and you know they're not coming back. Levin vSCS#3 www.freeflyers.com

Some of you may know that I purchased Freeflyers.com a little over a year ago. A domain like that I do not believe should be used for one's personal use. I decided to dedicate it to freeflying in Texas. It has been an ongoing project for somtime but is now nearing completiton. Dan Chisolm also known as CyberSkydiver on Dropzone.com has been building the site. He writes his on code, so everything is original with the excepton of a few images donated from Aerialfusion.com and clustermaster.com. This site is all about freeflying in Texas. In the near future the visuals button on the tool bar will be moved to the side bar box. Picture galleries will be categorized and only accesible on appropriate pages. In the visuals page place on the toolbar will be a bigways page. The rotating dropzone logos on the side box will soon point to dropzone pages on the freeflyers.com website. Most dropzone websites are student oriented. The dropzone pages on freeflyers.com will be oriented towards the experienced jumpers (mainly freeflyers). Pages will show facilites both inside and out as well as freefly schools, available coaching and load organizing as well as annual events and a link to local weather. Their will be pages dedicated to each major annual freefly event such as Sky Fest, Spaceland's Flyfree Festival and Grav Rats Freefly Revolution as well as others. As of right now you can find a few local teams, list of events, announcements, leagues and results, vSCR history and requirements and whose got their numbers, plus a few pictures. If you have time please check it out. Now is a good time for feedback and ideas and I would appreciate any that anybody has to offer. You may use the contact page or email me at aerodeofreefly@hotmail.com. However I think responses to the post would be most productive. Thanks in advance. www.freeflyers.com Levin vSCR#17 www.freeflyers.com