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Jerry, I am just saying an open public dialog between Marla and her doubters would be beneficial. I'd like to see it. So would others. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blevins wrote Geoff Gray was not such a control freak. Marla sure didn't help his book sales but he let her have center stage. I think you should be equally open and welcoming Robert. If everyone had to have proof to support their story you'd have a lot of trouble finding enough speakers to fill the time slot. Don't put up higher entry barriers for some than others. Marla didn't shy away from tough questions at the Portland symposium. If she wants to come to your summer symposium, let her come. A dialogue between the two of you would be very interesting. give her an invitation. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blevins should have a film festival portion of the symposium. Dorkzone remains anonymous, but we all suspect Snowmman. It is a classic. I don't know what it would take to get Snow to come. I've offered drugs and money but he says he has plenty. I'll see if Marla has any ideas. Farflung will have to screen his excellent video and preside over a critcal discussion of it's thematic nuances and classic cinema elements. Farflung is quite a poet too, can he top the charts again? If Tom, Carol and Al come I'll have to attend as well. I enjoyed their company and presentations. Can we get Georger to come? What is his weakness and can we provide it? How about Jo? Maybe she can weave it into her planned NW research trip. Jo has had more final appearances than Cher. My wife teaches mathematics at a public college, she'd probably like to meet Meyer Louie who practices the same craft. I'd sure love to see Sluggo. I worry about him, no replies. Will Marla run the gauntlet? Blevins might scare her off but she is hella gutsy. I hope Amazon comes and shares a brew or two with Jerry. Vicki should come and meet everyone. I'd welcome a presentation on Mel. Bruce needs to be there. Ralph and any other retired Norjack SA's would be welcome. Sailshaw could give a presentation on Sheridan Peterson. And dare we ask for Orange to travel half way around the world? Jamie Cooper could pressnt his case and maybe perform a song or two. Geoff Gray could sit quietly and have us all wonder what he is actually up to. I'll bet he could present the KC case without getting nearly the backlash that Blevins gets. The posiibilities are endless. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Balls indeed. I bet he even gives his real name and phone number in morning after situations. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Actually I have seen that having balls in parachuting can cause interesting looks on the faces of those who have them and get a nut under upon opening Well, it does hurt! I bet a leg strap has pinched ya, it could happen, or a chest strap. Matt +9 Gs vertical is a lot tougher on the guys. Amazon has balls but not the kind that get squished in a slammer opening. Some Australian company made a sort of man girdle-jock strap to prevent this painful experience in extreme sports. They gave some samples to jumpers. It worked quite well but just never caught on. Its like the hockey players who shun face protection as being unmanly. AADs once were treated similarly. Some still see them as wimpy. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Happy New Year Orange! Welcome back. There is a nice DC 6 for sale in Namibia. Would make a great jumpship if you owned an oil well and a refinery that could make 115+ octane avgas. http://www.nca.com.na/#!__aircraft-specifications Nahh, no new developments here. BK is back, same conspiracy story, a bit more civil. I was pleased to see Safe back. Missing Sluggo. Missing Snow. Missing Ckret. Guru took a leave of absence, couldnt handle the Whuffos. Marla is running silent, but her periscope is up. Blevins is hosting a summer Copper symposium. Nothing new on Mel. FBI has neither confirmed or denied anything Marla claimed. Jo soldiers on, bless her heart. Quade posts now and then. His latest post took on BK and his fantastic claim that every record of his service with Project Norjack has been expunged. It's the conspiracy version of the dog ate my homework. I am getting some upgrades on my rigs, semi stowless bags, new pilot chutes, new Cypres 2 and a 4 year check on my other one, PD Slinks on all canopies, and a very careful overall "IRAN" inspection and repair as needed. Thank goodness for riggers. They work so hard, take huge liability risks and make so little. DZOs too. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Nobody has ever been proven to have died, jumping out of an AFLAC duck, either. So if its fits your bias, use it. It's different. Nobody has jumped from an AFLAC duck. Hundreds of skydivers, an unknown number of military jumpers and even a whuffo skyjacker have successfully jumped from a 727. One 727 jumper is missing: Dan Cooper. All others lived as far as I can tell. Quack Quack. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

