Orange1

That information was already freely available in the FBI files on the case that have been made available to the public. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, there is a world of difference between a round canopy and a paraglider. Anyway, you still haven't managed to actually place Duane under any type of canopy. To follow up on what skywhuffo said: i seem to recall you posted not too long ago that while you had been keeping certain things secret due to whatever reasons now was the time to lay everything in the open. So it's a bit difficult to understand after that why you are now reverting to cryptic comments and that you know something we don't. Do you actually have any real, concrete evidence? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Don't forget that while there may be people on here with various theories there are others who aren't. I seem to recall that there was someone (ex FBI agent? can't recall?) who was so convinced Cooper died in the lake that he paid to have it dredged. Lyle Christiansen is another. And possibly others that we haven't heard about. Just because they aren't on dz.com giving their side of it they shouldn't be dismissed! But coming back to your first point... a large budget and a few months on a 37-year old case where, whether he survived the jump or not, any suspect by now has a good chance of being dead (mayfield the exception?)... i would guess this case is not taking top priority in terms of either funds or time for blindingly obvious reasons... as much as we'd all love to know who it was. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

hiya, 2 things: - first, when you let go of the strut, where are you looking? we were taught to always look up at the plane - helps keep your arch and keep you on heading - that might help? - when you say flipped on your side - did your instructor give feedback as to why? ie was it from not arching/generally unstable, or from not pulling your left arm in as you pulled? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

My only problem with this theory is: if the weather was as bad as we've been led to believe, opening close to 10K - leaving you much longer in that cold and the canopy much more in the rain (i'm assuming rain was bad for old canopies too?) - just would not make sense. If the weather was clear, it would have been a great theory. Re the criticisms of Awsee/Mayfield.. they are as valid as any theory. There is NO hard evidence of anything yet. Lots of dots drawn together, different people join different dots and get different pictures. As for ckret, give the guy a break. What's it been, a couple of days? Maybe he's on holiday, maybe he's out catching a real live identifiable criminal.. or maybe he's just tired of going round in circles here and being attacked for all real and perceived injustices suffered by any and all FBI agents of the last few decades...? edited to clarify: the last 2 paragraphs are in general response to various posts, not directed at safecrackingPLF. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Oh come on.. because it's on the internet it's true? just like a plane never crashed into the pentagon on 9/11 and the moon landing was faked? yup. strangely there are other internet sites debunking all these theories. so we can go round in circles positing URLs that don't prove a damn thing except that people can be very selective with the evidence they want to "prove" something. if the fbi didn't want the case solved, why go to all the trouble of re-publicizing it, putting more info out, having an agent on this site, etc? (if you're gonna tell me that that is all an effort to hide that they don't want it found out, you're just resorting to the last resort of a conspiracy theorist...) there are at least 2 people on this site alone who are convinced that they know who Cooper was (2 different people), Lyle Christiansen luckily hasn't found this site (or has refrained from posting) cos that would make a third.. and still no-one has come up with anything but, from what i can see, selectively used circumstantial evidence. and btw once you have gone back and re-read the whole thread you may want to rethink about your comments on some of the other posters on the site. assuming you are, of course, the objective outsider you paint yourself as. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

sorry, i should have been awake enough to carry through what you were saying about 1 in 5 to determine what you meant without you having to spell it out btw most people dealing in "real world" probabilities - like i do in my line of work - would consider an 80% probability to be very high indeed. Maybe that's why I found your argument that the DNA from the tie wouldn't mean much, to be odd. To my way of thinking - on your probability, there is a very good chance indeed that Cooper wore the tie, ergo an elimination based on that to me would carry a lot of weight. Re the fingerprints and metallic bits.. I dunno, maybe. Is it possible that Cooper didn't really care because his fingerprints were not on file anywhere? I guess though this would rule out both anyone with a prison record as well as military (if i am correct in my understanding that military recruits were fingerprinted?). Or, perhaps, thinking that as a full fingerprint could not be lifted off the bits, it didn't matter? btw I cannot recall now - were partial fingerprints actually lifted off those bits? Or were they wiped clean? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

So you are unwilling to accept the possibility that the tie was Cooper's and that he survived? I don't buy the argument that he left the tie without wearing it himself. I don't know for certain, but I imagine it was pretty difficult to lift fingerprints off fabric in those days. So why "plant" it? Certainly not for DNA, this all happened long before DNA was sequenced (is that the correct term?), let alone DNA testing done on criminals. If he handled the tie, it will have his DNA on. And if he planted the tie... why all the fuss about the missing cigarette butts? Why would he have planted the tie and left behind butts that could be used? Were the butts also planted then? If so, they will prove nothing either. The whole line of argument around planting the tie, yet thinking the butts will be useful, to my mind is contradictory. I think it's more likely he left both behind, thinking fingerprints could not be lifted off them, without realising the advances that would be made in DNA etc in years to come. I do agree that the main function of the DNA tests will most probably be to eliminate suspects. One already has been, let's see what happens with the others. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Ckret, the FBI website says this about Christiansen: "Kenneth Christiansen, named in a recent magazine article, didn’t match the physical description and was a skilled paratrooper." I really think that dismissing him on the grounds of the very experience that would have given him the skills to survive the jump ... just seems a bit odd. I know your views but hey there are other possibilities (as we saw re speculation about why McCoy dimmed the cabin lights ) Surely there is enough revitalised interest in the case now that you can get his DNA tested - and Mayfield's? btw i see at least one of those old press reports gave the addresses of the flight attendants!! no wonder they went running scared and clammed up if they were worried he'd come after them! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

