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"I'm not new to this thread. I chime in when I'm bored and see something that I know isn't true. " If only the rest of us could emulate Terry at least some of the time we sure wouldnt have 18,000 posts. Such restraint! I'll defer to an FAA Designated Parachute Rigger Examiner any day on canopy material history. I just accepted the (FBI? Cossey?) info that the Amboy canopy was silk. There is a hobby called aviation archeology that digs up old plane wrecks. MANY WW2 chutes found in connection with thieir digs and dives are in fine shape if shielded from UV by submersion or burial. I tried using a 24 ft nylon surplus canopy as a car cover and within 3 months it was SHOT, totally destroyed by UV from sunlight. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Quade, why not show some mercy and let Snow back on for a trial period? Nobody deserves a life sentence here. Snow has done a lot of research and would be a valuable forum participant. Even killers get paroled. I'll post relevant Cooper info when he has some. You needn't worry about me re-posting anything insulting, not beacuse I respect your censorship, it's just not my style. Snow is actually a very nice considerate guy in person, but I know I'd have a very hard time convincing anyone on this forum that it's true. Alas... 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Reviewed for unacceptably offensive personal slurs and coded terrorist messages, none found. Without further ado, direct from exhile, the words of Snowmman: I believe Quade issued a coded apology to me, and asked me to continue posting. So I posted two photos Sep 6, 2010 to DZ.com http://www.dropzone.com/photos/Detailed/Special_Jumps/Northwest_Airlines_System_Timetable_10/31/71_118410.html http://www.dropzone.com/photos/Detailed/Special_Jumps/Northwest_Airlines_System_Timetable_12/15/71_118411.html I have obtained two NWA system timetables closer to the event than I had previous had. One effective Oct. 31, 1971 and one effective Dec. 15, 1971 Both show Flight 305. I posted the pages showing departures from Portland. The Dec 15. 1971 timetable had some additional destinations on another page that I didn't post. So you can see they were adding flights. There were a lot of flights out of Portland on NWA that day. (check the times) Curiously, first class was only $25, with coach (as known) $20. For Robert Blevins: I am told I was deny all reports that the 10/31/71 timetable was tested for DNA or compared to Christiansen's DNA. That is my denial For Everyone Else: Have you ever seen a system timetable from 1971 with Flight 305 listed? Why would I have the only copy? And what does Pyrodex have to do with this? 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

G wrote: The BS surely does stop at the door. Parachutists know this well. Georger has jumped. He knows the feeling. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Cold fusion comes to mind. Man, for a few days it looked like we'd be awash in cheap non polluting energy, and then the nagging issues of adequate controls, accurate net energy measurements and "where is the helium?" reared their ugly heads. Whats really a hoot is the lingering fringe that doggedly pursues the flawed work of Pons and Fleischman claiming that cold fusion did and still does work and (of course) that a massive conspiracy is covering it up. What says "Mr Atomic" Sluggo about this cold fusion stuff? Remember all the "death woods" posts and Jerry's claim that Cooper didn't and Snowmman wouldnt survive a winter night in the predicted LZ? Snowmman raises a good point about the Corsair pilot who in December of 45 jumped in this area and walked out with no big problems. "Death woods? Not for him. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I hope Watson knows something unique and non public that can solve the case, but I have my doubts. It wouldn't be the first time that a "nobody" (media wise) sees a chance to become a "somebody" by changing his story and goes for it. Fame and media attention, even if brief, is an irresistable lure for some people. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No, but I sure have to respect the courage of a one legged Nam vet who jumped round canopies. No way would ANY skydiver be jumping a 1946 surplus SILK canopy in the late 60s. I don't think the canopy was Clydes. It must have come from another source. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/for/1915341008.html the apex skirt reinforcement looks white and the lines appear white which argues against a civilian dye job. Any rigger opinions? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

How do you know what his motive was? Sounds like he could have made a lot more doing his regular gig, manuscript editing, than he did working on the Cooper book. Anyone who thinks they will make serious money off Cooper is a fool and Blevins is not a fool. You could make a lot more money writing trash about Lindsey Lohan or Paris Hilton. I agree about the Amboy chute stamp being a mfr date. I've seen hundreds of surplus canopies ranging from WW 2 vintage through the 60s and the only date stamp I've seen on the fabric is the mfr date, NEVER a repack date. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo writes: Really??? Isn't this the guy who put his first edition on the Internet FOR FREE in an effort to solicit responses which would improve the factual accuracy of subsequent publications? There is nothing wrong with being "JUST a writer for profit." You don't have to be a starving zealot to be a credible journalist. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo writes: EXACTLY the position taken by Kim Il Jong, the dictator of North Korea. You are in good company Jo. Fortunately we have the First Amendment and courts which pay it occasional respect. I'll tolerate slander and libel if that's the price of free speech. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Lawsuits rarely result in defending honor or a persons word. They just create a lot of expensive paperwork and enrich your counsel. Unless you are a movie star your defamation case is totally ignored by the public. Stop threatening suits. Either bring them or stop the bluffing. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

