GQ_jumper

LT. GQ JUMPER Quote For shame!!!!!!!! I'm getting looked at in a few months for e-7, and i will never trade my puny over worked under paid NCO paycheck for that of an officer, I like being at the front of the fight not hiding in a vehicle talking on the radio, as ossifers like to do now let me get back to my drinking at work History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

An Irish car bomb!!! My whole team decided to stay late and do Irish car bombs in the team room after a hard days work(we were doing HALO training all day). just thought I'd throw it out there, cause we all know how hard I work History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

The last time I did Irish car bombs at a bar I was drug out of the bar on a leash!!! By an asian girl History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

it would be kind of mean, but luckily they are brainwashed dummies and really think they are the new leaders, especially when we give them a badge made of of construction paper and decorated with glitter that says "Leedr" don't forget that even if we go to college we still have less intellect than those who went straight out of high school and will end up taking ten years to complete a degree and then making crap for a living afterwards, or so i've heard that's how it works, i think i read it in a history book somewhere Go Denver History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

So how come there wasn't a choice for those of us belonging to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That's what I believe in. BTW, I heard he IS a Jack Daniel's man History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

note: Amazon this isn't geared specifically to you I just hit reply to your post. It was mentioned a few times that the verdict will be appealed, an dI can't remember if anyone pointed out or not that the appeal proccess is automatic in Iraq whenever there is a life sentence or death penalty at stake. I know it's a little off topic as to who timed what in accrodance with jupiter aligning with aquarius and the mid-terms, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. night everyone, I'm off to the gym and then bed History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Those troops knew something - they knew that I really knew my shit. And I still asked for their input. Always. My decision, their input. It worked.Quote my team works much the same way and I have to agree that it works. This is the best team i've ever been on, not just in terms of personality dynamics, but in the way we operate and make things happen. And just about any time a decision needs to be made that affects the entire team the team daddy asks for everyone's input, including those who haven't been around very long. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I missed the part in your posts about the info coming from Army studies. Sorry about that. It can be pretty easy to get lost in an active thread sometimes. Quote No worries, I know I pointed to my own peers as examples plenty of times. Let me see what I can't dig up for everyone for hard numbers real quick though. Gimme a few minutes if ya would History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Quick response of thoe initial forces is not dependent on the logistics resources short of those that get them to the theater. However, logistics resources determine the maintenance of those quick reaction forces. If the logistics pipeline can't be set up within a couple of days, then they are in trouble. Then the logistics pipeline needs to expand to support the not-so-quick reaction forces that will be arriving. Hey now, don't forget us young buck SF guys I might not have been around when they were commonplace but I've gotten my trigger time on a 90 History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I have to take GQ's assessment with a grain of salt, since SF troops tend to be among the brightest available. I don't think his observable sample is representative of the entire Army. Quote I have never said that SF was a representation of the entire military, I mentioned a few examples citing my team mates and selection class. Most of the stats in my argument as I mentioned earlier were taking from Army studies on the subject, the military conduts these every year and lists the stats about education among the ranks, I didn't give exact figures as I don't have those stats on hand, I am looking for them though, but to the best of my knowledge they were at a pretty good level. Please don't take my post as trying to attack you in any way, I was just restating where I got my info from. In recent years I have been pretty impressed with how we are seeing more and more people come in with, or pursue college during their time in. I love the program I'm in right now, I get a certain amount to spend on college every year that is 100 percent paid for, after that it goes to 50 percent assistance if I remember correctly. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

