dorbie

That only works when the nuts are few & far between and when you have good enforcement. Arresting suicide bombers isn't an option and the problem unfortunately does not solve itself in the way one might hope.

Well look at the way Nazi Germany and Bushido Japan were turned around after WWII. I expect the modern press would strenuously object to the methods employed to do that at the time. P.S. and a couple of generations of Hitler youth could really have gotten the ball rolling for generations to come if they'd gotten away with it. Seems like it's easier to roll downhill or at least the downhill advocates are prepared to employ methods of indoctrination.

LMAO The irony is Jefferson is my favorite founding father.

You can always argue that one set of craziness equates to another, but I just don't buy your argument for equivalence. Like most messes in the real world, there are degrees and one has to apply some level of judgement rather than running around with annecdotes pretending an Insane Asylum is just like a University because you can point to a few dippy faculty members. I don't expect any society can eliminate crazies and conflict but some do a better job than others.

That's very U.S.-centric, most other nations in the West progressed along similar lines without a constitution drawn up by land grabbing, slave raping rebels. I'm not advocating what you imply I am, each one of us is the total of our lifetime's experience, there's no genetic memory. We're moulded by the present, not the past and it didn't take me 250 years to get here. Cultural gestalt plays a big role but let's not fool ourselves that this is either inevitable or unavoidably slow. There have been some spectacular blotches on the copybook, for example Germany in 1930s. If gradual cultural change is the key then the pace of cultural change in the middle east seems to be far from gradual and accelerating faster than ever in exactly the wrong direction for now. Every opportunity for rational expression gets hijacked and perverted to make the situation worse.

The question I have is what rescued the West from this crap? We used to go marching off under crosses butchering infidels in the name of God, if it wasn't Christians killing non-Christians it was Catholics killing Protestants & vice-versa. I still see some of that stupidity lingering in places but by and large it's live & let live in the West and the sectarian idiots are seen for what they are. So what's the difference between them & us? Is it the faith or the radicalised indoctrination that pervades their society. How the heck do you extinguish this brushfire? IMHO Wahabism is just another symptom, eliminate it (if that's even possible) and you've only dealt with part of the problem.

Yea, some of the folks who experience nothing during a flatline get pretty depressed about the whole thing.

No, there's no guarantee that if there is something that you will encounter it any more than you would say going under for surgery. Also, there's no guarantee that any experience would be attributable to an afterlife as opposed to the physiology of an oxygen starved brain in it's death throws. Afterlife or no, trying to trick death into giving you a glimpse seems like a bad idea.

Considering the jeopardy it should be a severe penalty when it's clear cut. If you took someone and imprisoned them for years without cause you'd face kidnap charges, I think the offence of a false accusation is at least as bad as the crime itself in this case and you need to balance the safe harbor of a victim against justice for the accused when there's a clear and obvious abuse. One would hope that for flagrant abuse the DA doesn't aid and abet a vindictive liar, but in this case he did. Some DAs in America don't seem to exercise the moral restraint and act with the responsibility required of the office, it's often too politicised. Aside from his pantomome in front of the press and total disregard for sensible judgemet this guy persuaded a pathologist to suppress exculpatory DNA evidence! It's just unbelievable.

I heard about that. Messy but not the worst outcome for the deceased. Of course some clerics are already making outlandish claims on TV. It doesn't mater what happens, it's always cast in the worst possible light. If Saddam were still alive or not sentenced to death it would have been hailed as a great defeat for the USA and the Iraqi government. At some point you just tune out this harping crap. It "appalled international critics" , they were quick weren't they, not so quick off the mark when this guy was doing the torturing and killing of thousands. The guy who once terrorized an entire nation, who rounded up, tortured and killed thousands, who forced his enemies to swim through vats of human feces with broken bones dies instantly during an execution, but because of a miscalculation it doesn't look pretty and they're "apalled" and outraged. [yawn] I'm impressed by the newly discovered squeamishness and outrage of these Sunni clerics though, it's really a new angle for them and if it catches on maybe they'll be a bit more reticent about blowing women and children limb from limb to further their political causes.

You miss their point. They don't mean that it's WORSE. In fact, they know it's not related at all. They simply want you to be distracted by talk about Clinton -- ANYTHING about Clinton -- instead of Bush. Why? Because talk about Bush embarasses them. They're reawwy reawwy upset -- poor things. Nope, while I disagree with a lot of the crap about Bush I'm not defending him here, I just dislike all the gobshite and lies by fawning Clinton apologists. If people hadn't climbed up Clinton's ass in this thread I'd never have posted to it. I can't even recall posting about the Clinton perjury before, but the lying, ignorance and revisionism over this gets worse. It has absolutely no bearing on things except to highlight how utterly corrupt political thinking is in the USA. Jeeze in Britain anyone would have been turfed out for this. Here idiots are still arguing over the obvious and lying even about what the charges were in the case. What a joke of a political process. It's like a fucking banana republic when it comes to intellectual honesty in politics here.

