Trae

in reply to "And they found that for the most part, participation followed a seven year curve, after which most participants moved on to something else in their lives. The article also pointed out that high adventure sports all had their hardcore cases, who were the movers and shakers who kept the sport going and made innovations, and that their commitment was for life. " ............................................. It appears that a lot of intructors out-grow the job. Highly experienced professional skydivers need another step of threee in their career paths. Other than opening your own DZ () there's little to do but lump it , move around or move on. flight of fancy-- DZO's could be required to employ through an agency that was controlled by the employees themselves. There could be a tiered wage system eg more experienced = more pay. The best interests of its members ie the employees, instructors would be its main aim . Such an agency could also provide workers with access to international jobs and provide some degree of job continuity and security. This could take the employment power out of the DZO's hands and ensure that they couldn't employ the nasty little hungry inexperienced scabs that prevail at most DZ's. There could also be a public safety issue here. If the public is paying good money for this dangerous game they're usually gonna want the best service they can get not just the 'maggots on the block'.

in reply to "Is there a chance, when you have a bag-lock or a streamer, that the drag created will not be enough to detach the raisers from the harness? " ......... Sure there's a chance and it does happen. Even a release hesitation can cause problems ..especially if the first riser to go activates a RSL. During a malfunction it is possible to have your wits about you enough to ensure both risers have released before reserve deployment( barring RSL roulette ). Often it will be obvious. It has been known for people to 'help' the 3rings let go if they stick a bit . My two bag locks stood me up a bit ..,most liklely cause I looked up. You feel like you're going faster and in a stand up under a bag-lock I'd guess you would be. of course simple solution for most 3ring release probs ..regular 3ring maintenance

in reply to "so do you guys reccomend buying all used gear as a first rig, or used gear and a new container? if i buy new container, will i eventually need to downsize it, or will the downsized canopies fit in the original container? when you say "down a size" how big is that? is 10 sq ft considered a "size" .................. Good 2nd hand's the go . If you don't damage it too badly you can pass it on 3rd hand. There's no big rush to downsize. After you've got some skills on the intermediate stuff you can demo newer canopies at your leisure before you buy . By then you'll really know what you want. Downsizes? say 230- 200- 170- 150- 135- 120 - 110- 100- 90...etc as a rough guide.

in reply to ".....every time I even think about it, all I can see is myself getting hurt or worse." ........................................ Might be time for a more positive mind-set. You could try replacing the getting hurt bit with visualising yourself doing just fine and having heaps of fun.

Getting a replacement closing-loop in boogie bags is a top safety idea. A good supply of the little washers can be helpful too.

in reply to "I think so. Handles plus other stuff was $400. " .............................. Sounds ott .....close to the price of a 2nd hand canopy or old rig even.

in reply to "Scenario: Person just off student status (20-jumps) rents gear from gear store at DZ. Main is unpacked when received by new jumper. New jumper brings gear to packing mat. New jumper goes on skydive with instructor at DZ and gets a video. Hard pull occurs with rented gear. Instructor comes down, inspects gear, and confirms gear to be unacceptable to jump. New jumper loses handles and other gear during the jump. Who should be covering cost of replacing the gear? " ......................................... This is like the cold hard side of skydiving ..dollars and danger mixed up with inexperience and incident. Bummer about the handles and gear (freebag was it?) If nothing else some of the replies here show just how strongly some feel about accepting personal responsibility. I barrel- rolled a hang-glider into the ground during student training and pretty well fully bent it. Didn't cost me a cent and no hurt either. Still get a good laugh every time I think about it. Ha ha the instructor was a jerk and shouldn't have pushed me so far so fast. He paid for his mistake. My responsibility? Na. Oh !ALWAYS! check your pin and p/c it really is too easy. Next thing you're checking others as well.

in reply to "Me and another guy think that not only would they know a plane entered illegally, they would also be able to tell that someone or something jumped/fell out of it and track his progress to the ground. But then again the Special Forces use this type of method to get behind ememy lines without detection so maybe he could get away with it. Maybe he wouldn't show up until the chute opened and there was a bigger profile? " .................................................... Seems like the correct answer here could be a national security issue. After reading this thread it seems likely that radar can more effectively detect a skydiver and their canpoy if they are covered in dust and insects just like for air -pressurised or not. A very clean bug free skydiver may be radar invisible.?? It's my guess that todays radar could be callibrated to count the coins in your pocket ....if so required......maybe.