especially from someone with less than 200 jumps, yeah? then again, i even know how to spot Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Just browsing some of the stuff on Cooper from the FBI website, which includes some press clippings from the time. Not sure what your point about the raincoat/trenchcoat is - the FBI bulletin describes it as "black rain-type overcoat or dark top coat". This seems to have been faithfully reported in the press articles that are also in the files. No mention of tie pin/clasp/stick at all - just that he wore a narrow black tie. Jo, can you give some idea of which press reported it as a pin/tack/whatever? It does say that the eyes were "possibly brown" which I find interesting. Somewhere along the way that "possible" seems to have been dropped from the description? btw Ckret - as per some of the clippings, in the Pilot Bulletin they mention Cooper was reported to have "a bitter hatred" for airlines and may have worked for one; in AirLine Pilot it says "he expressed a bitter hatred for the airlines" - so I'm assuming this was "common knowledge" at the time, but I don't recall having seen it mentioned in this thread at all. Was this lead pursued? (It does seem to a backup for the Christiansen thesis again, of course) He is also reported as having a familiarity with airline aircraft operations. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

maybe it wasn't actually to view the ground - but simply because he was about to do a night jump...? Of course, the McCoy case did show one thing: that such a jump could be done successfully! btw Jo you asked earlier what wrist he wore the watch on - this doesn't necessarily mean anything; i'm right-handed, but i wear my watch on my right wrist. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

IIRC McCoy had a rock solid alibi for the time of the DB Cooper hijacking? and surely it's hardly surprising he had clippings of the Cooper case, given what he went on to do? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

seriously? i thought that was just to keep flailing arms out of the TM's way! I have learnt something new facts

1. Don't break myself. - Done! Seeing as i broke myself in 2006, this was particularly important. 2. Tunnel training (planned for January - we have no tunnels here so it isn't as easy as it is for some of you) - Done! And boy was it fun, as well as valuable. 3. Get my B licence (75 freefalls required so I'm still short of jumps, hoping the tunnel will help with the skills for the 4-way test jump) - err... i got the required jump #s but never got round to doing the test jump because i was too busy with: 4. Do lots of FS and ideally get on a team - Done! Well, not as many jumps as I would have liked but not only did I get on a team but we competed in at Nationals, so I guess I kinda overachieved on this one so all in all i think i did pretty well

semantics!! OK then... "various FBI agents involved with the cooper investigation at various times have decided there was not enough evidence to consider either mayfield or weber as a viable suspect"... Entirely agreed about the DNA. Like i said.. would love to see the results of tests on that of christiansen and mayfield. Conspiracy theories about "switching" the tie aside, it has to be a strong bet that some of the various DNA on it belongs to Cooper. So personally, I think ckret's conclusion is probably right. But the only way to know for sure is to find someone whose DNA does match what's on the tie! btw thanks for the summary on mayfield. fwiw, he has also been convicted of negligent homicide, though that may not be as "relevant" as the other convictions you mention. If some of the gaps re your questions can be filled in, would be interesting. So far all completely circumstantial and other than the criminal history, not dissimilar from the bare bones of the christiansen speculation (which is mainly: knew the area, could skydive, did purchase property not long after hijacking which on the face of it should not have been able to afford) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Which of course is where the difficulty comes in being the FBI vs posting theories on websites or in newspapers, tv etc. to dbcoopercatcher - even if it's not enough evidence for the FBI, is there a link you can post that will lead those of us who are interested, to the main reasons you so strongly think it was mayfield. awsee too, as he seems your best bet? btw Jo, I really don't think it is evenhanded of you to slate the FBI on so many other things and then just accept himmelsbach's conclusions on mayfield?! (i mean... they say it wasn't duane and you don't believe them, they say it wasn't mayfield and you do?) from what i can see, so far we have no more than circumstantial evidence on anyone... & we know circumstantial evidence has convicted the wrong people before, & we also know some people make false confessions. no proof anywhere yet. but, so far we still have (at least) 2 people for whom there appears to be various circumstantial evidence who, unlike Duane, we know could skydive (mayfield and christiansen); at least one trained for the kind of conditions the jump took place in (did anyone ever confirm whether or not mayfield did any military jumping?) and - ckret can you confirm - no DNA tests have been done yet? i know the arguments re the physical descriptions etc but still... it would be interesting. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I understand it is not that unusual for witnesses who have been traumatised to "shut down" & refuse to co-operate after cases. Don't forget this was someone who spent how many hours thinking she might die at the hands of this man and his "bomb"? (and a skydiver will know how long even 60 seconds can feel...) I believe (tho not a fundi on US law) that there is even a provision in the US that, on expert testimony, someone who has suffered (mental) trauma during commission of a crime may not be forced to testify if that will make them undergo further trauma. From what has been posted on this forum in the past there seems to have been significant long-term adverse effects on at least one of the witnesses from the trauma - whether it was Tina and/or Florence I don't know. But it doesn't necessarily surprise me that she became uncooperative. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Hmm, let's see, if i was crazy enough to try this i might like to have in my paper sack ... goggles... alti... a small flashlight..? (did they have glow-in-the-dark altis in those days? what else would you have used for a night jump back then?) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

