SuperKat

Stop reading it at face value. Lost in biblical terms = lost sheep. We are all Jesus' sheep. Some tend to lose their way and become found again. It's an analogy for crying out loud. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Because you're all closed minded. When we christians mean lost it means that they need to be found and saved by Jesus. It doesn't mean that they're hopeless lost cases. It's what categorizes people as saved and lost. Lost is as in "lost sheep". Jesus loves to find lost sheep and find them again. I don't even know why I'm explaining this to you. You have more experience being a christian than I do. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Dude, take it easy. Take a deep breath. Look at how many times aetheist or agnostics say that Christians foolish to believe what they believe. Stick to your beliefs and we'lls stick to ours. It's a big world out there. There's plenty of room for everyone. If that's your belief about christians until you pass on, so be it. It is what it is. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

You obviously don't read previous posts. Don't generalize one person's views or a couple of hundred people's views as the whole christian belief. It's a big world out there buddy. There are a few million christians such as myself and such as the person that wrote those two articles that don't match the persona that you described above. So if you're gonna attack someone's statement, attack them personally, and not christianity as a whole. If you guys haven't met christians like me and the author out there in the world, you need to get out more often. See here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2101378#2101378 and here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2101394#2101394 edit: to my christian brothers and sisters, please don't take this personally. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying that we need to be more open and understanding of others and believe that there are good people out there in the world that are not saved. They're not wrong, they're just lost and all we can do is pray for them. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Just an article about religion and spirituality: http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/devarchive.aspx?ARCHIVEID=1370 More On Religion and Spirituality By John Fischer When you give a gift to someone in need, don't shout about it as the hypocrites do--blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I assure you, they have received all the reward they will ever get. (Matthew 6:2 NLT) I don't know how many of these sayings are floating around out there, but I may have uncovered something significant. Earlier this week I quoted one of our readers as saying that a religious person sits in church thinking about fishing while a spiritual person goes fishing thinking about God. (Not at all meaning to imply that the spiritual person is fishing in place of going to church, by the way. The point is simply that spiritual people worship God with a heart that permeates everything they do, while religious people may look holy, but not have their heart in it.) Now someone has sent me this: “A religious person is trying to avoid hell; a spiritual person has already been there.” Religion is the nemesis of Christianity, and these types of contrasts point that out. Religious people are stuck in a religious points system that keeps track of everything. They are actually pretty confident that hell can be avoided based on their own point tally. By contrast, keeping track is the last thing spiritual people want to do, because their track record condemns them. They believe that they deserve hell and get heaven by God's grace. Spiritual people are constantly pinching themselves because they can't believe their good fortune. The last thing they want to do is tally up points, because that will only confirm what they already know: they don't have enough. Never will. I think I'll try my own hand at this: Religion is a system; spirituality is a state of being, made possible by a relationship. Religion is trying to please God; spirituality is enjoying God. Religion is Martha fussing in the kitchen; spirituality is Mary listening at the feet of Jesus. Religion keeps the score; spirituality keeps the faith. And yes, spiritual people have been to hell and back, because that is how they came to know God in the first place. They all came to the end of their rope in some way, calling out desperately to God and finding Him there, eager to listen and respond. It's the hellish kinds of experiences that have brought them to realize their need. No one can be found unless they are lost; no one can be saved unless they are drowning. Spiritual people realize this because they have been rescued. By contrast, “Jesus saves” means nothing to the religious because they have nothing in their determination from which they need to be saved. Religious people have too tight a hold on their own lives to ever let go. Spiritual people let go and find that God is always there to catch them. Consequently, when spiritual people serve, they do it out of full hearts of gratitude. When religious people serve, they do it for points, and as Jesus said, they already have their reward (Matthew 6:2). You can see how religion has kept a lot of people from Christianity. It's a shame, because there couldn't be anything farther from the truth of what it means to know God. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