yeah... all this tough talk about lawsuits but nothing ever happens. That's OK though, most litigation is a huge waste of time and money. It's better used as a threat than a weapon. I welcome Blevins and still support Jo's right to be here, although I disagree with her all the time. It's a numbers game. Cooper was a real person, not a Sasquatch. He lived somewhere. He had posessions. He had friends and relatives. Somebody somewhere has a valuable clue that has not yet been processed in the investigation. It could be a vehicle that was deemed abandoned and towed, a person who went missing right after Norjack but escaped FBI attention, etc. All this digging, even by Jo, widens the net. It doesnt guarantee that we will solve the case but it ups the odds as more people are contacted and are asked about events that occured around that time and in that area. I do think the Norjack case will be solved in my lifetime and that Amelia E's plane will be found as well. Just hunches from an optimistic jumper and aviation nut. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

More Snowffall: A nice addendum to that story. The place he was found at, "Reese's Store"... a nice pic was on the web it's a funky old place..still there. (attached) from http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1133897852030679558uFjTBP If Bruce want's to go to Reese's Store, the directions are: North from Portland on I5 to exit 21 at Woodland, or south from seattle on I5 150 miles to exist 21 then follow Washington Route 503 (which becomes WA 503 Spur) for 27.5 miles east to Cougar. 4 miles west of Cougar, it's on the left side of the highway. It's no longer in use. Curiously, climbers attempting the south side of Mt Helens used to register here at one time. It's no longer in use. The Reese Family were the first people to reach the floor of Ape Cave. Sometime around Nov/Dec 1951. It's the longest lava tube cave in North America. http://books.google.com/books?id=TdMhfJ909kAC&lpg=PA90&ots=IaOvwYMOBl&dq=%22reese's%20store%22%2C%20yale%2C%20wa&pg=PA88#v=onepage&q&f=false pictures of the inside of Ape Cave are here http://books.google.com/books?id=TdMhfJ909kAC&lpg=PA90&ots=IaOvwYMOBl&dq=%22reese's%20store%22%2C%20yale%2C%20wa&pg=PA92#v=onepage&q&f=false 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Quade, Please let Snowmman back. Look at what a resource he is: I am taking the liberty to post Smowmmans findings since he, not his research results, were banned. From Snowmman: I managed to break into Seattle FBI again, and found a unreleased picture of the amboy chute. (the last pic). The second pic is with robbie, that was released to the news. You can see the inset DOM. But the new picture is better and shows more realistic color and where it is on the chute. Now with regard to the Walling jump in 1945. It's interesting for "precedent" because it was in winter, and involved a walkout. I don't think anyone posted the full details before. The Dec 1945 picture of Walling is new. Marine Lt. Floyd Walling was flying a Corsair airplane from Portland to Seattle on Dec 27, 1945. He had bad weather, instruments failed and bailed out about 8 miles from the town of Yale. which is nine miles from Amboy.. He walked the 8 miles to Yale the next day. After he jumped, he used a cigarette lighter to build a fire and stay warm. Remember, this is Dec 27. He walked about 8 miles, and followed a creek for the last part. Was found near "Reese's Store" in Yale. Attached is a picture from Dec 1945 of Walling. What's interesting, is whether that picture was taken after he was found. He's wearing a flight jacket. If so, it shows the clothing he had when he jumped. And he jumped north of Lake Merwin, where the forest is denser. Evidently his nickname was "T" (his middle initial: Floyd T. Walling) picture is from http://www.seattlepi.com/photos/photo.asp?PhotoID=181180 story is from http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6z4fAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xdAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5925,180186&dq=amboy+parachute&hl=en The Amboy parachute is unlikely to be Walling's because of the location of Walling's jump. Yale is right near the Mt. St. Helen's Aero Ranch airport. It's North of Lake Merwin, on Lewis River Rd. The Amboy parachute was found south of Lake Merwin, if I remember correctly. here's a map of Yale http://maps.google.com/maps?q=yale,+wa&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Yale,+Cowlitz,+Washington&gl=us&ei=Kex1TPPfJ5OesQPdzOSgDQ&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&ll=45.995292,-122.380142&spn=0.157179,0.207367&z=12 Sluggo posted on this a while back, but it seem's clear it's not Walling's http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3171219;search_string=walling;guest=73982645#3171219 SafecrackingPLF tried to isolate where Ckret was pointing when a news photo had him pointing to the parachute find location. Sluggo agreed that it was likely North of Cedar Creek Road and South of Spurrel Road. (Sluggo misspelled in his post) This is South of Lake Merwin. Also note the DOM of the amboy chute is 1946 (attached). Also note that Walling jumped in 1945.

