Emma

The world doesn't begin and end with America. For some people there is no 'choice'. But I won't even bother to go into this because to make such an ignorant, inhumane, bloodthirsty comment, you are obviously already lost.

Hinton is the friendliest DZ in the UK! Not only that, it also has a new PURPOSE-BUILT (kind of) bar, brand new showers and a funky mural in the hangar. There is also an excellent shop run by the ever-patient Mads, where you can buy new and used gear, videos, equipment and jumpsuits. WARP and Freefly coaching is also available.

Jesus, Will - you're a 'veteran'?? Didn't even know that existed! The 'Afghan Government' is not the same as the Taliban, so asking the Afghan Government to hand Bin Laden over is difficult, since the Afghan Government have been overthrown by a bunch of psychos. You can ask the Taleban to hand him over, but please understand that they have slaughtered thousands of Afghanis already, so they are NOT supported by the people of this nation. Read this: From the Lonely Planet: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/letters/meast/afg_pc.htm From the CIA (scroll down) http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/af.html From Amnesty International http://www.web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/index/ASA110071998 Emma

This is completely unrelated to skydiving so before you read it, you have been warned. However, it was sent to me on an email and I think it's worth reading. And please, if you read anything that makes sense to you here, copy it into an email and send it on. If there's anything technology has given us, it's the ability for ordinary people to communicate with millions of other ordinary people outside of the media's limited perspective. Emma To whoever is on this email thread: I've been hearing a lot of talk about 'bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.' Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but 'we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?' Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we 'have the belly to do what must be done.' And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think 'the people of Afghanistan' think 'the Jews in the concentration camps.' It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of 'having the belly to do what needs to be done' they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else? - Tamim Ansary

I found this in my online wanderings, thought you might like it. Rush I have an insane belief in speed Wicked knowledge of my need I know what it takes to fly My own way to soar so high I have an insane belief in pain Wicked knowledge of what keeps me sane I know how it hurts to fall My own way to tame the squall I have an insane belief in power Wicked knowledge what keeps this hour I know what force I brave My own way to hold the wave I have an insane belief in rush Wicked knowledge I can't crush I know what it takes to fly My own way, to soar so high by Innocence has Fallen (that's the only name I have) (I aint too sure about the pain bit, well...not if all goes to plan...but the rest of it sounds kinda like our stuff ) Emma

Come on girlies, tell the truth now. If the boys don't know... Big willy, small canopy. Tchhh.....what else could there be? A smile and being yourself aint much good if you're shit at skydiving and look like William Hague.

LOL.....

Ben, you are such a perv! We should celebrate the ecstacy of being naked and at one with the sky! I did one last month and despite everyone doing backloops, it was difficult to see whether the inversion of boobs things worked for all concerned. I didn't see the willies either .... But that's not what it's about! Fly! Fly free with your naked skin kissed by the sun's rays and carressed by the air! (And remember not to *accidentally* slip into a sit if you are female and attempting a backloop....ouch! Also, bear in mind the telemeters while you are under canopy......cross your legs or you get a rather graphic 'lift and separate' effect for all the whuffos below who've got the binoculars out to see Uncle Bob doing his tandem......) Em

Don't know about you, Ben, but when a bloke is rude to me I like to imagine he fancies me (OK, I said I LIKE to imagine it...didn't say it was necessarily true...it's a self-esteem builder trick)... So...guess you could be right about the wedding of the year. Can't wait for the invite.... Emma

Actually....the real tragedy is....I don't think he noticed..BASTARD!

Shit. ...I got mine out and we only got 12,000 feet!... Either I've devalued the whole thing..or...my tits are just too small to have the desired effect... But now I know about The T.F.A.A....ahh, the weekend's looking better already! Will try and establish an English following Em

OK. The answer is simple. When people join your DZ not only should they fill in paperwork etc., they should also be weighed, smelled and generally appraised physically by a team of expert body fascists. The price of their jump tickets will then be calculated based on smelliness, fatness and ugliness. Pretty, toned men will thus score highly on the 'Beauty/ appeal' scale, although they may lose a point or two on the 'Weight' scale if they are really boofed. If they stink (pits/feet/arse/breath/hair), again, lose a couple of points. Same goes for women. Although, since this 'assessment panel' is to be made up entirely of women (me and my mates at my DZ actually - although am yet to run idea past DZOs), they will probly lose a point or two on the 'Beauty/ appeal' level. Making the discrimination equal for both genders...No really..it does! The idea is, of course, to create a perfect new 'race' of skydivers, since we know from previous threads that only skydiver/skydiver love can really work....We thus manage to prevent infiltration from non-filtered (and possibly minging) whuffos. Plus, the ride up to altitude will be filled more often with pretty young men who don't stink too much, as they benefit from their low-cost jump tickets. And maybe some women. Maybe. Brilliant eh? I thank you. Emma

