idrankwhat

You’re right. If The US would invade it would make the people fight for there home. Iranians traditionally have strong pride and would make a deal with the devil to not become another occupied land. Of course they would. That's why you're only reading about a so-called invasion of Iran in the media, and nowhere else. mh . But is it the media's fault that they repeat the calls for war made by our public officials? Sometimes the saber rattling is actually done on the deck of one of nine US ships just off the coast of Iran. I could see how some people might get the impression that the administration was considering it.

Given that the Arab world doesn't act as one, and have a history of killing off leaders that act to compromise with Israel, it is asking a lot to expect Israel to make all the concessions and hope that the Arabs will act in kind. Use the word "illegal" as much as you like, but it doesn't really mean anything. If Israel really wants peace, as they say they do, then they need to take whatever olive branch is presented as an opportunity to start negotiations. If, on the other hand, they don't feel like they've gotten all the land that want, then they continue doing what they've been doing. And I use the term "illegal" because they're violating numerous international laws. That's what makes it "illegal". We invaded Iraq for much less. Also, refusing peace talks because of the notion of "I don't know if they'll go for it" is guaranteed to prevent any peace. And no one is asking for Israel to "make all of the concessions". That's not how compromise works.

UN resolution 242 aside, Israel is STILL, to this VERY DAY stealing land.

Leave the territories that they're illegally occupying and expanding. That would be a nice start. Israel does actually have internationally recognized borders. Respecting them would be a step in the right direction. I don't think that's good enough for Darius and other muslims. The fact that they are an internationally recognized legitimate nation doesn't matter to them. They want Israel completely out of the Middle East - driven into the sea. You're reducing your argument to extremist talking points. The 2002 Arab Peace Initiative proposed that they would recognize Israel as a state if Israel would leave it's illegal occupation and return to the 1967 borders, along with the Palestinians right of return. Will that be the end result of a peace negotiation? No. but it's a place to start. Israel has to want to start negotiating. And do you know where the "drive them into the sea" talking point comes from? It's because that's precisely what the Israelis did to 150,000 Palestinians in 1948. There's more to this story than talking points. See attached pic.

Simple ... not invade Iraq. Do you know the meaning of context? Spin it anyway you want. The bottom line is that the USA has made the world a more dangerous place thanks to your greed for oil and your constant need to feed your industrial military complex for your own selfish economic gains. That's not all of it. Google "A Clean Break". Mostly it seems to indicate that the war was more for Israel's security as well as installing Hashemite rule in the region. I'm sure that oil played into the latter idea. The military industrial complex's feeding at the trough of the US Treasury is just icing on the cake.

Don't look now, but your true colors are showing once again. So, what do you want to happen to the illegitimate nation of Israel, and all those inhumane Jews that live there? Leave the territories that they're illegally occupying and expanding. That would be a nice start. Israel does actually have internationally recognized borders. Respecting them would be a step in the right direction.

And it keeps getting more interesting. I guess the West Wing of the White House isn't secure enough for him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGu1teXdw18

You mean this? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2859664;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread The thing about waiting for something to happen is you really need to pay attention so you don't miss it. Ahhh...excellent. The collective is still running (nearly) harmoniously. I was getting worried. Admittedly though, I've let my job interfere with my ability to read every thread on DZ.com, or even SC for that matter. Forgive me. On the subject though, I have to admit that I find the White House's response amusing. Perino's take: "I think that that is an interesting constitutional question,"

I'm surprised. I've been waiting for someone to start talking about Cheney's newly proclaimed divine status of double secret non-executive legislator with executive privileges. It's been in the news for the last few days. Some of the stuff he has said over the years is mind boggling but it looks like they may try to defund his office since he says he's not there Anyway, I'm in a pretty good mood so I'll give you a funnier link to the story. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS31EcTLyFg

It's a land dispute. I never said that religion didn't play into it anywhere. Quite to the contrary. They're fighting over a land that is considered holy to three major religions. As for your Jihad reference, I'm not sure that I understand your point. You're using a Islamic term and saying that it only applies to Islam. So you're absolutely right! Well done!

I actually put his inexperience in the "plus" column. Less exposure to the corruptive forces. But actually, I think that regardless of who the next President is, they're in for a very rough ride and will end up serving only one term. There's a lot of poop to be scooped after this last bunch.

Ron Paul seems a little nutty to me but I have very limited info on him. I have not even heard of Mike Gravel. I am headed to Google! Thanks They were both in the debates, and IIRC both have been on The Daily Show. And they both have more common sense than the rest of their peers. But do their supporters have enough $$$$ free speech $$$$ to make them viable candidates? One thing's for sure, the $GREEN$ party wins.

Well done. And for the record, we're enoyed over here too. Sounds like he's still playing puppet poodle to our own Master of Disaster, Dubya. "At times he has had to bend with an American willingness to bolster Mahmoud Abbas, the Fatah leader, while ignoring the plight of 1.4m Palestinians in Gaza. The idea of Mr Blair doing this job is understood to have originated with the prime minister himself in conversation with George Bush, who then suggested it to the UN. The UN secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, is said to be a keen supporter and Washington was reported last night to have mounted "an enormous push" to ensure Mr Blair got the post. Diplomats said there was some disquiet over the way US talks with Mr Blair were well advanced before any details were shared with the other quartet partners." http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2111455,00.html

Hmmmmm....I didn't change any names except for "Israeli" and "Palestinian" in my reply to John. Something weird happen that I missed or is it just my hydrocodone kicking in? JohnRich didn't write the post you replied to, he edited a previous post by Darius in a different thread. JohnRich made the opposite edits that you did. You know, if we keep doing this then we can get everyone arguing with themselves. Then they'll get confused and realize that both sides in the conflict are to blame.