An article from the purpose driven life website: http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/devarchive.aspx?ARCHIVEID=1318 Here's the text version: Friend or Foe? By John Fischer Bob is a regular devotional reader who writes me frequently. What makes him unique is that he is a Christian who is attending classes at a Buddhist temple. Now some Christians might find this impossible to do, but it really depends on your worldview. A person with a worldview that believes that Christians are right and everyone else is wrong would not be able to understand how a person could do this, or why one would even want to. A person with a worldview that believes that all truth is embodied in Christ Jesus, but not exclusively held by Him, might see this differently. God has not locked up His truth inside the church where no one else can get it. Theologians call it common grace – that part of truth and beauty that God shares with everyone, whatever their faith or lack of it. In reality, it’s the only way we can explain the world the way it is. Christians are not the only good people on the earth. Indeed there are many good people in the world who are not Christians, as well as Christians who are not very good. Bob wrote recently: “One of my classmates went on a tirade when he first learned that I am a Christian. We are now friends. He is still a Buddhist and I am still a Christian, but he says gentler things about Christians now. I can't help saying ‘gentle things’ about Buddhists. It's something that many Christians need to learn. I guess our North American society often isn't very gentle.” Now you can see a reason for this. Bob is finding among his Buddhist friends, Christian traits that are culturally lacking in our western society. And it also looks like Bob has been an influence on at least one of his Buddhist friends who looks at Christianity differently now because of him. Am I suggesting that we all become Buddhists? Of course not. But I am suggesting we could be more open to truth outside of only what we can control. We might be able to share Christ with more people if we thought differently about this. One way to think about it would be this: The world is not wrong as much as it is lost. It’s a mindset that colors how we treat people. People we think are wrong need to be set straight; people we think are lost need to be found and brought home. If you were not a Christian, whom would you rather have as a friend, someone out to set you straight, or someone out to find you and bring you home? “Today salvation has come to this house… For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.” Luke 19:10 What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Just to clarify, to pray is not to request for blessings and what not. Jesus taught us to pray so that we may grow closer to God. It helps us to communicate with God. We don't necessarily get vocal replies from God but in his way, we get answers to our prayers. I'm not qualified to get too deep into this. I'm sure Pajarito and windcatcher can elaborate on this. RevJim can definitely shine some light on this issue. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

JW's actually start to come around 7:45am or 8:00am. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2095372#2095372 Since you get so bent out of shape on our beliefs can you at least answer my question and tell me how you fell out of being a student of the bible? I cannot find your previous post about this topic. You're much too active on different threads on a daily basis. I can't weed it out. If you want to move on from it or if you're not up to looking for the thread, then never mind. I'm just curious as to why you fell out of your bible belief. It's just curiousity. Take it easy guy. It's my life, not yours. If it upsets you that much, turn your cheek man. It ain't killing anybody for me to believe what I want to believe. You being an ex bible believer isn't killing anyone either. I'm not forcing my belief on you. So why be concerned if I want to belief in the easter bunny or in an invisible friend? Leave it be man. Don't strain yourself in wondering why we believe what we believe. I don't go on demanding answers why atheist and agnostics are the way they are. It's a big world out there man. There's room for everyone in it. Just accept the fact that there are people out there with different beliefs and values from your own. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Does mocking people really help you sleep better at night? I'm just curious. Don't take that personal. I'm just trying to understand why people here get a kick out of mocking Christians and their beliefs. I don't know where you guys live or where you come from but here in NY, most Christians don't force themselves or their beliefs on other people. I do not have anything bad to say about agnostics or aetheist. I don't even have bad thoughts about them. I see them as being lost and I pray for them. I see us all as God's children and if I were to mock you for not believing what I believe and for not being a christian I will be judged by my holy father. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

I don't call anyone a cult, neither does my church. Like I said, our church doesn't judge others. All I know is that Jehovah Witnesses don't believe that Jesus is part of the holy trinity. They believe that Jesus is not God and that when they go to heaven they will be at the same level as Jesus. Something to that effect. I'm not an authority on them but that's what I know about them so far. More infor about Jehovah Witnesses: http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/trueworship.htm What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

I can't argue with scriptures. However, I believe that my praying for those Christians that are lost is good enough for me. I can't force someone to have the same views as I do. It's not my place to do so. That's God's work. He chooses who and when and how a person gets saved or directed into the right path. However, at the same token, he also puts people in our path that need our guidance and support. I guess, I really can't say much about this because you're more of an old school Christian than I am. I'm still in the toddler stage. However, I know that God speaks in my heart and leads me to the right path. Therefore, I know in my heart he doesn't want me judging others. Maybe, I'm just not qualified enough to judge right now. I just don't feel comfortable doing it either. Who knows? For now, I cannot judge others nor do I think it's right for me to do so. I believe that this is God's position, not mine. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

I understand what you are saying. I never said that a bad cop doesn't exist. Don't read between the lines. I just said you can't be a bad cop because they don't teach you to be a bad cop. Bad cops don't get away scott free. There's no chance of that even happening. You also brought up a topic that was way off base from the thread. In reference to what I have posted in the past for something I haven't even done. It's like looking down on me for thinking about making a low turn under canopy with you directly underneath me but I don't even attempt it. I just thought about it. Why judge me for something I haven't even done? I was misdirected by others and people here put me in the right direction to not even take that approach. And I didn't take that approach. So that chapter is closed, let's leave it closed. Agreed? I appreciate the free advice. I know you mean well. I appreciate it. I honestly don't think I'm saying anything bad about NY or any other states local police force. I may not realize I am but since you may have noticed I did, then I'll stop. I was just curious, that's all. Thanks again. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