Yeh but if you DO looooooove your JM it may help get you your Cat 8. Well, it worked for me and Skreamer anyway. Em BTW- you could try 'Don't leave me this way' by The Communards. Ha ha

I had one and I took it off. I have a Cypress so don't see the point in both. Plus if I have a horrible spinny mal I'd want to get clear of it and get stable first before I get out my reserve - without having to piss around unclipping the bastard first. Emma

Did someone mention pies?

You won't fuck it up again. Every time you jump it gets easier. You'll always have some fear but that's ok, in fact, it's normal. Stepping outside your comfort zone is scary, but as you obviously know, if you don't do it, you're going to regret it. As the ad men from Nike say, just do it! Hope to read your posts on here when you get your Cat 8 Emma

As a fat fucker myself I can't but agree. It's my fault I'm a lard arse because I eat greasy, lardy food all day long at the DZ. I won't take offense at your words. We 'fatties' as you call us (rather cruelly I feel, but whatever) already pay premiums on commercial flights, and my canopy and harness are reinforced to cope with my excess weight. I guess it's only fair I pay for 2 jump tickets per lift. Emma

Nimbus, Keep at it! Some people take years to qualify, you sound like you have the right attitide to it and you're bound to breeze through!

One small point about sex and skydiving (as compared to one another, not together...that's a whole other thread entirely). There are lots of reasons why skydiving is better than sex. However, withour putting too fine a point on it, it's well nigh impossible to impact the earth at 120mph while having sex...or even, break an ankle, if you think about it (unless you have a really BIG partner, I guess). Skydiving.....well..... E

Hey Crusty Rec boy! Hence my comment: And my use of quotation marks around the word 'safe'. Please don't lets have this degenerate into another row over whether it's 'safe' or not! I just want to give him some nice, tidy stats so he can make up his own mind what is an acceptible risk to him. Thanks to those of you who have provided some links - that's all i needed!

Uh, was just trying to get some stats for a whuffo friend of mine who wants to do a tandem and needs to persuade his wife it's 'safe'... It became obvious he wasn't going to be content with my standard waffle that it's 'more safe than driving to the dz....safer than fishing....honest guv, it's really safe' etc., I had a look through rec.skydiving and could only find a lengthy conflict and not many whuffo-friendly stats. And I mean friendly in the sense that they don't hurt your brain too much to read. I don't want to mislead him since we all know that we can and do break tandem passengers every week. Anyone got a site I can direct him to with some numbers on? Something I can quote? Something that looks 'official'? Something that isn't some random guy going, "Based on a median of x thousand skydives taking place each year, (and I assume an experience level of y, for expediency and the purposes of this statistic, looking at only ACTIVE skydivers in the western world who have full use of all their limbs), dividing the total by half the number you first thought of and multiplying by Pythagorus' theorum to set the test group, excepting non-USPA members: skydiving is safer than driving a car on your way to the dz whilst sending a text message and drinking a can of cherry cola, although NOT AS SAFE as driving drinking a warm Pepsi and picking up a voicemail blah blah blah". If I am asking the impossible just ignore me. Cheers, Emma

Hey Adam! Glad you had a nice weekend! I hadn't really registered the total perv potential until all the laydeez were rounded up in the pen with their weird and wonderful underwear on like some kind of middle eastern slave auction! 'Mmmmm, ye-e-e-s, I weeel 'ave the preeeeedy leeeedle laydeeee wiz the beeeg beeeg boobies' etc etc (and that was just my bf!) Sorry about his tackle bouncing around so publicly, I know it makes 'ordinary men' feel inadequate ! LOL C ya later, E

hey good idea Mouth, send the American women to the UK, we have some very charming chaps over here and.....er.....no, er, actually, scrap that, we'd like to keep them for ourselves, ok? (You wouldn't like it here anyway, it's cold, wet, and we drink warm bitter from dirty pint glasses in filthy pubs...and everyone smokes, and if you fall down a manhole you have a helluva job to sue...) (LOL @ your comment re Monk's name....is it true though???) Em

Awwwww, Skreamer...ya little sweetie ! Didn't stay for a beer though, didya? Maybe the weekend after next, though full clothing will be worn, and if you only have one testicle left by then, please make sure this won't unbalance you as I have enough trouble with FS as it is! Em