Anvilbrother

It's a fucking shit show, and we're all being showered in feces by the president, the lobbyist, and the other branches of government. Safer form of transport Dozens of these pipelines already exist. We already get that type of evil oil in the us already It's gonna get here anyhow The president is acting like a fucking kid and despite being shown all the reasons it should happen, or that this level of stonewalling isn't necessary he still doubles down like a kid caught in a lie just to stick it to the republicans. Has every pipeline from Canada had to have the presidents ok? Why is this one different? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

I understand your saying of if they are only killing 25,000 a year why try to end it with 500,000 military and civilian deaths, but we are implying that it will get worse, spread, and eventually be in your back yard if we do not do something, and that is their mission statement, and if you look a map of their progression its absolutely true so far. Gotta look at the future, as well as the present. It still fucking sucks that people are still shrugging off this type of murders like meh, its not that many. Yea your right about the camps, but missing the point which is why I bring up the question why didn't they see the problem developing early before it got to a world war level and dealt with it. Which is the question I am bringing up here about the ISIS types. When is enough, enough. Will our children look back and go WTF why did you not take care of this earlier before it eventually became WW3? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Well it worked like a charm on Japan..... Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Im not sure about nukes, or killing everyone is the answer, but I will say baring outside assistance(looking at you Russia) the middle east does not stand a chance against our modern military when it is unleashed and free to roam about the country at will. I believe that the guarded ROE, and super PC war kills more soldiers in the middle east than a traditional war would. Especially if we could engage at will with modern technology eliminating the need for as many boots. Let bombs, A10's and tanks do the major work. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

In the op talked about a couple hundred, and I posted this link, but I will show you again. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2014.htm In 2014 I roughly calculated a couple thousand murders, the total since 9/11 is over 25,000. Sure it might not the huge numbers that your saying spoon related accidents are, but this is over 25,000 murders. And the whole point of this is when do you say when? 25,000 murders, 250,000 murders, 2.5 million murders. Hitler opened the Dachau concentration camp in March 1933, although it did not hold many jews at that time after the Nuremberg race laws were institutionalized in 1935 many jews were in those camps. It wasn't until 1939 that Britain, France, Australia, New Zealand, India and South Africa declare war on Germany. Soon after we all know what happened. I say that to mention that it did not start with a bang, but slowly built up over time and no one did anything about it until it was out of control, and ended up in a world war. I simply restate the question. When is enough, enough, and at what point do we try to come up with a lasting solution and enact that plan no matter the cost to eliminate this virus from the earth. Our previous actions in the area did nothing, and the one I fear we are about to enter in will also do nothing. It is not the response that you need to fix the region IMO. I say quit throwing a couple gallons of water on a house fire for it to only flare back up again. Either put it out or let it burn. If you chose to let it burn hopefully it does not spread and burn down the entire town(Europe). Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Ok I have got to run, I will be back around 1700 Central time, thanks for following along, and please keep up the discussion.

Ok fair enough I did not read it that way but I understand now. So we were attacked by Al-Qaeda and you say that is a justification, but did we defeat them? Do they not still exist? Is ISIS not the worst part of Al-Qaeda that was forced to split off last Feburary? So in fact we are still fighting those responsible for 9/11 and they are worse now than 2001. I understand that, and its the question I also initially asked, why did we wait so long to stop Hitler from all the atrocities he was doing. Thats the sort of questions im asking. Wendy your not helping I want you to tell me these anwers. And if we do finally reach a world initiate to finally end the problem this will be the same situation, once again your stating what I am, but in a better worded way :). I even brought up the security treatys after WW2 and how the will not apply here due to what we are saying. Im asking for answers, first when do you go in is the main one, and how would you deal with the end? Ok thanks, so you want an identifiable enemy, and for someone to initiate the action, and have us as an ally. Obviously were not experts, and cant answer perfectly how to win or what would you do as an exit strategy, but we can all say when we would be finally fed up, and what it would actually take for us to give the green light on a plan that would work. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Fair enough, and I like where this is all going. So why hasnt the UN done anything substantial? Knowing how pussy footed they are with their sanctions, and resolutions. What does it take to get a UN to call for a stop to all the bullshit in the middle east. You cant just go after an "ISIS" type, about half way to whipping their ass they disband, go in hiding, and come out with another name, or split into half a dozen other chicken shit organizations. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