BTW, some have questioned Jerry Thomas's Army survival training and instructor certifications. Ralph H vouched for JT's survvial expertise. I have seen copies of the certificates themselves. So has Geoff Gray. Jerry and I disagree on whether Cooper lived, but we do not disagree on his Army survival credentials. We also agree that Cooper's rig is out there just waiting to be found. Jerry thinks it will be likely packed and provide proof of a no pull. I have a more optimistic outlook: deployed and no human remains. Bob Knoss did make a good point: nobody has ever been proven to have died jumping out of a 727. There is only one jump where the outcome is unknown: Cooper's. Everyone else who jumped from a 727 made it to the ground alive as far as I know. Bob Knoss sent me a very civil PM documenting his ongoing search for proof that Richard Nixon was a pilot. So far no confirmation, and I dont expect he will find any later, but I give him credit for researching the disputed claim. I am waiting for Marla's next appearance. So is Farflung. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Bob Knoss, You claimed Nixon was a pilot. It's either true or a lie. Being a war pilot would have been an election campaign asset. He would have no reason to conceal it. I find no mention of it in any web bio info. You claimed Nixon said it. To you? It's hard to absolutely refute your wild claims about McCoy etc , but this Nixon one is easy. You claimed it. Prove it. Proof, not Poof. Burned records is like the dog ate my homework. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Bob Knoss wrote Really? Proof? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blevins wrote Knoss did make a good point in saying that NOBODY has ever died jumping out of a 727. I think he is correct. Cooper is an open question though. Pulling the ripcord on a military bailout rig even in the middle of a violent tumble and spin will give you a good round canopy 99.9% of the time. The issue is panic. A panicked jumper often can't do a pull on a clear warm sunny day. Highly experienced jumpers with no AADs have gone is as no pulls frantically pulling on webbing rather than the ripcord handle all the way to impact. We had a guy go in at Byron a few months ago as a no pull. No AAD, active jumper for many years. He had arthritis and experienced trouble deploying the main pilot chute. He apparently fought it all the way down. He went in with nothing pulled. He was doing RW with 3 others but nobody saw him go in. It was only noticed when his family called saying he never came home. His car was still at the DZ. A search the next day found his body in a field adjacent to the runway. Marla's silence is deafening. What's up with that? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote Jo, This is really over the top. Duane sleep talks about cold feet and you see that as evidence that he participated in Fulton Hook retrievals. My wife mutters about cold feet once in a while. Ocean tells me it has a more likely connection to poor peripheral circulation than Herc Fulton Hook ops. BTW Fulton Hook hardware was all sewn nylon line and webbing and metal to metal fasteners. No hand tied knots. There were early problems with fastening the line securely to the C 130 but hand tied knots were not the problem. Project Cold Feet: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldfeet Are you even hinting that Duane was involved with this CIA op? If so, Duane Weber makes James Bond look like a wimp. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It was insane back in the day. JUI was common. Alcohol, LSD, pot, coke, speed etc. I was on DC3 loads with jumpers snorting coke during the climb. There were DZs with bars. They did business all day long. Having a couple of beers with a burger and them resuming jumping was no big deal. I was not anti drug at all, but I thought it was nuts to jump loaded. I started jumping at 18. I did a lot of stupid things when I was young but JUI wasn't one of them. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Speaking of storms, what happened to Hurricane Marla? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Bob Knoss, If you know where the parachute is buried why don't you retrieve it? Talk is cheap. Show us one piece of physical evidence to back up your story. The chute location is a great test of your credibility. Do you fear the outcome? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Marla explained at the symposium that she was not connected to a polygraph for five hours but that her session with the FBI was about five hours in duration. What seemed odd to me is her claim that the FBI told he she "passed." I never saw that when witnesses were given polygraphs by law enforcement agencies. They were not informed of the results at the end of the exam. Written reports were prepared. There was no real time feedback from the examiner. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Ad far as I know 727s haven't been jumped in over a decade. I think the last 727 jump was made at WFFC Quincy Illinois in the late 1990s. 727s are not very economical to operate. They require a flight engineer in addition to two pilots and they are not fuel sippers. I don't think any are flying scheduled airline service in the US. A few freight dogs soldier on but their numbers are dwindling. Trump still flies his as a biz jet. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

