AlexCrowley

I'm sorry but Windows was never intended to be secure and was bolted on afterwards. The various *nixes have a 20 year headstart on Windows. We know that MS finally realized they'd screwed themselves when they decided to totally rewrite longhorn - THANK GOD. This isnt a fanboy attitude, hell I use a little of everything depending on the job at hand. Windows presents the following happy bonuses to hackers: A nice stable standard kernel, and due to its closed nature theres a lot ofnice overflows to play with (direct quote from a very high profile hacker - as seen in Wired magazine...heh heh heh). Popularity just made it visible, but no more so than a *nix. it's the lack of openness that ensures plenty of opportunities to exploid the system. Once you tie that into a system that pretty much overrides sensible security mechanisms and allows for automated replication with very few roadblocks and you get some pretty cool nastiness. We can talk about raw sockets, stupid crypto key lengths and limited key entropy in Window's implementation of password security if you'd like. Or that tying user space applications into the system kernel as a bad design concept. OR just the simple mess thats involved with trying to evolve an operating system while remaining a slave to backward compatibility. The exciting thing about the vista approach is simply that Microsoft are no longer playing the arrogant technology role, they're looking at history and designs that have worked in the past. A monolothic system is ALWAYS a really bad idea. You're forver playing whackamole and eventually you have something so complex that a 1000000 QA test cases aren't going to be enough to catch the significant showstopping bugs. The Times or WSJ (dont remember which) had a great article at the beginning of the week about how MS have watched Google and realized that it's only going to survive by creating a plug-in style architecture. Of course, anyone near technology in the last 8 years or so knows something about object oriented programming, and anyone who's paid attention will realize that most people use it for exactly the wrong reasons. however, with some discipline and forethought taking the concept and creating truly reusable code and then architecting lightweight components that fit together cleanly and simply allow for some stunningly elegant and effective applications. It's that sort of vision that has pushed open source programming forward rapidly, its MS's complete ignorance of that model that generally raises the ire of many developers and tech geeks. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

You're obviously new to Speakers Corner if that comes as a shock to you. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Yup, there will always be exploits. The major difference is that Apple has a sane architecture and security model which minimizes the risk to a very large extent. By not having all the tied in convenience of Windows there's a much higher barrier of entry in creating malicious Mac software. Even on Windows if you don't use MS internet products you're almost bullet proof. If you dont use Office on top of that you'll have to work hard to get infected. I just spent a few years without virus scans and without using Outlook or IE and when I eventually did scan I had a couple of inactive nasties in a cache file for firefox but nothing that had a chance of replicating. Any system can be exploited. Windows gets whacked more because it's security out of the box is shit. I dont think comparing Windows architectural flaws to the odd forkbomb or buffer overflow is a reasonable comparison. Numberswise, my network does a great deal of traffic, an amount that makes Cisco engineers eye's grow very large. Looking at snort it would appear that there is a great deal of Windows exploits compared to *nix based attacks. Considering their installed base is roughly even (actually the *nixes are slightly ahead if the numbers haven't changed too much recently). Grepping quickly through a web servers log shows a lot of attempted windows attacks compared to a very low incidence of Unix specific ones. So no, I wouldnt say 'plenty' of nastiness on Unix, unless you're going to say 'an enormously large number of nasty things to do to windows. If that didnt make sense its because i'm hitting hour 24. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Sorry I might have missed your original point, only the rest of the conversation was about people over-reacting based on largely innocent talk. The dangers of 18 hours shifts :) TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

I seem to recall that when Queen Victoria was presented the bill to criminalize homosexuality in the UK she refused to believe that women would lower themselves to such acts and had all references to lesbianism removed before she would let it be passed into law. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

I can't send a *.ps file to most Windows users because they don't have the software to view it. Adobe does a good job too. Uh huh. You obviously didnt RTFA. "he state of Massachusetts has finalized a proposed move to an open, nonproprietary format for office documents, a plan that involves phasing out versions of Microsoft's Office productivity suite deployed in the state's executive branch agencies." PDF is owned by Adobe, making it proprietary and just as vulnerable to corporate greed as MS Office ever was (unless you've not been watching Adobe for the last 15 years) Open Office opens most closed formats and generates documents in a variety of open ones, I'd imagine that would be where they're heading. The latest version of OO is actually pretty respectable compared to its earlier incarnations. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Old Macs had fewer infection vectors because they didnt let processes run rampant across the entire system. New Mac architecture is based on BSD's model, which makes infection just as difficult and any possible damage kept to a minimum. The reason MS gets so many virii is because MS programmed for convenience and not security. Which is why it's a total nightmare to lock down a Windows network, especially if you want it to be usable. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