That doesn't happen in my church. We have no right to judge other denominations. We encourage other christians to have a close relationship with Christ and believe that the bible is the final authority. If they refuse, we pray and pray for them. We'll talk to them about it. If they want to refuse the discussion, we let it end right there. I'm a little behind in the current events especially about other Christians. So which ones are the ones fighting wars over each other's beliefs? What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Holy smokes! What christians are preventing you to believe what you want to believe? I certainly wouldn't force anything down your throat. Most christians I know wouldn't do that either. Everyone in my church wouldn't twist your arm either. They wouldn't even talk to you about it. They'd just talk about whuffo stuff to you. My church is not in the business of forcing or persuading people into having a relationship with Christ. If you come to seek God, they will drop everything to help you. If you come as an observer, they'll let you go on your merry way. You should come live in NY then. Christians don't do that around here. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

My friend, that was old news. I wasn't trying to screw anyone over. I was told to protect myself incase things didn't work out. I didn't realize that my actions were going that route until people here made me realize that. And I didn't end up doing that so why are you hanging me for it? I'm sorry I made a mistake and I corrected it before it even happened. If you still want to hang me for it, then that's your call. Please tell me what am I doing wrong by mentioning that you can't be a bad cop in NY? It's what we're taught. How is that saying anything bad about the NYPD? Please explain. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Dude, you're not an amputee are you? This is the 2nd reference you've made about it. If you're not an amputee, how do you know they're sad about not having their limbs? Do you think they stop functioning normally? Do you think they sulk all day long for most of their life because they're limbless? I don't think so. They go on with their life. Therefore, how do you know that they go around praying to re-grow their limbs? All of a sudden you became an expert on my life. How do you know if any of my prayers didn't come true or not? Do you know my life? I shit you not mon frere, all my prayers have come true since I became a Christian. And we're talking about reasonable prayers not wishes, such as praying to win the lottery or to get a raise at work. You've got the wrong idea pal. Have you been around the world and everywhere around the world? How do you know that there are not physically impossible miracles that happen when someone prayed to God. I don't even know if there are or aren't, in recent news at least. What are you praying for anyway? I told you, God is not a magician and he's not your lap dog. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Of course you can do that but that means you're not truly saved and you're only a Christian because of your fear of eternal damnation. Once again, we are christian because we believe in Christ and we accept him into our hearts and we believe in his ways. I don't even think about eternal damnation because it's not in my mind. Once you are saved, you are saved forever. You have to understand the power of Christ and the power of his love and forgiveness. Then, you can understand where we're coming from. Therefore, if you haven't experienced it, you'll think we're coming out of left field. Don't strain yourself man. Go to: http://www.carm.org if you're really that curious about Christianity. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

God was with you my friend. There's a reason why you didn't go at that time. As long as this is not your primary reason for being Christian. Keep it up! What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Which part are you referring to "doing my own thing?" No, I indeed call it divine intervention. Personal drive with luck? I had no personal drive to become a christian. God made it happen. That's where you are misinformed Sir, God doesn't test your faith. Once you are saved, that's that. There's no gray area or middle of the road or tests to see if you keep your faith or tests to see how strong your faith is. Bad things happen for a reason, and it's beyond our understanding. Just like anything else, if you step on shit, you have choices on how to deal with it, such as to clean off your shoes on grass, go home and clean it, or just walk around with it on the bottom of your shoe. Shit happens in life. When it does, I pray and I do my thing. I don't wait with my thumb up my ass for something to happen. I know that God helps me make decisions to do what I have to do and make shit happen. uh yeah......I call it consequences for my actions too. We all can alter our future by the decision we make now. I don't have a religion. I have a relationship with Christ through my heart. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

You know and read the bible. You should know why God sent his only son to be sacrificed. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Yes Sir! What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