Seven years ago I would have agreed with you. But over the last three or four he's proven to be too unpredictable.

Hmmmmm....I didn't change any names except for "Israeli" and "Palestinian" in my reply to John. Something weird happen that I missed or is it just my hydrocodone kicking in?

youtube isn't work friendly, both from a bandwidth standpoint as well as not knowing what will pop up on the screen. Nevermind if anyone in audit is paying attention. It was just some of Russert's interview with Jimmy Carter on the issue. Just kidding. It was porn. Ha! I was only joking, it's ok to watch at work. Everything I say is a lie. I'm lying.

OMG - I might just send you a beer for supplying this site. I haven't even looked at it yet, but who cares, as long as it exists. You really need to check it out. Good stuff! http://apatheticagnostic.org/ourchurch/faith.html http://apatheticagnostic.org/articles/quanda/qa2/q26.html

I'm going to save those 8 minutes to defend Muslims in a different thread. This, otoh, would be a total waste of time. This one isn't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf6jxLnflSg&mode=related&search=

I see a lot of posts where people call IsraelisPalestinians crazy, barbaric, or backwards. Why are they so violent? Well this is how IsraelisPalestinians act when their own children are hurt by muslim terroristsIsraeli forces.. I wonder what we would do if muslimsIsraeli's were responsible for thousands of our children’s deaths... Turn the other cheek? I somehow doubt that. Re-read the modified statement above. Then you should understand some of the reasons given by terrorists to want to attack the US and by Palestinians who want to attack their occupying force. Think before you speak. Good advice, for everybody. Here is a giant mirror. The only reason we are so “civilized” is we have very cushy lives. I wonder how we would react if we had to go through what muslims put the Israeli people through. We'd probably kill a lot of people. But hopefully some of us would ask a question like "why in the hell are they so pissed at us? But for the record, your blanket use of the term "muslim" (lower case intentional I assume) shows either a lack of desire to address the complexity of the issue or a desire to retreat to a comfortable arguing position by lumping all Muslims together and dehumanizing/disrespecting them. Why do you blame all Israelis for the actions of a few. Not all Israelis are murderers, you know. I don't know of anyone here who is doing that. Israeli children killed, murdered by muslim missiles and bombs. Now multiply by the appropriate number, which at best should be in the thousands and think of this incident happing for years after years every day. Acknowledge that the weaponry is flying both ways and you'll get a better picture. It is easy to be civil, pleasant and nice when you have no reason not to be, when you have not been pushed in a corner. It makes me puke when I see some muslims sit there in there cushy lives, and judge people and think they are better people. The Israelis have been the victims of muslim murderers for decades. Again, same thing on both sides. I find it ironic that muslims want others to be civil when they have not experienced injustices like the Israelis that they can not even fathom. Ok, I'm not trying to attack you personally, but this is an ignorant statement. Also we have people who seem to masturbate to any bad news that has a Israeli in it. I wouldn't choose that term but to address the point I think you're trying to make, people like me do like to see countering viewpoints broadcast in the media. The influence of AIPAC and Camera etc. have had great success in keeping this debate one sided. I think most people got the point. You can dissected anyway you like but again the point is, people are far more similar then we are different. A point that too few people will openly acknowledge. Thanks for doing so. We like to assume we are all high and mighty but we are not we just have not been pushed. We are only as good as our options. Both Israelis and muslims. Very true. And a point worth remembering when people try to condemn one side of the conflict for using the weapons options that they have at their disposal. Have a nice day. You too

Wow. Those numbers, along with seeing that one woman dies every minute from childbirth, makes me think that we should outlaw child birth

How were those embryo's created? Naturally or through medical science? Some people seem to think that treating infertility through scientific research is just a dandy example of God's working through the hands of the Dr's. Who's to say that creating those embryos isn't really a slap in God's face? I mean why wasn't that couple able to produce a child without scientific intervention? Now you have these embryos that are a product of scientific meddling. Are those really "lives" that need to be saved/cherished? These right to lifers are a complex group. You can create an embryo through science but you can't use one that you created to further scientific discovery. Life is sacred inside the womb but once you're outside.....well...not so much, especially if you live over oil or you don't believe in God the right way. And if you commit a crime then we just can't kill you fast enough. Weird, I tell ya. edited to add: It's all so New/Old Testament.

Ding ding ding! It was said that 7030% of Americans support such researchthe Iraq war So those 7030-percenters just need to put their money where their mouth is, and pony up some donations to do it on their own, without taxpayer funding. Don't take money from people who don't agree with it.

I agree. I don't think that they intended to steal their revenue but I do think that controlling who controlled it is more to the point. Since I'm finding Wolfowitz quotes on this subject I thought I'd throw this one in. Asked why a nuclear power such as North Korea was being treated differently from Iraq, where hardly any weapons of mass destruction had been found, the deputy defence minister said: "Let's look at it simply. The most important difference between North Korea and Iraq is that economically, we just had no choice in Iraq. The country swims on a sea of oil." http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1369424,00.html