I agree, but is there a better approach with more land and better boundaries, and enforcement. Having Israel and Palestine smashed next to eachother, and only having them and the UN dealing with it is not a good example. Once again the how to part of this is not my main point, we can discuss what might work and why it probably wont, but my question is when would you be ok with finally doing whatever it took to fix the region, and stop the mass murders, beheading, burnings, and shootings? What circumstances would trigger your button. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Read up a couple of posts, I have thrown out a few ideas that I am SURE will not work, but just spitballing them because that is not the intent of this discussion. I am asking when would you finally give the green light. When ISIS/Boko/etc migrates to europe? Half a million people burned or beheaded? Another actual attack on US soil like 9-11 that was verified to be done by ISIS? I understand the hows and whats after are not easy, or will never be effective, but at what point would you be ok with the world finally coming together and saying fuck this has to end now. So far its been, America, and a few others in limited numbers(not knocking anyone's contribution or deaths, just comparing it to a world war type initiative). Im gathering you(and I) would be ok if someone actually came up with an exit strategy. Say someone does have a solid plan, do you go now, or wait till the above mentioned happens? Like I said before its all about when would you finally be ok with some type of extreme action possibly a world war? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Agreed, and that is what I have also asked further down a few posts. Would a WW3 type war work in completely stabilizing the area(complete wiping out of bad guys) then carving up the area(new countries) and dividing it up equally for the remaining players, then enforce it. Or could you try before any war and have all the countries of the world uniting together and dividing the area up and basically tell them this is your country now, live in it or get bombed. I know its simplistic, but attempts at a technical approach to salvaging the area multiple times has never worked long term. Again under this discussion im assuming that terrorism like ISIS is not going to get better on its own, and will spread through the world killing hundreds of thousands before someone eventually says no. My question is when? Who and how can be thrown out there, but an answer that you can give is when would you be fed up with it, and finally be ok with a global initiative to ending terrorism in the middle east. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Agreed, and dont take me wrong im talking about a WORLD wide initiative, not another gulf war with the U.S doing all the work. Ok thanks for the thought out reply. So answer me this right now we have multiple active and effective terrorist groups in the middle east spreading through countries, and expanding, death tolls in the thousands, and they are expanding attacks not just to the middle east but attacks like CH in France. As Ryoder stated countries with Millions of active duty troops in the middle east right now are solving the problem? No. Well if we do not step up because they are not attacking actual Americans which in part I agree with, how do we spur these fuck nuts to step up and deal with it themselves. As sad as it is even if you do get them to fight I do not believe they will be effective in the type of actions it would take to finally solve the problem. We see how quickly the Iraq security forces surrender and throw down their guns. Final question before I have to get back to packing up things(were trying to get the house ready to sell). Could you be effective in carving up the area into a half a dozen countries, dividing it equally amongst the Shia, Sunni, and the other major waring factions and tell them look this is your area now. Take it and quit your bullshit, or you will be bombed off of the face of the earth. Sort of an ultimatum to them all tell them this is how it is going to be. And not from an American standpoint. All the countries outside of the middle east standing up and saying this to them. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Agreed and I am not saying that we go at this alone or be the first or whatever, think bigger, when is the world as a whole going to get fed up with this shit, and do something? How many people need to die in the middle east before someone does something. You brought up 3million active duty people around that region, why have they not stepped up? And if its shown they never step up and the bad players in the middle east continue to murder by the thousands who will? When will you be ok with the world and America stepping up and ending the problem for good. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

So who is going to go "first"? Why have they not "gone first", how many people need to die to go in and be "the first" Agreed that is why I am saying these small war efforts like we have done since the 90's have not been effective. This makes no sense. So you sit quietly while untold numbers of people are beheaded and burned alive so the "first" people can go in and then you can come in and "rescue" them. Why wait to salvage your reputation as the ones that did not start the fight, but helped end it?? I politely asked that this kind of talk be kept from this thread. The "war" in this area militarily, and on a humanitarian level have been going on for far longer even before we were involved in the 90's. Your looking to closely at ISIS, and that might have been my bad for mentioning them alot, but I am talking about the region as a whole from Israel through past Pakistan, and all bad players in the area from ISIS down the list. You never answered any of my questions. Would a world war type action work in the middle east? Would a war that includes mass killings of whoever it takes to wipe out the bad guys, and some sort of restructuring of actual countries and physical borders to separate them and enforce those borders work? When does the world come together and finally try to fix this? Im not suggesting America does anything on their own, think bigger, when is the world gonna get ready and end the trouble in the region? And on your personal level, when would you be ready? Hasn't enough already happened? What would you tell the families of the 24 beheaded men, the pilot burned alive? Sorry some more people need to be killed before its worth our trouble? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