You seem to know an awful lot about what Jo thinks, knows, doesn't know, feels, is motivated by, and so on. btw if she was threatened, wouldn't the normal thing to do be to go to the cops? or get a protection order from the courts? or something? p.s. just because "a handful of people" believe in a conspiracy theory doesn't make it true. the internet and bookshops are full of conspiracy theories that many people believe yet whose "logic" and "arguments" don't stand up to rational examination. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

What he said. So, to answer did I really know the risks, I would have to say no, even though I was well aware of the possibility of serious injury or death. And I don't believe any FJC details all the above - and other stuff (eg: a spinning mal that is so bad you can't reach your handles) because they don't have to at that stage. You really learn the risks as you go along, and as you learn each new risk you reassess. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, read stratostar's post again. he is in his own way actually trying to help you. and... calling conspiracy theory does you NO favors. conspiracy theories are often based on the premise that because you can't find the proof it is so well hidden.. when the more obvious explanation to most is that you can't find it because it isn't there in the first place. in other words, many people see them as the last refuge of someone who simply can't prove what they need to and are looking for an excuse for that. the fact that the FBI has thrown this case open to the public again tells me that they (carr in particular) really are trying to find out what happened. yes they clearly made mistakes in the past, like with the cigarette butts - but jo honestly if the butts are found and don't match duane's DNA won't you then respond the same way you did with the tie? not going out of my way to defend the FBI but I think also important to remember that what we know now about tracing criminals was NOT the same as in 1971 and it's not always fair to judge them on that basis. Life is not even a CSI episode now and it certainly wwasn't back then. I watch Cold Case Files occasionally and it is really interesting how many old crimes are easily solved now simply because of DNA testing which they did not have then, and even with other handling etc on evidence they can prove what they need to. So my personal opinion is that even with the handling etc SOME of the DNA on that tie belongs to the real DB cooper. I'd love ckret to be able to do a DNA test on christiansen. And i'd love one day to see a Cold Case Files showing us how they finally resolved the DB Cooper case and Jo.. sorry to harp on about this but as per your first post in this thread, you have still not put Duane anywhere near a parachute, and all the other "clues" etc that get thrown out don't change this. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yes, Lyle Christiansen has put his brother Kenneth (now deceased) forward. He was an ex paratrooper working some lowish paid job with NWA who suddenly found enough money to buy himself a house, etc. Ckret has dismissed him on physical description and the (admittedly reasonable) argument that he would have been too well known to the crew to hijack a plane in the area he worked. But no DNA testing has been done. (Ckret, I think i have summarised this all correctly, if not please feel free to correct it!) There was a link to one article about Christiansen some pages ago, google brings up lots. This was the main story: http://nymag.com/news/features/39593/ Here's another one: http://www.startribune.com/local/11592341.html fwiw, Lyle seems as convinced about his brother as Jo is about Duane. Ckret is quoted as saying this in the 2nd article: "I'm sure he absolutely believes his brother is D.B. Cooper," said Larry Carr, who has been the lead investigator on the case for just over a year. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you." Ckret also says, in that article, about Christiansen: "He had brown eyes. He was too short," Carr said. "The stewardess who spent the most time with Cooper said he had hazel eyes and that she looked up to him, and she was 5 foot 8. I'm not going to say it's not him, but I probably won't put a lot of effort into an investigation." Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

agree, especially given that if cooper survived he had $200K (less whatever was found in the river).. how much would he have made selling the gear in 1971? Hardly worth it for the risk of being traced? And back up to (sorry forgot poster) about HALO jumps from 727s - did these jumps not involve gear? In any case, excuse any ignorance on this subject, but how different would an exit from a 727 vs a herc or dak or whatever be with gear on? My money is still on Cooper as an ex-paratrooper, who would have had (as far as i can see) the skills necessary to survive a night jump in less-than-perfect weather, into hostile terrain, with a load attached. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

agreed, but so far (and it's been a very long thread in terms of both time and # of posts) we don't have him near any type of parachute at all ... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.