birdynamnam

Hmm the Storm was never really "developed" for wingsuiting, it was developed for CRW. It was then suddenly marketed as made for Wingsuiting by PD (and some sponsored pilots). Someone pls correct me if that is not true. There seem to be 4 canopies on the market that has been developed specifically for Wingsuiters in the skydiving environment and wich could be grouped into two categories: 1) Lo po materials: Squirrel Epicene and PD Horizon 2) ZP (lo po as an option): Atair Winx and Aerodyne Pilot-7 for 1) you have lower bulk, but you also need to up-size a lot in order to have a decent flare under all circumstances and larger canopy brings packvolume back up. Add to that the canopies degrades fast in comparison to ZP canopies. It would great to have some comparisons from non-sponsored people btw these two. Right now we have only marketing materials and marketing people claiming this and that for 2) you have somewhat larger bulk given ZP but you can use "normal" skydiving wl and you enjoy better flight characteristics and much better landings off course and for 1000+ jumps. Btw these two a comparison from non sponsored people would also be nice.

This is a very "hot" topic. A moving target. Suit classes small, intermediate, big. Not that simple anymore, you have largish small suits now, you have smallish intermediates now, you have small bigsuits, and then still the giant suits. Suit Progression is there for safety reasons. And to progress skills, it is much more difficult to learn acro tricks on a too-big suit. Much easier to do that on a smallish suit. Also, everybody knows that having one suit is not enough today, you must have a set of suits eventually, small/intermediate for acro and "normal" flocking or coaching, big for high speed flocking, XRW, performance comp's, etc... You have people who happen to have a standard body-size, they can just up-size in small steps buying used gear. Some people can't do that and are naturally looking to skip a class here and there in order to spend a little less money and one could argue that these money where better spent on upgrading skills in current wingsuit, yeah??. So are micro-steps frequently upgrading suits involving getting used to many new suits rather than being able to focus on skills doing fewer upgrades - better or worse? Remember we do not just have 3 classes anymore.... We must be. I see this and I travel a'lot: Fun dynamic flocking with new small bigsuit types, grinning people flying fast and agile, just having loads of fun chasing clouds or much more using their Swiss-knife wingsuit that can do all it seems. Looks like that is where most people wants to be? And want to get there as fast as possible in order to fly with their friends. Don't get me wrong though, I certainly think Acro competitions should become "more" popular. We need to have this sort of competitions in the sport to keep it as a real competitive sport. I notice Btw Tony launched his latest Acro suit recently, it's certainly an intermediate design with biggish wings and it looks to be flying very good. Here are some real cases, comment please people... 1) Weekend warrior, FS jumper background and medium active, does FFC, buys a small wingsuit, flies some - mostly solo's, not that successful. At 50-80 WS jumps: get's an intermediate suit, spends 20 jumps on learning the basics getting trying to feel comfortable, try to flock a little, not to great performance though, tries backflying, sort of works. Flies mostly solo's - as friends upgraded. Goes back to FS jumping mostly, then after some time with little flying, at 200 WS jumps, tries a small bigsuit, comes down grinning, wants to get back into WS, it seems like he grows nicely with it and he is more successful in flocking now than ever.... 2) Weekend warrior, freeflyer and talented and ambitious, does FFC, buys a state-of-the art small suit, back flying successfully at around 20ws jumps, participates in performance competition and wins small class, work as a camera flyer on an acro team, becoming WS instructor, now has around 200 ws jumps and high on skills and eager to go to... hmm... Orders a small bigsuit, will receiving close coaching, will do solos getting to know the suit intimately then do some one on one's learning steep, acro, performance, carving, etc.. I think it is perhaps more fruitful if we can discuss this based on some real examples - good and bad - as this discussion really can go haywire because of obsolete or narrow minded or static viewpoints, people discussing here, mostly jumping isolated on their own little dz not seeing so much else out there. On the other hand we can always base everything on what the wingsuit manufacturers recommend which we should off course per default, but we all know they sort of tries to hit common ground. In the end it is up to us dedicated and experienced people to understand where we are heading, making sure people are safe and that they learn efficiently. We will not agree all of us and that is okay with me. I want to hear more experienced people discuss this here, referring to real recent cases, addressing this in a constructive way

I see no problems with your approach, Swift1 is actually classified as an intermediate suit though in the small end and Freak is a "small" advanced class suit and super easy to fly. So given what you wrote, go ahead. Regarding deployments, you have to talk with someone and understand/train a different deployment procedure. Horizontal speed is way up so, you must flare the suit as part of that procedure. It is not difficult though. I trust you have longer bridle, semi stowless bag, bigger pilot chute and a docile main at wl 1.3 max :) I am the happy owner of the original Freak and it is still my favorite suit by far. I have just one jump in the Freak2 so can't say too much. I also fly the C-Race series suits frequently, so my first impression of the Freak 2 is that it has taken in some DNA from the latest race suits, feels like a hybrid btw Freak and a current C-Race - it is more rigid and extremely precise. The original Freak "feeling" is actually still there - luckily so it still does what a Freak do, there is just a bit more of everything. So go for a Freak or a Freak 2. Truly wonderful suits both of them.

VB is 100% a troll

What Bluhdow said

Agree with the general statements you write here. Especially that when you upsize to a larger wingsuit, then you must pay attention to PC, bridlel ength (8-9 feet), linestowes and main tray open corners. Flying a small wingsuit there are seldom problems and you get away with a lot. Upsizing the wingsuit changes that sometimes for people. It is important to fly your deployments, not just curl up and dump, but to keep flying after pitching. That has all been said many times, and there is a nice article available on the topic. I do however not at all agree with you on the canopy developments we have seen lately. Canopies like Epicene, Pilot-7 and Winx, that has all been developed with wingsuiting in mind are noticeably better for wingsuiting than the usual suspects. But then again they are not *required* as you can certainly just use Sabre2's, Pilot's etc especially if you just fly smaller wingsuits. In any case, for those who look to replace their canopy, I would highly recommend to demo those mentioned here. Demoing is the way forward. For me it was an eye-opener honestly, but I also do understand people who are happy flying the normal 9 cells and who do so with no problems, commenting that those are as good. At World's we had a competitor, off course flying a large wingsuit, use double stowing and I noticed he chopped a twice in a row due to too many line twists. I recommended him to go for single stowing, he then switched to tubestowes and the line twists disappeared completely. It was a no brainer really as we all flare the crap out of these high performance wingsuits so his d-bag was wobling/spinning away like crazy during deployments. But then a semi stowless bag offer better line protection, so in this case that would be the best as a next gear upgrade step. When flying larger wingsuits, another no brainer is to have the rigger open up the main tray corners, can be done without any visual side effects on rigs like Vector, Mirage, Icon, etc. Doesn't look too good on Javelin's, but Sunpath does have an upgrade available with some installable folding corner-flaps

Elliptical and wingsuit - never ever a good idea no matter suit. Low wingsuit experience and adding a Gopro snag hazard spiced up with unwanted instant RSL action - dangerous combination. As such not a suit issue, rather this jumper created more dangerous issues here and there for himself. Could have happened with smaller wingsuits as well, would be my point here.

Having jumped hundreds of jumps in many different f-111 7 cell canopies that I owned, and thus knowing how those will have noticeably degrading performance typically starting from aprox 50 jumps - I chose to stay on ZP. For more than a thousand wingsuit jumps, I used the SA2 mostly, then I moved to the Storm150 which was marginally better at openings. I knew that the Pilot would provide better openings, but I never got me a Pilot don't know why. I demoed a Winx150 and immediately ordered one. Openings are fabulous, that's all. Compared to the Storm IMO it has better flying characteristics, has much better flare, and on top of that it packs 10% less. And that is one small packing canopy. So I am finally having a wonderful canopy for wingsuit flying, that I also like "just to fly". For terminal openings, it also opens smoothly and byw it feels soft also. I am sure the Pilot7 is also great, as it has been developed for wingsuit flying - just like the Winx. I heard from some of my friends that the Pilot7 had some brisk openings though. So this "perfect" wingsuit canopy discussion, while it is true you should demo before you buy, can be narrowed down to the two current ZP contenders for the most people. If you want to have a non-ZP canopy you must also think about getting some more sqft's and thus upsize, so even though hybrids and f-111's pack much smaller than zp, you will then have to upsize in most cases and thus the packvolume goes up again. I know there are some folks out there who will now say, nonono you just have to frontriser it... But for wingsuiting, I think it is a must to have a canopy that can land you softly flying just straight in, might come handy some day! I strongly recommend the Winx. Feel free to PM me for any questions

That's odd.. Atair used to measure their canopies different than PD(PIA method). Quote from Atair manual "Atair measures surface area by measuring the span x chord of the bottom skin. Stane Krajnc, the designer of the Troll, feels that this measurement best represents a flying canopy" So a WinX 150 should be bigger than a Storm 150 (equivalent to a Storm 170). Has anyone compared canopy sizes by actually laying them out on the floor? Maybe that's why you feel differences in flight characteristics stronger than they would be if you compared them on equal sizes. Forgot to mention I laid them out on the floor. A Storm 150 is ~same size as Winx 150. Only major difference is that the cell height on the Winx is lower, which might explain the smaller pack volume

The bag was a bit smal for the Storm 150, the Winx150 goes smoothly in. So yeah, Winx is packing slightly smaller

Replaced my Storm 150 with a Winx 150. Can compare to a 9c Pilot also. Winx takes the win - easy and in any area, be it openings and those are just picture perfect, much faster yet they still feel softer. How did Atair do that trick? The flight characteristics; at first I thought a little sluggish compared to the Storm. Well, it just flies a lot flatter as the Storm flies very steep so feel is different. After some jumps I prefer flying the Winx by far - and IMO it is way more fun than e.g. a Pilot same size. landing it, flare power is better than Storm or Pilot. Swooping is comparable but with much less toggle pressure. The flare comes sooner and stays much longer than both the Storm and Pilot. Packvol is slightly less than the Storm. I only do wingsuiting now a'days, I highly recommend the Winx. If you where to go low porosity, you would have to upsize. With Winx you can stay with a WL that you think is fun, yet still have a wingsuit perfect canopy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?utm_medium=email&newsletter=1.+NL+WSC&feature=youtu.be&utm_campaign=1.+NL+WSC&v=6UWdomaTVgE&utm_source=newsletter

true that. But hey a normal AAD does not do much in comparison to this device and I can't even think about A question for Airtec on the normal AAD as I understand what it does and how.

When doing multi WS exits, I always demand from everyone, that all immediately! go 30 degrees to the right or left (whatever) and never ever fly the line-of-flight of the airplane. Would that not have made a difference here you think?

We have to assume that the software that will be embedded, is much more advanced, and that it knows about all the things that you correctly described here, plus more... I am sure that test pilots have been recording data from almost any conceivable situation. We will just have to wait to get those details, I would require to learn about them in great detail before ordering a unit... Current AAD's work very well because they do simple things. This new unit will have to really understand the context that it is used within. I understand the people thinking, would I fly an airplane that is controlled by a Windows PC...Nahh... But think about the complex things that is computerized in Airbus or Boeing airliner today... Sure, it took some trial and errors before that came out well, but the software does handle a myriad of things. The context that the Cypres Wingsuit unit is supposed to know about, is for sure multifaceted, but I would say not that difficult to oversee really. Still, the Cypres AAD is really becoming Cybernetic now...

http://www.cypres.cc/25/wsc.php

Yes, Airtech just announced that they will come out with a Cypres Wingsuit edition: https://www.facebook.com/CYPRES.AAD/videos/vb.144251389424/10153947090604425/?type=2&theater

Just wondering, have you considered the Atair WinX and the Aerodyne Pilot-7? And if not, why? These are two brand new designs, available in z-po and specifically developed for wingsuit use. And then you also have the Squirrel Epicene recently launched.

are U flying downwind or upwind?

what mr. J said

I disagree and the reason for that, is that I as a Wingsuit instructor aim to fly next to my students, in a compatible suit, as you really should demonstrate visually to the student how you are supposed to fly this wingsuit-thing. If you did that in a big-suit, you would be curled completely up, trying to kill it's performance, so the student does not learn much from watching you hurtling along in a mega suit, does he? Many people learn from watching, more than listening or in a combo. And if you then also want to compete in the upcoming FAI Acro competitions, you would need that small acro capable suit also. I know you could do that in a Freak, but I would still argue that the team would be more agile in a small-class suit. So, my advice is to keep the small suit in the closet as you progress to bigger suits. It still has relevance as an instructor suit or competition suit.

sure, it is a gripper less design, you fly with hands free. The thumb loops are optional, you can fly w/o them really. Explained on their website

For "normal" speed flocks and flying with students; keep your good old small suit handy

Have lots of jumps in the Funk, currently flying the Freak. You should be able to fly the Funk-2 w. no problems. Not many have tried the Funk-2, it is after all in pre-order stage. As the wing profile got slimmed down a'lot, just like the Freak, and as is a hands-free design, the pull can be expected to be extraordinary easy. For the first few flights, you can open up the internal pressure vents for even easier handling and pulls