NB 6 refers to the harness and container assembly not the canopy. The NB 6 and NB 8 were, as I recall, Navy rigs. The Navy used 26 foot diameter conical canopies and 28 foot diameter C9 round canopies. Colors I've seen included white, orange, brown and green. I've never seen pink in a stock military canopy. Skydivers did, especially in the 60s, dye surplus canopies, usually white ones. Tie dyed canopies were common. Solid non mil spec colors too. Never saw pink though. Male skydivers frown on pink. Homophobia? Who knows. I got an absolute steal on a pink reserve once. It was too big for most women (200+ sq ft) and no guy (except me) would buy it. If the chute found buried at Amboy was pink I doubt if it was a stock military chute. Riggers: do you agree? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I've jumped at Byron and so has Amazon. It is a caring kind of DZ and not at all the cold impersonal place that the tragic story implies. "Byron Love" is a legendary phrase denoting the unique vibe at the DZ and in my experience it is accurate. I read that the jumper was kind of a loner and often departed after his last jump by walking to his vehicle with his unpacked rig and departing without any formal good byes. Still, it shouldn't have happened. He was on a 3 way jump out of the King Air. He reportedly went in as a no pull and didnt have an AAD. He was in his mid 50s. Perhaps he was incapacitated during freefall and was unconscious at pull altitude. An AAD might have helped. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

******************** If the found canopy was indeed silk then it is HIGHLY doubtful that it was Cossey's emergency chute. I started jumping in 68 and have jumped lots of old surplus gear, but ALL the canopies were nylon. My first main chute was dated 1951 It was an orange and white C9 jet ejection canopy made from 100% ripstop nylon, not silk. Nobody in their right mind, especially a rigger, would be carrying a WW 2 vintage silk canopy as their last chance chute in 1971. I am not even sure if they were TSO'd for use as emergency parachutes in 71. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

We should ask that woman who saw Cooper launching flares from the 727 airstairs if he resembled any of our forum posters' favorite suspects. DBC was well lit, albeit in red light, but it should be pretty easy. There is no chance she could resolve a person on the stairs, but her alleged description of an arcing trajectory for the tossed flare intrigues me because it is accurate and not intuitive. Do you notice how nobody can really quit? Georger drops by once in a while, Jo has had as many last performances as Cher or Streisand, but she is still here. Snow and Ckret still read it and I'll bet most of the "science team" does as well. Jerry will post once in a great while too I bet. Don't forget, Cooper's rig is out there somewhere. If he died it's there. If he walked out it's there. No reason to pack it out and plenty of reason to conceal it. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

sadly that is impossible. You have entered the gates of Cooper Hell and there is no going back. You may think you can resume normal thoughts and activities, but the virus is well established. You can learn to live with it, but you are and will remain Cooper Positive, at least until a cure is discovered. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It is a bad idea to make lying a crime. It would put beered up skydivers in great jeopardy. visiting jumper: "there I was, coming in for the last grip on a 100 way" local jumper: "I know for a fact he has never been in anything bigger than an Otter load and he's funneled most of those. Read him his rights and cuff him" 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

N/A

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has just ruled that the Stolen Valor Act, which makes it a federal crime to claim falsely to be a recipient of miltary decorations, medals etc, is unconstitutional since it criminalizes a false statement with nothing more required for a conviction. Free speech apparently includes the right to lie if it isnt part of other criminal behavior such as tax evasion, obstructing justice etc. I know it will raise a storm here since we have so many jumpers who are decorated vets, but I think the law criminalized mental illness and for that reason should be heavily amended or stricken down. I have run into a few of these military hero posers and they have all been mentally ill insecure grandiose chronic liars. I know it enrages combat vets to see these liars go unpunished, but is it really a good use of federal resources to prosecute and imprison these pathetic imposters? If they use the ruse for monetary gain there are plenty of other laws dealing with fraud that can be used to prosecute them. Let the storm begin. http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/18/stolen-valor-act-is-declared-unconstitutional-by-circuit-court/ 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote: Jo, you may be confusing concealment with apathy and carelessness. Nobody but you sees any connection between Duane and Norjack. This causes all sorts of reactions to your dogged inquiries including stonewalling, making careless errors etc. I haven't seen any evidence of active concealment. I am not an FBI booster but I remain convinced that they would very much like to solve Norjack and have not engaged in any coverup of Coopers identity. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

What "smoking gun" have you handed to the FBI Jo? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.