sfzombie13

it may not be practical, but how on earth will we find out unless we try it? if it weren't safe, we wouldn't use it for tandem pairs. as for taking a few seconds longer on opening, i have a question. did you start out knowing how to open your parachute or did they teach you how at the first jump course? if you knew how to skydive before the fjc, then i guess you aren't a good candidate for my system. if, however, you are like everyone else i know and learned all you need to know before doing it, then you can learn this new part, practice it, and use it properly. if it is something that needs a certain amount of jumps and/or other experience or training before using it, so be it. i would prefer that if it ever goes into production that new users would get some in person training to ensure you know how to use it before sending you out the plane with it. if you think that all hard openings can be prevented, i sincerely hope you never find out that you are wrong in the air. i prefer to have a backup in case you're wrong. you see, the thing about situations such as this boils down to one question you have to ask yourself: what if i'm wrong? if the answer to that contains a part where someone can die or get seriously injured, you want to look at the possibilities and plan accordingly to mitigate those risks. so, what if you're wrong, and hard openings can sometimes just happen? with a set of break away risers, you have a cutaway if you're 65. if you don't, you could die. i prefer to have a safety factor thrown in. if you go back and read my response to your last comment, you will see that i am pretty confident that the break away risers are the way to go to prevent hard openings from killing folks. i just don't like all my eggs in one basket. this link is to the thread where the better idea was discussed.

interesting thoughts, but i have to disagree with the last statement. there are the occasional mystery slammers that nobody can explain and they are often written off as body position or packing error. this thread and others have them mentioned, along with the idea that turbulence or air pressure may play a part, or some sort of dust devil. i have been in the sport for 22 years, despite my relatively low experience flying. i have seen lots of things come and go, and have other projects i am working on to improve the safety of the sport. i am leaning toward break away risers as a safety over this, as it seems to be more simple and is already being used in another sport. i also have been studying equipment for a few years in order to become a rigger, one of my original aspirations in '97, along with base. i got too old for base though. i don't really care too much yet, as i am still just under the age where i consider my heart to be at risk, and that is why i jump the raven, that and it only cost $500 brand new (well, 12 years old but 0 rides). not a bad price for downsizing, but my next canopy will most likely be for the rest of my life and will include all of the things you mentioned. so, i appreciate your concerns, and the advice especially about the pack monkey, sounds worth investigating. the part about not jumping with others is a bit of a misunderstanding. the drogue will not be out all the time, only when deploying, and it should only add about 500 - 800 feet to your deployment altitude. it should even be ok for free flying, but i wouldn't trust it in case of a premature deployment. but if it is sufficiently tested, a premature with this may just help slow you down and flip you back over, albeit with dangers to anyone over you at the time. yeah, probably not a good idea to free fly with it. wait til you see my helmet i am working on. had to stop for a bit to take care of some life issues, but it should be done by spring. the 2d gen will have all the bells and whistles: altimeter, hud, gps, logbook, camera, and audible. i wish i could get the wrist altimeter small enough to use jumping. it works though, just not practical yet. anyway, as you can see, i am just trying to innovate, same thing that's been done and being done around the world. that's what hackers do. cheers, mate.

i kinda want to see the movie now...

i'd jump it, depending on the canopies condition. the aad's are probably expired. a few months ago, i paid $400 for a container made in aug '94 with a reserve but no main, was a j4 with a c-18. you can sell the canopies for a few hundred each, maybe a little more depending on what they are, how old they are, and what condition they are in. the suit is probably worth at least $150, but i am not an expert on pricing. the helmets are in decent shape as are the cameras but it is all old, so probably not worth a lot. most folks jump go-pros now. you can unpack the main and reserve to look at what size they are and the condition they are in. your best bet is to find a dz close to you and take it all in to have it looked at by a pro. if you want to get rid of the red one, let me know.

i spent almost an hour looking at that site and shopping for fabric i don't need. i like that you can get a swatch of it to make sure it's what you want. they had some that looked like it may work for $40 for a 50 yd roll. definitely worth getting a swatch for a buck to make sure it works. then that rocky woods link came up and i'll probably spend another hour shopping.

now you got me interested. i found this site, doesn't say marquisette, but you can buy a swatch for a dollar and it is cheaper than $6 a yard. talk about a rabbit hole. thanx for the distraction guys.

i would say we need to evaluate what the g force is that would incapacitate someone and call that dangerous. then evaluate what would be significant enough to cause a slight concussion or some sort of bell ringing without being incapacitated and call that hard. that one would be a bit more difficult to quantify i would imagine.

i can see the one at the bottom, the newer one, but the rest are missing. is this due to age or are they supposed to be there?

if it has ads, it is paid for.

you're close. you don't have to be logged out when it closes, it just sends the connection specific info back to the server, sometimes the password, sometimes an authentication token, depending on how it's setup. you are close though, as simply holding a window open can hold the connection, like when you forget to logout of an rdp session and was mentioned above as a dos attack. like if you have a mobile browser open as someone else above said, it could keep a window open and active, which would cause them to fill up. it seems to me that with the amount of posts on here, it may have something to do with changing the hosting or limiting the number of connections somehow due to the switch in forum software when they changed up, but it could be the new forum software itself. l liked the look of the old site way better, that was how i will forever judge forums.