You obviously blocked out the huge uproar that particular ditty caused. Police departments across the US protested. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Ooops, sorry about that. You're right. We agree. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

In the UK there was 'Allo 'Allo, which dealt with the French occupation. However, I do want to see The Cell, it sounds like my kind of show. The WWF/E just dropped a storyline about an arab american wrestler due to pressure from ...oh, the entire universe, after a mock terrorist attack and various other jihad inspired japes. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

I'm not sure I agree. I think the book can have relevence in a real way, and in some churches it does. I think the majority of the problems come from trying to make sense of it all very literally, something which it was not designed for. Context has much meaning. Understanding that the Jews were beaten and exiled, that the northern Jews and southern Jews had very different attitudes towards royalty, or even that the Eloists were monotheistic vs Yehwah as a tribal deity actually allow the early texts to make sense in a way that reading them off the page does not. Knowing that chronologically Paul's letters were the first written, and which ones are undoubtably authored by him vs his followers vs possible fakes shed light on early christianity. Knowing which gospel was written first, which ones editorialized it, which ones drew from the Quell documents and which were an amalgamation of several texts lets you see how things were progressing in the Christian church. I think that Christians tend to be blinded by their scripture, they dont seem to really pay attention to those parts of it that dont fit with their view of what their religion is. Belief tends to dull critical thinking. The Bibles a large book and guidance from peer groups and clergy play a large part of a new Christian's introduction to the religion (or indoctrination if you'd prefer). I also think stagnation is the larger issue. The Christian church has become a fragmented mess, some have regressed into literalism, some believe that God no longer talks directly to us but left a book (I will NEVER work that one out !), and some desperately cling to the past as I mentioned earlier. Above it all they all claim to be part of the same religion (and will justify it by explaining they all believe in Jesus) even though their interpretation of scripture is radically different. While the believers remain blind to it the non-Christian s see it's divisions clearly, and because they have no allegience to the book they are also able to see the contradictions, the outdated concepts, historical and scientific errors. The Church, by vigorously denying any such thing continues to look redundant and irrelevent to the majority of modern society. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Considering I've mentioned David and Jonathan at least twice on this forum and no one has ever tried to debate it I've put down the present mindset to selective ignorance. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Did you hear a whooshing sound when you read the first post? TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

I find prejudice fascinating. Is it that people lack the ability to reflect on themselves and honestly evaluate their thoughts on various issues or is it simply a knee jerk ignorance that is absorbed via osmosis? Are some people raised in a tunnel visioned, self-ignorant environment where they really can't see that their position isnt based on any facts but is an irrational fear based response to a situation that they are unable to understand and therefor threatens their traditional view of the world and reality. One could arguably say that the races have equality - except for a small minority of hardliners racism itself is rarely tolerated. You could also make the same argument about women and their place in society. These seem to be about 50 years apart. Womens right to equality, racial equality, now gay equality? In a couple of decades will some of us look back at the turn of the 21st century and squirm a little as we recall how closed minded we were, or will we still be playing word games and throwing out inaccurate stereotypes as justification for our own prejudice? Within the church will we see a move away from using scripture to justify it, in the same way that we no longer use it to justify slavery and racism, or how we now play semantics with the womans role when we match it against the biblical law? Or will the church continue to make itself more and more irrelevent to the majority by stubbornly refusing to adapt (as it has many times before), and instead continue to grow into it's role as the last holdout of the fearful and stubborn? This is why I believe fundamentalism and religious conservatism have recently gained momentum - it's so primieval in its approach that it gives comfort to the frightened primitive part of the mind that recognizes the speed at which society is moving and is desperately grasping at something to make the chaos relevent. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Pilot placed on No Fly List. So, the TSA have cancelled fast checkins for frequent flyers, are still going to roll out the Secure Flight initiative, albeit without commercial data in it. It still remains to be seen how exactly the No Fly list is going to be used accurately. "Remember what the no-fly list is. It's a list of people who are so dangerous that they can't be allowed to board an airplane under any circumstances, yet so innocent that they can't be arrested -- even under the provisions of the PATRIOT Act." - Bruce Schneier I realize that there's a very large emotional reaction from American's in response to 911 (very passionate "NEVER AGAIN!!" type reactions), but so far the TSAs response has been almost totally assbackward - creating an illusion of security for the public while either increasing the risk in some areas or simply maintaining the status quo. That the No Fly list hasn't caused public outcry constantly baffles me. There's a situation where any US citizen or resident can be put on a list that effectively halts their ability to travel yet cannot be defended against in a court of law. Those cases where the court have tried to find out details have been rebuffed due ot national security issues, leaving the victim with absolutely no answers or recourse. But thank god they have my taking my shoes off at security! I feel safer! TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Martyring them would seem to be counter productive. Capturing them and having them do tv commercials for beer companies and starring in Queer Eye for the Jihad Guy might be more a more effective tool for demoralizing the enemy. Follow that up with touring on the adult night club circuit as headliners for Naked Bimbo Bacon Grease Wrestling and I think think Al Quaida would run out of steam rather quickly. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Well, except for the vagina and womb thing being necessary for childbirth. Unless your argument is that a penis is required for a priest so he can ..........what? TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