I agree, and I would like to add I am not war mongering, and if we had a magic switch that would be my first option, but I believe. -Trouble in this area isnt going away. -It will spread. -It will take more lives. -It cannot be fought with politically correct means, you will have to go beyond what we have been doing for the past 10+ years and enter into a world war sized, and tactic type action. -Eventually someone, or all of us will have to finally deal with it for good. What I fear is when we finally take the BIG initiative to end the middle east a player like Russia will see it as a perfect time to do something stupid. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Please for god sakes dont start with the bush/obama shit on this.(billvon could you please keep those type of blame comments away /shudder) I dont think too many people here would disagree that WW2 was justified despite the cost of war. The Holocaust by Hitler, and the Nazi party, and Pearl harbor by japan. http://www.wsj.com/articles/islamic-state-kidnaps-scores-of-syrian-christians-1424771194 Today its being reported that ISIS has kidnapped up to and over 90 christian civilians, this just on the heels of the beheading of over two dozen egyptians, the burning of the pilot, suicide bombings, mass murders and hundreds of other attacks. Below is an ongoing list of attacks by them alone. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2014.htm How long do you wait before you decide enough is enough? Looking back Hitler's aims were to expand and included the extermination of whole races and religious groups in the establishment of an empire. The Islamic State, too, aims to spread, exterminate and take over Europe first, and the world. It is true hitler killed more people, but just give ISIS time. If it were an isolated island like say Australia one could possibly say meh, they are just killing each other, we have tried to fix it, and they are bound to the island with no way to spread to other parts of the globe lets just ignore it, but this is simply not true. At some point you cannot just ignore it. What is that point for you? A hundred thousand civilians dead, a million? How many regions, or countries overthrown? As we sit here thousands of miles away you feel safe to say aww fuck it ISIS is not attacking me at my starbucks let someone else handle it, but for those nearer like today in Syria and those tomorrow closer but still farther away like France, England, what do you say to them? I always look back and say to myself how the FUCK did the world not see what Hitler was doing before it got to the level of murder and corruption that it did before anyone realized it and stepped in. I sort of think that it is that time for us on ISIS and the middle east. We know what type of military action we have done in the past doesnt work for this type of enemy. We are not fighting enemies under a state name with uniforms like we did in WW2. We also know trying to fight a politically correct war with minimal civilian casualties, super stringent ROE only allows the enemy to play the game and drag out the conflict until we leave. We also know since we are fighting a enemy that is not formally under a country like Japan, or Germany protections at the end of the war such as in the Treaty of Versailles, the Treaty of San Francisco, and Security Treaties will not be effective. The enemy will simply run and hide, and come back another day, just like we are seeing in Mosul. Will a WW3 type war end this type of enemy? At what point do you say countries of the world, lets eliminate all of this, band together and engage in the type of war that will finally eliminate this threat, and divide the area up where we can finally have stability. The people of the world have gotten soft physically, and in a war mentality. Do we have the guts anymore to stop being politically correct, and realize people of all types military, civilian, terrorist will all die in mass numbers to finally get this fixed. Say it takes a million deaths, well if you wait long enough you might get that million on its own in the form of ISIS hostages. So at what point do you say enough is enough? I guarantee you grammar issues so don't even start with that also. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

OK Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

I responded to the post YOU made..... With this...... Pretty fucking on point if you ask me. I was responding TO you ABOUT your post. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Not to mention the married doctor. How many lashes or hail Mary's must one give themselves for looking at the privates of another persons spouse in the ER? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Every time you guys address grammar instead of the topic you lose the debate with a big L . Not to mention the terms Feaux News, Republitard, and a host of other amazon key words that make the poster sound like a blood boiling feminist that was just triggered by a man complimenting a hot woman. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

It dont matta, the fact that peeps here would ratha point out a grammar mizz-steak instead of addressing tha topic shows how childish they arez. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

This is via your link. So Obama is smart enough to know we need to leave 10,000 troops to stabilize the area, but decides getting reelected is a better option. Troops leave, area gets worse, now Obama decides to go back into a hotter area with our kids.. Awesome Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

So obama is a fucktard warmonger for going back in your saying then got it. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

Checked again. Yep its true I believe it Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

What a circlejerk this place has become. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,