That is a conveniently vague and self-serving remark. At least you're not denying that he perjured himself, your weak smokescreen is no substitute for a denial.

At least the Bible gets its history right, unlike you with the Council of Nicea legend. You kill me, Kallend. Where did you get this bunk? fairytales.org? or deceit.com? Oh gee, no joke I make about its source is half as funny as you posting such nonsense. See Note E. at the bottom of this page for the punchline. Get serious. Why would you object to this? Selections were made, and it seems that some system involving random chancewould at least give some avenue for divine selection if you believe in that sort of thing. I mean if you believe in divine guidance and the canonical "Word" including the translation process then why on earth would you get hot and bothered about the specifics of the mechanism. The faithful pick the strangest battles to fight. I think the trees are obscuring the forrest for you.

I'm not indignant at all, it's just a simple fact. Are you really in such denial that you cannot accept this? Should anyone who accepts the facts in this case instantly be tarred with the vast rigt wing conspiracy brush? Look, if you think he didn't lie under oath you are either delusional or unfamiliar with the facts, it's really that simple. As for the larger picture, I think what Ken Starr did is pretty low and Linda Tripp too (well who knows since we weren't in her shoes when she was asked to lie under oath), but none of this has bearing on the FACT that Clinton perjured himself. Both Clinton and Lewinski lied in the Paula Jones case to hide the truth, that case was initially dismissed unfairly as a result and ultimately Clinton paid $850,000 in damages to his victim.

LOL this is what you call cutting off your nose to spite your face. Good luck with that investment guys.

He was guilty, that's not bashing it's a statement of fact and only the dishonest or ignorant would deny it. The phrase you're looking for is "high crimes and misdemeanors", you omitted that last part.

Well that's an assumption, but we still know for a FACT that Clinton lied under oath during what you call a "GOP driven" lawsuit. The subsequent punishment he received would have happened to any lawyer caught in the same lie. Calling these few simple facts into question is politically driven. I don't think anyone can deny that he was guilty of lying under oath with any credibility, and for this he was caught & punished. "And I'd have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you pesky lawyers putting the squeeze on Lewinski." It is a matter of record that Jones's legal fund was supplied primarily by the Rutherford Institute, a right wing think tank. $50,000 was given by Washington tax lawyer and conservative activist William Lehrfeld. This does not mitigate Clinton's crime, he lied under oath. If the GOP funded it that just makes him a bigger fool.

It failed but he was unquestionably guilty of lying under oath.

Guilty or not, the admission late resulted in a new trial which he had to settle for an undisclosed sum. An 'innocent' man wouldn't have had to pay a dime. Well there's innocence from lying under oath and innocence from the accusation of sexual harassment and you're mixing the two now. Naturally if he'd told the truth he might have lost the lawsuit in the first place, admitting that you're currently having sex with your staff doesn't look good in a sexual harassment case, which is of course why he chose to lie under oath.

Well that's an assumption, but we still know for a FACT that Clinton lied under oath during what you call a "GOP driven" lawsuit. The subsequent punishment he received would have happened to any lawyer caught in the same lie. Calling these few simple facts into question is politically driven. I don't think anyone can deny that he was guilty of lying under oath with any credibility, and for this he was caught & punished. "And I'd have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you pesky lawyers putting the squeeze on Lewinski."

Here. He was of course disbarred from practicing law before the Supreme Court and suspended and fined in Arkansas. He did lie under oath in the Paula Jones lawsuit. It's absolutely black & white, you have to claim he never had the affair with Lewinski to maintain he was innocent and if you're really claiming Clinton never had an affair with Lewinski then Clinton isn't the only one who has problems with the truth. The whole outcome of the political process in congress is tangential to his actual conduct & guilt for which he was punished, it only serves to illustrate that politics corrupts law.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/13/pentagon.detainees.ap/index.html You can sleep soundly at night with this guy around, until they come for you.

It's a dirty big question mark over the airworthiness. Rigs are tested ad nauseum and meet stringent requirements in addition to being fielded in large numbers for years. Adding copious quantities of some random chemical mix means anything might happen. There have been historical instances of combinations of materials causing damage. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=acid%20mesh&sb=score&mh=25 Dicking with one rig with a random chemical mix including solvents is potentially a lot worse than you are assuming. Do not do this, it really isn't OK, it's your life on the line or in this case the life of someone you posted to on the internet. Unaltered main flaps on good rigs with great reputations have contributed to fatalities, it really doesn't need an arts & crafts project added.

Then why tell some newbie about it?

Note the cut in laterals on the first rig.