I like to think of them as a set of plans 'on display' in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

less talky, more posting pictures of boobies. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Sink, you're misreading me and getting yourself worked up over a miscommunication. This'll be the third time I've said it, this time I wont include the joke comment. Relax and take a breath. I do not think you have any issues with any gay people. Sorry you read what I said as a personal comment to you (except the bit in my last post when I asked you about hating gay people, which was a joke that was picked up on by 99% of the people reading it). Are we good? So, how long have you been a homosexual lover? TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Ok SR, when do you think homosexuality will be accepted by the church as being ok? If I kill you to prove a point I still have broken a commandment, yes? Jesus himself gets to do whatever he wants - that's not really the argument here from what I can see. The argument is about man's decision to follow some of God's rules and not others as written in their scripture, by people who say they use scripture as their guidebook for Gods laws. God's history in the Old Testament and his evolution are more to do with the various authors of the books, the influence of several jewish factions, and how they were revised over the centuries rather than God himself deciding he was going to be a little nicer this century than last. Which is why you have a monotheistic higher power vs a stereotypical tribal god of anger, vanity and demands of subservience. - ( I guess this is why there's many books on biblical scholarship available - too many people remain unaware of the way the bible was compiled over time to reflect the beliefs and needs of the day). TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Hmm.... Their security roles model was pretty innovative, sorta. It's a pity that generally their implementation of security was so lacklustre. MS was never about innovation but about accessibility for the common user. They excelled in this area, arguably at the expense of a solid infrastructure, security and reliability. The trick with technology is that its rarely the first to market guy that wins. It's the guy who sits back, gauges reaction to the first guys product line and then cherry picks and improves on the successful ones. R & D and Marketing expenses paid for by your competition, it's really smart thinking, you then just reverse engineer whatever the gizmo is and repackage it in a way thats 'good enough' and 'cheap enough' for widespread adoption. This is fastfood culture, quality gave way to speed and convenience. Apple have been making innovative and technically excellent products for over 2 decades and are worshiped by a core group that cares about these things. Most people simply want a box that will let them do stuff, they dont care enough to spend much, they dont know enough to demand excellence, just enough to get them from A to B. Same way we buy cheap little reliable cars over performance sports cars that are wonders of engineering. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

No there's not. God said 'women should be silent in church' and it's considered outdated in the 20th century. God may have said 'Being gay is bad' and it's still accepted as a religious rule. While you may be able to perform these sorts of mental gymnastics I am still looking for the book of the Bible that says "Ok, some of that stuff about women was a little harsh so just forget about it, but that gay thing? oh wow, yeah I was serious....no really. Screw those episcopilians man, they dont know what they're talking about" Which he obviously said in the voice of Joe Pesci. Now was the book after Revelation or was it a special insert available to the Chosen? Look, i'm sorry you're sensitive but I figured you'd know that I'd call you out on hating gay people directly rather than slip it into a comment that i simply worded badly. So, why do you hate gay people so much anyway? TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Apparently Im digging myself into a hole i thought i was digging out of.... Sink: your opinion on the gay debate are not what I was refering to and do not matter. i was not making a judgement call. My original point was that there's very little to be offended about when discussing a woman wearing a hat where as a guy with his dick in another guy is a more provocative subject. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Woah, stop plagarising my stuff. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.