i found another thread all in italics. https://www.dropzone.com/forums/topic/15218-papillon-canopy/

it's not a point system. it's called learning. why do you suppose i proposed an idea like this in this forum? maybe because i don't know about some things and want others who do to inform me of the things i may be missing? like all the ideas of things i learned, such as a drogue in tow messing with a reserve deployment. that seems like a problem that should be solved, or maybe it has, but i will find out. i got that information from talking to a guy at strong. i looked at the numbers and speed is definitely correlated to high g forces. slowing down will reduce them to a survivable force. i just have to find out what the speed is and how big of a pilot chute it would take to get there. it would change with different weights, but i suspect there is a happy medium somewhere. maybe not. and yes it would mean another action on deployment, and at least 500-1000 extra feet of altitude to get that action. it's not for everyone, it is a niche project that will probably never make it past the drawing board. it is a very much needed solution and we need to talk about it along with any other ideas and modifications we can figure out to prevent the high g forces from killing jumpers. since we don't know exactly what causes them we can't prevent them. i would love for the uspa to grab some data on hard openings, like sending out a request for incident reports to gather information on them. that would be something we can all use.

i'm not sure either but in know that examining more than one solution to a problem is the best way to solve it. personally, i think the break away risers are the best idea that would prevent deaths from hard openings, and i will most likely not go further with this, but i would like to put one together to see if it would work as intended.

yes i am and no, never had one. i just got interested in the discussion about the break away risers and found a problem that needs solved. i love those, but most of the ones i work on are amusements and novelties. i figured that if it could be solved, then it may just do me some good since i'm getting old. i had thought about the ravens openings, but have yet to jump the 181 and it is the one that is zp, so i may just be getting rid of that one sooner than anticipated. if it opens and flies anything like the 218 i'll keep it. thanx for the good advice.

that is something that i had not considered. it does make sense and i wonder if the issue is something that can be fixed by using a larger slider rather than break away risers or a drogue system. do you know of any data on it? it would be worth doing some investigation in any case. thanx for that input. i was planning on going from my 218 to the 181 sometime when it comes back from the shop. looks like it may indeed save my life, even if it's not a reserve any longer.

it may have helped had you not had another person strapped to you with the drogue out. it still may have blew the cell, but you would have been going slower, thus you would have pulled less g's. i'm not trying to prevent the hard openings, just trying to make them survivable. i hear that old guys have torn aortas from them and am getting old. i have yet to have a hard one and mostly fly larger canopies anyway but if i can save one life it would be worth it, especially if it were mine. it may turn out impractical or a pain in the arse to use, in which case i would at least have tried. i think the break away risers coolbeans is working on is better, but you're not supposed to put your eggs in one basket.

i understand that, but the question was would someone pull for the student or let the student go on down if he/she were not getting it? i would think that the affi would grab the pilot chute after two or three tries if the student were not going for silver, but am not sure how they are trained to respond.

i understand completely having talked to an affi at the dz. i sincerely hope that coolbeans gets his riser prototype finished before i get around to this, as his idea will also save my life in the case of a hard opening and is much more likely not to introduce too many additional issues to the system. i may introduce some sort of cutting device in the case of a drogue in tow, but that is just one more device that can fail. mals will have to be dealt with though, thanx for the advice, i will use it. riggerrob, thanx for that idea, it would be wise for testing purposes and i will take that advice when it comes time for tests.

i've never done aff so forgive me if this is a stupid question. on level 1, doesn't the main side instructor pull for the student if they don't find it? i can certainly understand it being ingrained before level 1 since we do it with our fjc on iad students. but that is because nobody is there as a backup. didn't know if it would be different of if the student gets 2 tries and goes silver without the affi pulling.

i was looking to just commandeer the one the strong uses for their tandem rigs. i don't have the facilities nor the training to develop something new. if it now requires anyone using it to pull higher, then pull again to release the drogue. i just need to figure out timing rather than try to devise a system to release it automatically. matja, thanx for the input regarding kill line pilot chutes, and when i was talking to the guy at strong, he did mention i would also need the pilot chute to have a release system. that was the main reason for just putting the whole system in place, somebody has already done the r&d. reading the other thread regarding the break away risers and the climbing harness i doubt i will pursue something as complicated as this. my son's mother passed last weekend and our world has been turned upside down. if i can find those risers, i will send them off for the prototype to coolbeans.

i may have a set. let me look around if i still have it or if it went with the last rig.

the guy i talked to at strong said they also had problems with the students relying on the drogue rather than arching, so it wasn't really good for them although it did what they wanted, other than the reserve entanglement you mentioned. that will definitely be one of the test scenarios if i ever make it that far, thanx a lot for that very valuable info.

i'll keep you updated on the helmet. it will be done first anyway. the other idea is one that may never materialize, depending on what i find out in my research. it is a rather small subset of jumpers who would even consider using it, and it would greatly modify your deployment and emergency procedures, possibly to the point of introducing some element of danger that is unacceptable. that is how all great ideas come about though, they have to be thought of first. this may, or may not be, one of them. we shall see.

physics. or math. if the deployment at 120 mph creates enough g force to kill you, then an opening at 75 mph MAY reduce the g force enough to keep you alive. maybe not. i am not an engineer and do not have the necessary knowledge to work out the math yet. that is step whatever after i follow the advice i was given after i talked to chuck at strong enterprises about the student drogue they used at one time and the reason it was taken out of service. he also mentioned that i need to use the whole drogue system and not just the handles, something i had not considered, in order to be able to release the drogue properly to avoid a line dump, thus creating the very thing i am trying to prevent. he also suggested some additional research material to look into. all of this is taking a backseat to my current project, an impact rated skydiving helmet with a built in case for a gopro, no snag points and no external mounts. as soon as the 3d printer comes in, i can start working with the carbon fiber and get a prototype in the air, maybe as soon as this month.

that is what prompted the question, it is a touch confusing and i will probably do it anyway. thanx for the info on strong doing it on a student rig. now it seems i just have to find out if it never caught on due to preference or a bad design/safety issue or something like that.