in reply to "I know every DZ probably has one of these guys... But we're just wondering if anyone has some good ideas as to how you can get rid of "THAT GUY" at the DZ??? You know the one who lies about his skydiving accomplishments, the one who talks peoples ears off about the dumbest sh*t no one wants to hear about, the guy whos dangerous in the air and has had a couple close calls he WILL NOT admit to, the guy who will do and say anything to try and make himself feel wanted, and of course the guy who virtually NEVER leaves!!! PLEASE HELP US GET RID OF "THAT GUY!!!" Your comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks " ........................................... yeah that guy sucks especially when he's grossly over weight , a total drunk and is in charge. I'd prefer to get rid of the type that is constantly saying negative things (usually behind people's backs) about others.ie the mockers. You know the type , the type that trades on putting others down. but provides nothing in return. Sometimes the nerdy devil we know is heaps better than the 'oh so cool' demon we don't .

in reply to "Are some people getting complacent or is it just a statistical spike?"....The second "falling out of the harness" incident, though, is unforgivable. ................... "If it happens once its an accident, twice it's a coincidence , three times it's a crime against the state." Hill Street Blues taught me something

in reply to "the audible and electronic altimeters offer so much information about the skydive, however, I'm sure that a lot of people are probably relying on them too much and therefore, that advance in technology, in my opinion is beginning to hurt the sport more than it is helping it. What are some other peoples take on this? ............ Like some-one said complacency can really get you dead in this sport. It builds up over time. Scaredy cats turn into cool cats ....& sometimes freezin cold cats. AAD's and audibles might speed this effect along for some. I personally believe that a slight over emphasis on electronica has been indirectly responsible for some fatalities. People that wouldn't have previously skydived now happily can with their psychological AAD aids on board. Not all bad but not all good either. one negative poss is the tendency for people to go too far too soon thinking they can rely on the leetle robot. This can get low experienced people into some hairy situations pretty quickly. In the 80's it was like some-one bounced every weekend ...cause of death...impact. (often an apparent loss of height awareness was a contributing factor.) now it's more like lowturn fatalities or 2out aad driven incidents , fairly rare occurances in the slow ol' pre electronic days. In general I feel that the gadgets are a good thing and have saved more lives than they've hurt. What would save some more lives is more looking around during a skydive and on the ride to height. ie situational awareness. So many seem lost in their little world when there is a huge 3D panorama in all directions. it's the one you don't see that gets ya. (so I'm told)

Mega Butt buster...'Rooting Lion, Squealing Human'

"HARDER"

9cell or 7cell = , There are so many different canopies with different characteristics you really do need to do a fair bit of research to get some straight answers. 9cells are still the general trend but 7cells are coming back in favour . Some modern 7 cells have very good performance without the same malfunction issues as some HP 9cell twisters. Skydivers still don't really trust their lives to 9cells as their reserves are mainly 7cells. in reply to "Geez why the hell do people have to get snotty on here and mean as if they're ( the greater one)" .......................................... Ask JESUS.

in reply to "If these animals only exterminated each other without actually killing human beings, who would actually worry that much about gang violence? It would become a self regulating problem by keeping their population down with little or no risk to people. " .............................. If that all works in your hometown then yo'all can try sellin' it round the world. I just luv seeing genocidal capitalism in its infancy

in reply to 'We have our competitions already." ......................................... Perhaps there's room in the sky and the future for the .............'AerOlympics.' for all the left out newish airpowered sports.

in reply to "You new guys trust gizmos so much that you don't even bother to double-check the facts for yourself. You don't even look at the ground - you just wait for an electronic beep in your ear to tell you the alititude. You're like Pavlov's dogs: green light comes on - you respond like a robot without thinking. " ...................................................... This is too true. If you don't wear an AAD you may very well need one to protect you from people who do . What's next... full body armour ? Hope so

in reply to "My thoughts: You will never see skydiving in the Olympics in your lifetime. Their effort is on sports that do not need 'devices' and an airplane definitely qualifies. " ........................................................... Does this make it more likely that BASE jumping will get a look in before skydiving ? Still uses devices but no aircraft. Can be entertaining as a spectator sport. Some disciplines are fairly athletic / gymnastic. Relatively affordable allowing for 'level playing field' competition. Apart from the landings skydiving doesn't cut it as a spectator sport . Too insular , too self possessed, too invisible. The financial side kinda disadvantages a lot of people from poorer countries making the idea of competition just too lop-sided = unfair.

in reply to "The compromise truth my mind sees now is some laughing senior Islamics that send out their most marginal agents with a harebrained scheme that would never work, but didn't need to. The terror results have been achieved. " ............................................ yep .. a foiled pommie plot involving world domination = increased security over the whole world. ... so what else is new the last 400 years.. It was a European crusade regime change mentality from the dark ages that started this whole middle eastern thing after all... The capitalist world is looking pretty fascisto lately in its reactionary stance. Ooh a terrorist plot ... lets make the world a police state......DUR.. As capitalists perhaps it would be better to see the increased chance of making a dollar and having a laugh rather than getting all het up about a set of liquid bombs that didn't go off or even get made. Next after banning liquids on aircraft...???? well you CAN make explosives into fabrics and plastic type objects of all descriptions....exploding sunglasses any-one??? So we can't take on hand luggage - here's an opportunity for capitalism to provide travelling kits at destinations providing all the little things in carry-on laggage. We could take traveling light to its logical conclusion which is carry NO luggage at all. If we could easily get everything we want at the destination , pre-ordered or otherwise , then it's almost problem solved.