That seems blatantly obvious to me. That's why wars cost more - they require more armor, more ammunition, more food, more fuel, more spare parts etc. When I worked for Grumman, their logistics pipelines operated VERY differently in peacetime vs wartime. Quote And all of the quick reaction forces we have in the military? those who are prepared to be on a plane within 18 hours of the call going out, I'm not arguing with you in any way that we can't just dump every penny we have into the latest and greatest so we can have it all at once. But there are instances when we don't have the reaction time needed to field new equipment at the last minute. And the fact that the same units who had body armor in Mogadishu were still the only units 7 years later who had such body armor says a lot. I won't argue with you about logistical channels working differnt in wartime, but we shouldn't be behind the power curve when the war kicks off, it is better to have and not need than need and not have. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I believe I included the phrase "en masse". No doubt Clinton sent some into harm's way, but not on the scale we've seen in Iraq, and we also didn't have so many casualties. Quote So are you implying that we don't need to be readily equipped unless the Pres. intends to send us to war, do you see that as a valid excuse for Clinton not hustling to get us body armor when it was first available? History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Sorry to spout off trying to talk myself up like a super-hero badass, it's just the best opinion i could think of. *** That was supposed to be example, sorry guess I was typng a little too late at night, we all know better anyways than to think I'm a badass History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

7 years in, Bronze Star and up for SFC.... and we can scuttle all that with a few thong pics... Seriously, dude... congrats on your achievements and thanks for your service. Quote I knew those pics would come back to haunt me someday, good thing I'm not running for office huh?!?! Thank you though, I appreciate it. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

(BTW I'm glad you were not one of the people negatively impacted by the shortages!) Quote In actuality armor does little if anything anymore, I've seen some of the weapons being used against our most advanced armor and they all defeat it. It's more of a safety blanket, I convinced myself to fight like it's not there, like any one of those round could be the one that does me in, and as I mentioned before I think the more agressive posture has done more to keep me alive than anything else. Sorry to spout off trying to talk myself up like a super-hero badass, it's just the best opinion i could think of. I think there were shortcomings on all sides though, when it came to this particular piece of equipment. And I agree with you when you hope someday we won't have to worry about whether or not we have the best equipment. As long as I don't have to carry it, it gets heavy. And I'm a wuss night gentlemen History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Wouldn't you think he (Bush) should have delayed deployment until the war machine was up to speed. No. Fuck the troops( the little guy). I'm all w/ you guys putting your lives on the line. It's this adminstration I have the beef w/. Stay safe Quote my personal opinion was that the war machine was more than ready and we should've acted sooner, less time for enemy forces to dig in. just my opinion though, I'm far from bein a General History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