I used to think the same way you did for most of my life. Why do I need God, if I'm the one making things happen in my life. Why do I need God to be nice to people, compassionate to people, care for people, be understanding, forgiving, etc. I always doubted Jesus and the Bible for 75% of my life. I can understand where you are coming from because I was in those shoes myself, not more than 4 years ago. I used to laugh and mock people who told me if I didn't believe in Jesus, I'd go to hell. I'd even tell them to fuck off or go fuck themselves and keep their shit to themselves. I would get so angry at people trying to convert me. I would think that they were out of their fuckin' mind! I would tell them "how dare you fuckin' tell me how to live my life you fuckin' psychos! Fuck off!" My life was honky dory (in my opinion) before I was saved by Jesus. I was making 90k a year as a L.A.N. engineer, I was skydiving every weekend 10-15 times a week. I drove a luxury car. I would feed homeless people in the street that were begging for spare change. I would help out total strangers that I met in the street when they needed help. I would meet a lot of hot chicks (for the millionth time by the way, I'm a dude) take 'em home and do my thing, call a cab for 'em and call it a night. I wasn't a jerk either. I told them how it was and how it will be and not to expect anything. I was living a mack daddy life with no complaints whatsoever. I was everyone's friend, I had no enemies, everyone loved me. I was everyone's therapist, they came to me with all their problems and I actually helped them. Then, when I found Christ in my life, I felt so fulfilled. I discovered I really wasn't as nice before than I am now. I really wasn't as compassionate as I thought I was. I wasn't as forgiving as I thought I was. I wasn't as loving as I thought I was. When I became a christian, believe it or not you'd think that my life was falling apart, things started to get taken away from me and I wasn't upset about it. I got a salary cut by 50% because I went from being a consultant to an employee. My new boss took away 75% of my responsibilities and I started from scratch again after making a name for myself for 7 years at that company I worked in. My physical labor workload increased by 3 fold. I had to sell my car because I couldn't afford it any longer. I still don't have a car. My landlord increased my rent by $200 a month. I could only skydive once a month or once every two months. Normally, I would have drank myself drunk because of all this but I couldn't even afford to do that even. The icing on the cake is when I chose to become a cop and I only make 25K a year at the Academy. That's a 50% pay cut from my previous 50% pay cut. Most of my recruits complain that we're risking our lives for a measley 25k a year. Imagine being a cop in NYC for a $25k. You probably think I'm a whack job. I don't see it that way. This is God's purpose for me in this life. To protect and serve the people of NY. Anyway, you'd think I'd be starving by now and what not. I'm not. I pray for things and they happen. I prayed for God to get me through my yearly expenses of $22k with a gross salary of $25k. And I get by believe it or not. I pray for help and money miraculously comes to my door. You can call it coincidence but I don't. I had people from years back coming to my door and paying me back the money they owed me. They had no inkling that I was making only 25k either. On top of that I still give 10% of my gross salary to my church. It's freakish sometimes when you pray and how things just happen without you expecting it to. I can't explain it but I know where it comes from. Despite all these bad events taking place in my life. I still rejoice and praise my Lord and Savior. Why? Because I know that he will never leave me nor forsake me. And that's the God's honest truth folks. Things have always gone my way because I pray for it. I'm more of a humble person now too. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Dude, I didn't say that you can't call it a religion, you can call it chicken meat if you want to. I'm saying that most born again Christians don't belong to a denomination. I'm not saying that denominations are wrong. I can't judge them. All I'm saying is that Christ felt that religion is man made. He believed that people just obeyed the customs but they weren't kind to others. For example, you have people that claim to be let's say Christian Science. They'll go to church every Sunday but as soon as they step out of church they start cussing people that cut them off on the road, they start having arguments with people on the street or have an attitude with others, etc. That's not being christian, is it? He wants us to have a relationship with him as a Lord and Savior and as our best friend. Having a relationship with Christ means that you want him to live in your heart. You want him to guide you in all the decisions that you make. You want him to give you the strength, patience, understanding and love when you deal with difficult people. You can't just go to church and forget about Christ once you step out that church door. You have to try your darndest to live the life he led and to deal with problems and people exactly the way he dealt with them, with compassion, peace, understanding, forgiveness and love. Now, you're definitely not on the right track, my friend. God is not a magician. He's not a dog either. He doesn't listen to your commands or demands. He listens to your prayers. And there's a reason why certain things happen to people which may be well beyond our own understanding. This is where you trust God and should be thankful to him that at least you still have your hands and other vital signs to remain alive. It's not a perfect world dude, whether you like it or not. Just because we're followers of God, doesn't mean that we can't suffer like others do. You'll have christians that are murdered, raped, beaten on, get robbed, lose limbs, permanently hospitalized and are hated by others. There are reasons why these things happen to them beyond our worldly understanding. Christians don't have a hedge protecting us from harm, danger or emotional problems. However, we have more of an understanding that whatever happens it's by God's own will. There's so much more that I can go into about this but there are other christian posters here that can elaborate more on this and are more qualified than I am. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

Now I get what you're saying. I worded that all wrong. I wasn't trying to say how people don't read the old testament. I was trying to say there are a lot of Christians that don't read the old testament. And for people that don't read the bible from front to back like you have, they won't get to see how wonderful Christ's teachings are in the new testament. That's amazing, my friend. You read it from end to end and studied it for 11 years. I'm just curious, since your knowledge of the bible surpasses mine by a million fold, how did you ever come to the belief that it's a book of unsubstantiated myths and full of self-contradictions? At some point during those 11 years of bible study, you must of had faith in it. Please do tell what happened to you, if it's not too personal to ask. Please elaborate which book of the bible or which verse in your opinion is the one with unsubstantiated myths and full of self-contradictions. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?