in reply to "All this proves is that we have one person in each of Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, and Perth who are jerking off in front of their computer whilst dreaming about BASE Jumping, Skydiving and meeting some person they want to have sex with. They have no real chance of achieving any of these. " .................................................. There you go giving away little ozzie secrets. Did you know???........... in Australia for the age group from 23 to 35 there are twice as many blokes as sheilas. (newspaper source) (Something to do with too much toxic soap.) This accounts for the current 'everythings gay ' obsession doing the rounds with some Ozzie young blokes....especially in the big cities.

in reply to "I am buying a new Jump suit and complete system and I need an openion from all of you on the colors" ................................................................. Definitely go high visibility. That means bright colours contrasting the sky/ground. ie blue/green/grey contrasts = orange, red, (white) Some colours when placed together set up a high vis contrast against each other eg purple & yellow. Don't hold back ...go flouro even. Being easy to see will decrease your collision risk. .... Bright colours look more cheerful over the death warmed up and hard to see dark colours. lighter colours are less effected by UV as well.

in reply to "I think hook knives are a little over-rated.I mean if your not doing CRW you don't need the most expensive best knife out there.I think they're getting to fancy. Just get a knife that you don't have to spend to much money on. They all work. " ............................................................. This type of 'anything goes' attitude can get a young bloke injured or dead pretty quick in skydiving. Anyone brought up on cheap tools knows they always break when you need 'em. If you want to carry a knife carry the best one you can. Jack the rippers are still a good size to find and hold . Watch the smaller ones .. too fiddly in an emergency . Like with other EP's practice makes perfect.

in reply to "Jumping a BASE rig from aircraft in the US is not just illegal, but stupid, and harms our sport. I'm putting this in General Skydiving for a reason, and that is to educate skydivers who may not know this important fact. " ................................................................. Mmmm....... yep this looks like common sense in the skydiving world. However .. gear design differences give the BASE gear some serious advantages over a skydiving reserve. A BASE jumper ( terminal opening ) is in a similar situation to a skydivier that has had a high speed mal. They are both relying on one parachute for their next beer. It could be argued that the BASE rig is safer in this situation given its specific design advantages over a skydiving reserve. Skydivers rely heavily on that one last parachute too but perhaps with more faith ( in their rigger ). A BASE jumper relies on their own usually meticulous packjob. My question is.... is it any less reasonable to rely on a well packed canopy as a skydiving reserve or as your only canopy on a BASE jump.? Skydivers rely very similarly on that ONE last canopy.

in reply to "I know that hook turns and swooping will never be banned or outlawed." .................. I reckon its fair enough to consider extra regulations regarding hook turns & swooping given the persistently stupid injury record. It'll be a good day when our sport finally says a collective 'enough is enough' and takes some positive action. eg swoop licence requirement., HP canopy licence requirement, part-time swoop bans as per DZSO. Newbie canopy pilots and a lot of skydivers just don't get it. They tend to see such regulatory ideas as a restriction rather than good guidance. Perhaps they haven't seen the trail of injury and death. If current landing injury rates are acceptable then it sucks for our sport and is an indicator of an uncaring, ineffective regulatory body. Surely we've learnt something from all those years of ZP. The constant combination of high speed , tight landing areas and inexperience regularly produces the now expected incidents. Some people even seem to think it HAS to be that way. Sure.. ground the dangerous psycho swoopers but encouragement and training works better for most of us. Who's got the power ? Who's got the inclination? CI's, DZSO"s Who's responsible? The babes in the woods or the wolves taking the $$$$ . If it's the wolves then it'll be more of the same.

in reply to "How will it end? Seriously, how will it end????? " ...................................... As if it will Middle east conflicts traditionally mutate into long years of relative peace under totalitarian rule after long years of war reduce the male population below critical mass. The most cunning & ruthless meglamaniacs survive to subjugate the masses and spread their genes. Injustices create dissent and when enough alpha males are reproduced off it goes again. eg .......history The solution here ??? Perhaps a wholesome alternative to oil as the fuel of choice could help make the middle east conflict irrelevant to most of us. Sideling the religious zealots ( ie current leaders on both sides) seems like a helpful ploy as well. Rather than a 'war on terror' how about a 'war on intolerance.' Just a passing thought but do you think the 'tewwawists' would use their first nuke on the good guys or each other.? I bet they test it on their dearest & nearest .........