OK, now I see what Georger meant and it makes sense. An inexperienced person would want to get clear of all those dangers before deploying. That is certainly possible. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It has literally never crossed my mind that deploying behind a turbine engine of a flying aircraft could result in the chute being ingested in the intake. I don't think it possible. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The highest exit speed I ever did was not from the DC 9 jet but from a firewalled C 130 Herc. I was a test jumper outfitted with black box pressure sensors and a recorder. The purpose was to measure pressure transients to see if an AAD could be fooled into firing on a very high speed tumbling exit. The outfit commissioning the tests said don't even try to get stable. Just tumble until you slow down to terminal velocity. They really didn't need to tell me that. When I hit the blast it was a wild head over heels tumble with a good spin thrown in. It was pretty violent. There was no way I could use relative wind clues to figure out my orientation. Things were just too chaotic and fast changing. It was a bright sunny day with a clear horizon so as I slowed down I was able to get stable quite easily. At night with no clear heading ref or horizon I don't think I could have figured it out. Arching hard will put you belly to Earth but it doesn't solve the spin problem. A spin can get so fast that it renders the jumper unconscious. I jumped with a totally blind jumper once. He arched to get belly to Earth and somehow managed not to spin. I think he may have used the feel of the late afternoon sun on his face for a heading ref. He got landing guidance from the ground by radio. He did just fine and had a lot of jumps. I worried about how he could ID a malfunction and deal with it but that's a risk he took. I've tried to keep a heading with my eyes closed in the wind tunnel. I always end up turning. I avoid any gross assymetries by feel, so the turns aren't too fast, but I think if I added a tumble it would be very hard to avoid a spin. A tumble at night with no distinct horizon or heading reference is a spin recipe. Jerry and I agree on that. If a jumper panics then a no pull is a real possibility. Very experienced jumpers have gone in with nothing pulled. Some fight a hard pull right into the ground. Others fixate on pulling the wrong thing, like webbing and go in pulling mightily on something that won't deploy their canopy. I like to think Cooper got a good canopy. I presented a scenario at the symposium that would not only give him a good canopy but would prevent a tumble and give a gradual opening even at high speed. I showed a movie of the CIA Thailand jumps that proved it is possible simply by pulling right off the stairs. Did he do that? We don't know. If he was a whuffo and did a freefall then a spin was almost certain. He could stop it by pulling, but if panic set in then that simple task can become very difficult. The chute is out there. When its found we will know if he landed alive. Until that day it's all guessing. Happy Holidays to everyone. Jo, Bob Knoss and Jamie Cooper included. I have a place in my heart even those I spar with. Quade too. He still has a chance to be Santa Claus for 377. And let's never forget Quade's unpopular and never ending battle to keep this forum on dropzone. I am very grateful for that. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger wrote I had almost forgotten about Bohan. Thanks for keeping his outlier weather report alive. Outlier not outliar. I know you were kidding about Bohan being a liar G. His report has always puzzled me. Bob Knoss, you claim to know exactly where the chute is buried. It's very valuable. Why don't you dig it up? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

And Farflung if you think I am kidding about favors being offered for extra altitude, ask some WFFC Rantoul vets about why DC 3 N26MA went to 15,800 feet on one load. It had something to do with a tall gorgeous redhead who "incented" the cockpit crew. She took them to new heights and they gladly reciprocated. I sure miss WFFC. Dirty motels, anarchy and drunkenness, but such a good time. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung wrote about Perris (DZ where Vlad disappeared): Farflung, you can bet that there was more than one. Never seen a nun jumper at Perris but there are an abundance of attractive women. Ask Quade. Ask anyone. When I jumped the Perris DC 9 they had real flight attendant jumpers on the plane handing out snacks. They were wearing shorts, thin t shirts and rigs. And yes, they were hot. You'd be really happy as a Perris jump pilot. Pay is shockingly low, the area is pretty bleak, but I've heard that favors are offered for extra altitude. Get type rated in a Twin Otter and you are good to go. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Bob Knoss wrote: Care to give some detail on that triangulation part Bob? Whose radios, the 727s? Also, if you know where the chute is buried why dont you dig it up? It would be worth a small fortune. Some idiots pay thousands for a beat up twenty. Can you imagine what Cooper's chute is worth? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.