Zennie

Yes. And the people who killed my family should be prosecuted for murder. Oh, and you should be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit murder if you or your organization had anything to do with it. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Ummm... maybe because I oppose them and their policies? It's not like this sort of thing hasn't happened before. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Of course you don't. That's the "secret" part I'm referring to... - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Yep. That's what free speech is all about. The right to express your opinion. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Again, yes I have also read it, and I totally freaked when I read it. And again, yes there are specific examples of it being used for non-terrorism purposes when it was initially advertised as being strictly for terrorism purposes. Yes, government snooping bothers me. It should bother you too. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Well, you twisted it a bit by going over there. What we're talking about is what's going on here. Either way, the Libertarian in me would say, "Yes, that is your right as a human." I'd prefer you say them here, where it might cause political change, but if you went over there, that is your choice and your right. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Trent, the trend of increased government surveillance doesn't bother you? Honestly? I don't have anything to hide either, but Jesus, where does it stop? Especially when people who oppose it are labelled "un-American"? That's not freedom, that's fascism. Do you really think our Founding Fathers would approve of this? - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

And nothing in there, or Patriot II bothers you? I just want to be clear on that. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

And who never read it. Riddle me this... if the act is so innocuous as you imply, why is there so much opposition to it? - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Sure, folks have the right to say that... but do you really think saying oppsition to an administration == opposition to America is healthy or accurate? - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Trent, this is what I'm going off of... I interpreted that as saying we should not oppose what the administration is doing because terrorists might be encouraged to act again. If I'm wrong in my interpretation, I apoligize, but that's the way I read it. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Yes, it appears you enjoy being told what to think rather than thinking for yourself. If you're too lazy to click on the multiple links I provided, and would rather be spoon-fed propaganda, I can't help you. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Umm, those links I posted weren't just for the heck of it. I recommend you go READ them and figure it out yourself. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

No. Why don't you go and try and figure out how I didn't. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

You're joking right? If you choose to stick your head in the sand and question nothing, so be it. The Act authorizes the issuance of secret surveillance subpoenas and you think our government is NOT going to use that? Don't patronize me. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

About individual ones, I don't... because this Act makes it a crime to reveal that one was issued. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

And you DON'T have a problem with US CITIZEN'S being held indefinitely, uncharged, incommunicado, without access to an attorney merely because our administration decides to label them "enemy combatants"? This is all fine & dandy with you? - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Oh, I forgot about those pesky secret subpoenas too. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Do you enjoy the federal government knowing what books you read at the library? Or snooping into your bank accounts? This is OK with you?... as a "conservative" of course. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

And then of course, good old John Ashcroft said the Patriot Act would ONLY be used for the purposes of combating terrorism. Right? Wrong. Lies. This administration is all lies. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Oh, and here's another one in case one wasn't good enough... - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Sure. Try here for starters. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Heya Jeff. I really wish folks who oppose GWB would stick to the important things.... what's going on NOW.... than still dwell on the 2000 election. I followed that whole saga quite a bit and by most reasonable standards (and Gore's standard, which was pretty ridiculous IMHO) GWB legitimately won the election. I'm OK with that. I'm also OK with having voted for him at the time, because at the time GWB presented himself as a moderate, a unifier, a consesus-builder. Then he sold his soul to the far right. GWB should be fired because he lied. He lied about how he was going to run this government. He lied about getting this government out of my personal life. He lied about running this government in a fiscally responsible manner. He lied about improving upon the Clinton administration's sorry foreign policy record (which now seems brilliant in comparison). He lied about the reasons for which we went to war with Iraq. It was terrorism... no, it was WMD... no, it was to free the poor, oppressed, Iraqi people... no, wait, it was terrorism.... This is an administration founded upon lies, moral agendas and cronyism. THIS is why GWB must be fired. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Trent, you can't possibly be saying that we should mindlessly accept what this current administration is doing in the interest of public safety. That those of us who oppose what is happening in Iraq, and who feel lied to by this administration, should remain silent and not express our displeasure. The mindset of the current "conservative" movement is very disturbing to me. They are willing to accept SERIOUS encroachments on our liberty, label any opposition as "unpatriotic" and just generally ignore the most massive expansion of government, both in terms of fiscal policy as well as the expansion of the police state, in modern memory. This is about as ANTI-Republican, if the Republican party is truly the party of small government, as I can conceive. I'm a big believer in individual liberty. I'm a believer that government is a necessary evil which should only exist for the purpose of ensuring that nobody encroaches on anybody else's right to live as they choose. This is why I voted Republican in the past. But after seeing what the current Republican establishment currently stands for.... pushing their moral agenda on the populace, spending MY money like drunken sailors, starting wars overseas for dubious political and personal reasons... I joined the Libertarian party. Like Jeff, I have heretofore voted straight Republican... hell I voted for GWB. And like Jeff I'll be voting for John Kerry for one reason and one reason only... to get GWB and his cronies out of office. For me to vote Democrat, things have to be really, REALLY bad. I believe our current adminstration is that bad. Actually, it's even worse, I believe our current administration is dangerous. If people just step back for a second and analyze what has gone on in the past few years, how one can call themselves a conservative and still support this administration is absolutely astounding. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Anybody know if any of these shots have Robert's new tracking pants? I've been really wanting to see what they look like. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon