gowlerk

Excellent, lets see if they make an official announcement then. Because so far they haven't said they would do anything to put the resources needed towards fixing the problem or honoring their warranty. They need to spend money on the problem, and they seem to feel very shy about doing so. I am still waiting for them to tell me when they can return my unit and make it good. My inbox is open, but no word from Airtec. Just SSK with excuses. One interpretation of what was said in the interview could just as easily be " we are busy right now making money doing 4 year checks as usual. when we finish that maybe we can find the time to correct some of the defective product we have in the field. It will probably take at least two years, but that's ok." He may be a stand up guy, but what I'm looking for is a stand up company. The reason people are willing to pay a 20% premium in the marketplace for their product is a belief that they are a superior company with a superior product. So stand up and show us. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Don't take this as a defense of CYPRES, but I do think Cliff addressed it pretty head-on in the interview we did. He didn't seem to be ducking any part of it. Well first of all, this is just an interview and just a man talking. That not a firm written promise. Secondly it indicates that they are just fine with taking two years to fix the defect caused by failing to adequate test the new component. Third the condescending attitude of "what's the problem, it's just a simple button push" completely ignores the fact that it was sold as set it and forget it device. They have published an SB stating that it is mandatory to check it before every jump. That is not going to happen consistently. The device can not be used in the manner designed, according to Airtec's SB. Some may find that acceptable, I do not. Addressing the matter head on requires communicating a REAL PLAN to CUSTOMERS, not a soothing interview at an industy trade show. But thanks for asking him about it, it's the only info I've managed to get from this secretive outfit. They won't talk to a mere customer about it at all. Ken I've edited this to remove words that called the interviewer an "insider" That was completely unfair and implied a bias that I'm sure does not exist. Again, thank you for the interview and all your hard work. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Where's the like button? We need a like button for stuff like this. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

I'm with you on that. All I want is a single blade and a breakoff warning. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Where are you getting your batteries from? I've bought mail order ones that were quite old and feeble on arrival. Ken Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Believe me, I considered doing that. And yes, Cyprus and CYPRES are both having a bad week. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

This is exactly what I want to hear. But from Airtec. SSK currently has my wife's CYPRES and a request for warranty service. I am in contact with both companies and all I get get is excuses about being busy and condescending answers about it being "just a simple button push". So far the level of unwillingness to even acknowledge that they are responsible for fixing the problem in a timely fashion is nearly breathtaking. (OK, that is hyperbole, but you get the point) When I ask for a time line for this repair, all I get is that maybe in 3 months or so they may be able to tell me how much longer. It is now at the point that I am considering my options to try to involve consumer protection agencies in Canada, the US and the EU for assistance. However, if Airtec would simply let me know that they intend to do something about the problem I would not even dream of doing that. The bottom line is that if they intend to take real responsibility for this defect in a timely matter they need to inform me and all other affected customers very soon. Ken Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

I'm not sure what this means, other than maybe your mother should not let you out the sandbox so often. For what it's worth I don't use it, my wife does. But she has indeed stopped and says she won't start again till it's fixed. Thanks for your input. Ken Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

While you're schmoozing with the Airtec people maybe you could find a way to politely bring up the fact that they are currently doing a huge amount of damage to their brand. As far as I can tell they feel that they can deal with 4 years of defective product by continuing business as usual. If they are making any effort at all to increase their service capacity to fix the problem they are failing to communicate it to their customers. If you feel that taking 4 years to fix the product and charging customers to do it is not reasonable, please take the time to let them know. They are running the risk of turning from the company that gives the customer the peace of mind of the 4 year check to the becoming the company that merely uses it as a lame excuse to not honour their product warranty. While their customer wonders on every jump if they remembered to double check if the device is still working. Ken Gowler Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

They have sent an email acknowledging that they have received it. That's all for now. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

You are indeed mistaken. That would be one possible solution. People sure do get emotional around the whole subject of AADs. They have and will continue to save lives. That said, too many people put too much trust and faith in these devices and then feel anyone without one is somehow unsafe. As the label says, it's only a backup. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Your bad mood is showing today. I just gotta disagree with this. Skydiving is an adult sport and people are entitled to make up there own minds about this. And FWIW price does matter. At least to me it does. I've never owned an AAD myself, I only use them for tandem. The only reason I don't own one is the price. Ken Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

FWIW I've never known Sunrise to understate what will fit into their containers. Anytime I've put in the most they recommend it's been VERY tight. I would tend to believe them if they say 150 is the max. Maybe you should get a larger container, or a small main depending on your needs and save yourself some trouble later. Your packer will thank you. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

It could be interesting getting testing done for a cutter alone outside the context of a complete system. I'm having a hard time imagining an system that grants approval on a device depending on the particular cutter used. Getting complicated here. Or a DZ like Skydive AZ which refuses to allow an Argus to be used in any container, approved or not. Are they supposed to somehow determine the cutter model? Of course none of these obstacles are impossible to overcome. I'd love to see more choice in AADs. Having just one main one, or even two leaves us too dependent on the health of the company. And it's ability to serve the market. Witness the current problem with the large percentage of the devices out there under the cloud of an SB with no apparent ability to do clear it up in less than 4 years. No to mention the shortage caused by the production disruption. More options would lessen this risk. The size of the potential market for replacement Argus cutters is likely a sizable portion of the total of them produced. Most people who own them would jump at the chance to use them again. Probably to the tune of up tp $200 per unit. I don't own one myself, but if I did I would consider that a bargain. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

It would seem to me that the Argus was once approved, but that some approvals were withdrawn due to the cutter issue. As I remember it ended with the cutter manufacturer deciding to discontinue supplying them. This made it no longer possible to sell the Argus, approved or not. If you have a suitable cutter, and Aviacom have a unit already designed, tested and proven but with no cutter supplier it would seem obvious that there is a potential for a business arrangement here. Ken Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Thank you. I'm glad to see that the level of the discourse around this issue has improved greatly. The main reason I posted in the first place was to let the group know that I had decided to send the unit to SSK for repair under warranty and that we would see what happened. I did not say that all these units are doorstops. I said that once it was decided to remove the unit from service until it's repaired mine may as well be. I'd rather have it sit in the SSK building than my desk. It won't get repaired here. I must confess that I do have enough FUD in me that I do not entirely trust that the unit can only misfire under the limited conditions stated. This partly grows out of the understanding that it is in Airtec's best interest that this be so, and I hope it's correct. But Airtec's best interest is not my best interest. FUD can be misused, but it is not a bad thing. We would not be here without it. I do not advocate that these units be pulled, only that in our case that is the decision we have come to. And I'm not wanting to rehash the AAD argument in general but I stand by the simple statement that only a small benefit is received in this case. I chose those words carefully. Do not read into them any more or less than they say. I am curious about the fix for this. I had assumed it would be replacing the component, but the FAQ states only that there is both a software and a hardware aspect to it, and that the original component is no longer available. I'm not sure why they need to be so murky about this, but I do feel there may be a reason they aren't more clear. As to seeing what will happen with the unit the UPS tracking indicates that they received it 7 days ago. They have not yet acknowledged that, or answered my request for warranty service. Under the circumstances I can understand that and I will give them another 7 days before I inquire about it. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Agreed, but the price was full retail. I'd like to trade it for a new one minus the one year of use it has. I fact I've asked Airtec to do that. But I know they won't. This one is tougher. We don't really know what the odds are. We do know that Airtec felt it was necessary to mention it in the SB, and that they would like to down play it. Since I don't know what the odds are why would I chance it? Any AAD could fire at any time, but these ones are known to have a component that have caused a misfire, and that the manufacturer feels needs to be replaced. There is a large difference there. The only reason they are not recalling the units is that it would be logistically difficult. An experienced skydiver with a proven record of handling EPs only gets a small benefit from using an AAD. I'm sure you don't need to be reminded of when no one used them. And why they didn't. I did notice that you stated you've made thousands of jumps with people using them, and not that you use one yourself. I will also continue to jump with people using them. Also my call. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

I don't really care about the extra check or the fact that it may not fire. The only thing that matters to me is that the problem has been linked to a misfire. Misfires can have disastrous consequences. I'm not sure what FUD is, but I suspect it is another of the ways you like to use to ridicule other people. Like calling them "silly" or accusing them of having an "agenda." Your technical knowledge is impressive, but you do not have access to Airtec's data, so your analysis is meaningless. I do not agree with your definition of faulty. I use the word " faulty" because the unit contains a component that the manufacturer has determined must be replaced before the unit can be trusted to work as designed. I am not happy about the situation, but neither do I particularly blame Airtec, nor do I think they are lying. They do however have an agenda that is different from mine. That is just a fact of being a for profit business. I also am not discouraging others from using affected units. Just today I installed one in a customer's rig. I sat down with him and made sure he had read and understood the SB. I didn't tell him what my wife had decided about hers. He had already decided to just go along with Airtec's plan for now. It is a brand new unit DOM 11/12. Interestingly enough, I had thought that they had suspended production before this, but apparently not. As far as statistics go, I will paraphrase Samuel Clement. There are three kinds of lies. In order of severity they are lies, then damned lies, and then statistics. How well other components are tested is irrelevant to the subject at hand. I am aware that there have so far only been a small number of cases. I hope it stays that way. But it will not surprise me if it doesn't. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Not bad. I've got to say you've got guts to even attempt this and post the link here. Already some are attacking you and accusing you of advertising. My advice for what it's worth is to add a disclaimer to the intro at the top saying that this advice is only meant as a starting point and that newbs should consult their local riggers and instructors as well as getting good general ideas from your excellent article. That may help keep some noses from getting out of joint. Of course it also makes things muddier for them, but maybe that's appropriate. Ken Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Thanks, but there is a 6 hour time limit for edits, so I can't. I wanted to try the inline attachment thing so I'm doing it again. Still is not working, but both times it did work when I previewed the post. Something buggy going on here. Ken [inline gopro.JPG] Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Here's another dumb gopro setup. I asked him why he would take a relatively small and potentially safe camera and do his level best to make it as dangerous as he could. He's a good friend, but he refused to see anything wrong with it. No cutaway system either. It's worked so far, what could go wrong? Ken [inline 600_2544-001.JPG ] Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

I am not sure what YOUR agenda is. But I want to assure you that nothing ANYONE has said in this forum has in anyway influenced our decision to remove this unit from service and return it under warranty to have it's defect corrected. We decided this after reading the SB. The unit can not be trusted to perform is intended function, and the defect has been linked to a misfire. My wife has been in a two out situation before, due to a p/c in tow, and no, there was not an AAD firing involved. She escaped that uninjured, but does not want to chance another one. If she wanted to be "statistically" safe, she would stop jumping. She wants a non-defective AAD, that's what she paid for. You don't seem to be capable of understanding any viewpoint but your own. Go ahead and jump your faulty CYPRES, (or do you even have one?) If it was really OK to continue using these why did Airtec stop production? How many lives will be lost due to unavailability of AADs? I'm not willing to wait 3 years and then pay them to correct the problem. Let them spend some of the money they use for advertising to fix this flaw. This company likes to take shots at their competition in their ads, it's about time they ate a nice slice of humble pie. And it's about time you learn to respect view points different from your own. You are correct that no one here has a clue what's going on, but you fail to see that includes you. Airtec carefully chooses what information to release, and when to release it. And even if they shared everything it would be highly technical. The armchair engineers here would immediately start misinterpreting it. The bottom line for me is that the unit is faulty and needs repair. How simple is that? Do you work for or have any connection to Airtec? Is your unit affected? Ken Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Silly? I resent that. But if it makes you feel better my wife who owns it does not consider it a paperweight. She considers it a door stop. It does not do what was advertised to do. Would you buy an affected one with your money? Now THAT would be silly. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Talk about "ESD" and where and when it can occur and what the effects may be is just techno mumbo jumbo to me. The bottom line is that these units contain a component that have caused a misfire and therefore need to be replaced. Experienced jumpers with proven ability to perform EPs under real world conditions only receive a small benefit from using an AAD. Any risk of a misfire outweighs that benefit in my estimation. And that of my wife, who actually owns one of these. (04/12 DOM, same as the reported firing on the mat) Accordingly I have removed it from her rig as she requested. This means it is nothing but an expensive paper weight until it is repaired. So I have sent it to SSK with a request that it be repaired under the terms of their warranty. I anticipate that she will be jumping without an AAD for the whole season here in Canada. I don't like it very much, but I can't say that I am angry with Airtec. They are between a rock and a hard place here. They could ground them all until repaired, or let people use them until repairs can be scheduled. They seem to have made the calculation that the potential good of having an AAD is greater than the potential risk of a catastrophe caused by a misfire. I sincerely hope they are correct. Ken Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

It will be interesting to see the reaction to this in the "Nanny" states with National organizations that like to ground things in a hurry. EU countries and Australia come to mind. Some of them were pretty quick to jump on the Argus. I'm glad the CSPA T&S committee has not been able to ram through a mandatory AAD rule yet. Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.