377

. Sorry if I was mistaken. Ralph Himmelspach told me that, not Jerry himself. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I think he got a good chute Dan. Jerry doesnt. He is retired Special Forces. They don't rack up as many jumps as skydivers do but their jumps are usually more challenging. Maybe he will go on video for you. I respect his opinion. It's possible that Cooper went in as a no pull. I just have a more optimistic outlook. Also, whuffo skyjackers DID jump out of passenger jets and managed to deploy. It's been done. It's not theoretical. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Dan wrote Not completely. We have a description of shoes that seem to be a very poor choice for the jump. Jerry and I go round and round about whether Cooper had any relevant experience (jumper, aircrew, etc). I can't reconcile the shoes (loafers? ankle boots?) with being experienced. I do think other evidence suggests that he was experienced. It is a puzzle. It's easy to suggest that he had appropriate clothing, other footwear, a radio and various items concealed, but there is no evidence to support this. So Dan, when are you planning to ID your suspect? If its McCoy then expect some strong pushback. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blevins wrote They will do neither. That's my prediction. That hedges their bets. It buys them time. If they screwed up, a press release now just calls attention to it. In time, everyone but dropzombies will forget all about Marla and LD. Sometimes it's hard to separate what the FBI said from what Marla claims they said. The FBI said she was a credible witness and that they did not get a DNA match. Isn't the rest all from Marla? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger wrote If Norman's claim is true then his obtaining the chute back means he had to prove ownership. Evidence in the custody of the FBI isn't just given to whoever asks for it. I can't find any record of a federal court lawsuit over this chute. It was probably not an actual lawsuit but rather an administrative claim. Still, no big deal. We believe with reasonable certainty that Cooper jumped a surplus Navy bailout rig with a stock military round canopy. That's a good rig for the jump. It can take a high speed opening. We know he exited and we have a reasonable estimate of approximately where it occurred. After that, it's all speculation. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It's sure not definitive about chute ownership but who cares? I think it makes a pretty good circumstantial case that the two main rigs were bailout rigs not sport rigs with sleeves, D rings, etc. Cossey is puzzling. He allegedly says different things about the rigs at different times. His sig is on Norman's civilian Pioneer bailout rig packing card, so his claim about not knowing who Norman is doesn't sound correct. Maybe it's just faded memory, no deceptive intent. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Nope. Definitely bailout rigs. Thoroughly researched. See Bruce's posts. He dug deep, interviewed Cossey (rigger) and Norman Hayden (owner). http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/ Bruce even got recent photos of the rig Cooper left behind. It was a civilian bailout rig, made by Pioneer. No D rings were on either bailout rig making chest reserves useless. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Quade, As far as I can tell Cooper jumped with a bail out rig, not a sport rig. It was either an NB6 or an NB8 harness-container with a C9 canopy. No deployment sleeve, and probably no drive/steering vents. The rig was intended for use by an acro pilot. You appear to have a different opinion. Can you explain the basis? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am not a rigger or chute designer, just a jumper, but I can tell you that my military back pack opened just fine in a horrible spin. I was modified for sport jumping by adding a sleeve, but that shoudlnt have made much difference. I've only had two reserve deployments and neither involved a spin. I can't see where either would be ill suited for opening in a spin. They used a powerful spring loaded pilot chute to get the pilot chute away from the jumper and begin to extract the canopy. I saw many spin openings back in the 60s among beginning freefall students. I never saw anyone get wrapped up in lines or cause a malfunction because they opened in a spin. The system really worked well. Really well. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Orange asked Oh I was taught that from the very outset. I just wasnt that good a learner. I had low skill and very high determination. That's actually not a bad combo for a student jumper. You perservere. You don't give up. You eventually figure it out. I can't tell you how excited I was when I finally mastered stable freefall. I was on cloud nine. I still am. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

What Quade and others says about there being no instinct for stable freefall is true. I learned to jump in 1968. No AFF. No tunnel training. Just a few static line jumps with dummy rip cord pulls and then they threw you out of the plane solo to teach yourself freefall. I can personally attest to stable freefall being non intuitive. I made elaborate plans to be the exception. I was going to show them by making perfect stable jumps from the outset. I practiced in a swimming pool, exhaling to get neutral buoyancy and then going spread eagle with a strong arch. I was solid as a rock. I'd show those jumpmasters a thing or two next weekend. It all went to hell. Even on short delays I was turning or flipping or both. On one memorable 30 second delay I got into a horribly tight spin at about 15 sec and couldn't arrest it. My training taught me to pull under those circumstances and I did. I was certain I'd be wrapped up in deploying lines but got a completely normal spin stopping canopy deployment. After a while you learn, but it sure doesn't come naturally. They let little kids fly in our local tunnel. I've seen 3 and 4 year olds put teens to shame in very quick learning of freefall stability skills. It's quite amazing. Still, it has to be learned. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If Cooper were inexperienced, an immediate tumble/spin at night could have caused severe panic. A no pull is a definite possibility under those circumstances. It's happened even to experienced jumpers who have panicked on clear sunny days. They go in with no handles pulled. If Cooper were an experienced jumper I think he deployed and got a good canopy. The shoes say inexperienced. So do the clothes. He also didn't seem to know how to lower the stairs and needed help, but he wasn't planning on having to lower them. He wanted a stairs down takeoff. The choice of a 727, the aircraft configuration commands and the rig choice say experienced or at least aircraft and gear savvy. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Yes!!! I love DC 3s and yours is a real beauty Dan. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Lazy Perris Buzzards. They obviously get too many handouts and second hand DZ smoke. Elsinore or Taft birds would have had Vlad picked to the bone in no time. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Very suspicious Airtwardo. Matches Janet's sighting pretty closely. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904; You got an alibi? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If he pulled right off the stairs he'd be OK. No spin and hanging under an open chute. Look at the slo mo video Snow made of the Air America 727 jumps. No spin, no tumble. A squidding canopy decelerates the jumper smoothly. If he delayed the pull, big trouble. As soon as he hit the air beyond the area shielded by the plane KABOOM. In the WFFC jet jumps many people tumbled on exit. Fanny packs and velcroed wrist altimeters were ripped off a few people. My tight goggles were ripped off my face. Only my helmet over the strap held them on. No big deal. Sunny day. Perfect horizon. No asymmetrical payload bag. In a few seconds the experienced jumpers stabilized. BUT, the way you stabilize is to orient yourself with the horizon AND a heading reference. On a cloudy night you might have NEITHER. You can arch hard and you will end up belly to earth, but you can't stop a spin without a heading reference. An unchecked spin can increase in rotational speed until the jumper blacks out. An attached payload bag, unless tightly fastened and presenting a symmetrical drag profile relative to the jumper, will cause a spin. At the symposium I showed photos of a test jump I did with a large canvas bag affixed to one leg. It wasn't carrying loot, just radio telemetry gear. During initial freefall that bag almost flipped me over. I managed to compensate with my body. My exit speed was low (about 75 knots). If I had hit the airstream at Coopers exit speed I'd have gone unstable. In daylight I could have fixed it, especially as I slowed down to 120 mph terminal velocity. At night with no horizon or heading reference I don't think I could have stabilized. So I only agree with Jerry in one exit scenario, a delayed pull. If Cooper knew to pull right off the stairs I think he was stable, got a good chute and landed alive. After that I can't say. A water landing at night could easily be fatal. Even if he alighted on ground there could be problems. I've done a jet jump. I've made three jumps with a big bag. I've made jumps with a walkie talkie and operated it after opening.. I've never combined all three but I can tell you that at night it would be a major handful. 377 Jerry and I have been having a dialog about stability when jumper exits with a bag tied on one side. I tried it. See attached photo and above comments. Its a low res photo but you can see the bag on my left leg. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I think Cooper deployed successfully. Even whuffos have done it from a skyjacked airliner. It is NOT impossible. After that it's anyone's guess. Death certainly is a possibility. Seems to me if he died, a body would have turned up. Lots of publicity, lots of people looking, lots of people hoping to find and keep the loot. Vultures are natural corpse location drones. I've been amazed at how they seem to find every large mammal carcass eventually. If I were searching long enough after the jump for decay to start working on the jumpers body, I'd be looking for vulture flocking. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Dan wrote Great rig? Yes, Exactly what you and I would choose Dan. Nice ride? Yes, all the way to earth contact, then it's not so fun C9s give you a nice quiet ride. The descent rate is high though. I never thought of a C9 landing as "nice." 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Lawyers can serve on juries, they just get bounced most of the time by one side or the other during voir dire (jury selection process). Lawyers with bogus cases bounce scientists and engineers too. They are too hard to fool. You only get so many peremptory challenges so you might run out and get a few on the jury despite your efforts to exclude them. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Dan, If I was Cooper and landed OK, I'd stash the rig right away. Why pack it out? If found, it cannot be used to ID you, it wasn't your rig. Wipe your prints off the ripcord handle and stash it. All you need to do is conceal it from searchers for a while. Your most immediate goal is to get out of the search area and carry nothing that would positively ID you as the skyjacker if stopped by law enforcement. Jerry and I disagree as to whether Cooper augered in or landed under a good canopy, but we agrree that the rig is out there somewhere under either scenario. Why do you disagree Dan? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Glad to see you back Hangdiver. We thought maybe Raz had taken you off road again. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote You and Jerry have a unique long running adversarial relationship. You can't generalize it Jo. I asked Jerry to make some inquires to Ralph Himmelsbach. Later I spoke with Ralph myself. Jerry had very accurately communicated my questions to Ralph even though Jerry and I disagreed on the subject of the inquiry: Cooper's possible experience in putting a parachute on. Ralph is a savvy guy. He is a retired FBI SA. He is a highly experienced military and civilian aviator. He is an older guy but was very quick and sharp. He told me he considers Jerry a friend and an expert on wilderness survival. Ralph reminded me of something that Jerry doesn't mention much, that Jerry was a Special Forces soldier. Jerry thinks Cooper cratered. I don't. Even though we disagree we see the logic in each other's position. We don't squabble, fight or call each other liars etc. Jo, I don't think anyone on the outside can do much to influence or hinder the FBI Norjack investigation. They go at their own pace and set their own course. Distractions and conflicting witnesses are routine in high publicity cases. Nothing you or Jerry says is going to cause the FBI to ignore relevant Norjack evidence. Where did Marla go? Maybe Hurricane was a poor analogy. She was gone from dropzone in a flash. More like a tornado. I am not ready to call her a twister. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Tom, How can you waste our time on a suspect with no alleged or proven exposure to Dan Cooper comics? Walkie Talkies are prefered, but not essential. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Dan wrote Outstanding. 73 OM. Let's rig up a trailing wire HF antenna on your DC 3 Dan. I have the parts including an original C 47 28 volt motorized antenna reel. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Radio nut, oh yes. Cooper nut? Not as much. My house has lots of radios, not much Cooper stuff. Just a few Farflung posters and an Ingram Tena Bar twenty. Proof? Hey, I get some one on one time with Marla and what do I do with it? Radio talk. Snowmman puts me to shame on radios. He engineers his own gear and antennas. He wins contests. I am not in his league. So many ham radio people here besides me. Sluggo, Snow, Guru, Georger, and I am sure others. Hard to figure the connection. Breaker breaker. Dewey, got a copy on me? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.