As my dear friend SFC Cline just pointed out(thanks Matt), the enlisted ranks are full of bright people, but I'm sure you are goingto brush it off as being too small a sample to mean anything and then claim that you think less than 10 out of one hundred are pursuing an education(without anything to back up your statistics BTW). So how about we go through a couple of your comments shall we. I never said that because of the fact that I alone am taking college that all enlisted personnel are, please read all of my posts next time instead of picking and choosing, I won't restate my point as it's already been said and a closer look at what I said will show you that. To answer your question about my college though, last semester I took 7 credits, and this semester I was only able to take 3 due to the fact that I am preparing for another trip to Iraq and obviously training has to come before furthering my education. BTW, what does the number of credits have to do with anything, the simple fact that I successfully take classes while working far more hours than your typical full-time civilian employee, work out three times a day, keep my girlfriend happy, spend time with friends, skydive, and even walk my dog isn't too shabby if you ask me(or most other people for that matter). I never said I could speak for all branches of the military, how about i take away your ability to twist things I say. Less than one percent of all the people I have ever encountered in the military(the ones I had a chance to speak to about this subject) volunteered for those reasons which you speak of. And once again I ask, when did I ever talk myself up for having "street smarts"? I have mentioned life-experience and maturity, never once did I say anything about bein able to survive in the "hood". How about I define what life experience means to me so you can stop talking about your friend the crack dealer, when I speak of life experience I am personally talking about an understanding of the world beyond the classroom, this is not just the ghetto or the hood as you imply i keep referring too. Students spend many years in a classroom where I don't feel (notice I never spoke about how I know this to be true so don't even try it) that they get the chance to really experience what this world has to offer until they graduate, a soldier will most likely have experienced more of that, something that I personally feel has a lot to do with a person growing and maturing. Once again I never said my teammates represented the entire military, I was merely using them as an example. I have personally looked at the statistics collected by the military, and they have shown that a good percentage(again I don't know it off hand so won't throw out a number) of soldiers are taking classes and that number is constantly growing. On that note though, what does it matter what kind of class it is, the simple fact is that they are taking a college level course that will bring them a few steps closer to a degree in the long run, who cares if we take an upper level math course as opposed to "Intro to Crime in America"(my first college course by the way, I graduated at the top of my class). When you were in was different than now, even during a deployment most soldiers have more than enough time to complete at least a few credit hours. I could very justifiably say that SF teams are the hardest working guys in Iraq, wake up at 6 work out with the Iraqis, take them to the range at 8 finish mid-afternoon, prepare for a mission, hit targets til well after midnight, go to sleep, repeat!! This was most days last time I was over there and I still could have found time to study, again I'm not taking my team as the WHOLE ARMY as you say I do, but if we can do it so can all the support soldiers sitting on bases working shifts. Go to www.earmyu.com, I'm pretty sure they have countless stories listed on there about soldiers who finished degrees while in Iraq, a mix of associates and bachelors. Why must you be so condescending? you blatantly said I am too stupid to understand you until I finish college, if I ever do. I do not disagree that a higher education will get you money, but you say it like higher education and a bigger paycheck make you a better person. And why would Bill Gates be listed as the alpha male? Because he has money, money isn't everything pal, there is more to life than it, honestly if I could spend the rest of my life living off of ramen noodles in a trailor at the DZ training for the World Meet, I would competition is fulfilling enough for me. But someday I would like to have a family and don't want them to have to live like that so I am currently pursuing a degree(luckily there is an aspect of the corporate world that peaks my interest) so I can give my future child a great life. The fact that Bill Gates makes more than me in no way makes him superior, remember when you strip everything away we are still creatures of nature, and in nature the strong survive, and no I'm not talking about being a 300 pound crack dealing doorman named huggy bar. So quit using that angle, it's getting old quick. I did no such thing, I said a few of the people in my selection class failed for that reason, I believe the number was 2(if that, it's been a while). Considering the class started with 220, that's a good number, the other 140+ that didn't make it were for reasons other than lack of intellectual ability. No, I will. who are you to say I won't accomplish my goals. OK, so here you are stating that mosts large companies look down on soldiers, so you because you've asked a few you speak for all of them(yes I know you said most not all, but where are your facts huh?), wasn't it you who said the educated and enlightened tend not to speak in absolutes, do you have some statistics to back this up. I doubt it, there's a word for what this, I'll let you figure it out, you've been to college. And just because you couldn't make a decision without an NCO pointing you in the right direction please don't assume the rest of us are like that. Don't dre do shit without them, anytime the boss has other obligations that pull him away from the team we manage ourselves, and this can very well be applied for the majority of soldiers, I see them taking the initiative in the absence of leadership all the time. And who cares how far along I am, is this a race? Does it make a difference if at 35 I get the degree I want, so long as I was doing something I love along the way it makes no difference to me, I'm sorry if you see life about nothign more than reaching educational milestones young, but for some of us there is more to it. this is the way you percieve a successful life to be, not everyone. So a soldier serving their country and interracting with other cultures is intellectually inferior to a college student sitting in their dorm room smoking weed and doin beer bongs while debating how cheesy poofs are the gateway to an enlightened existence? Kind of sucks when people make generalizations based on an incorrect stereotype doesn't it? You were in no way ever me, let's look at your life vs. mine shall we? Dropped out, sorry no, as mentioned in a previous post I graduated with distinct honors at the top of my class and my test scores could have gotten me the college I wanted. Ran away to enlist at 17, I did enlist at 17 but not as a runaway, my dad couldn't have been more proud to see me volunteer to serve my country. My home life was great by the way I have wonderful parents. I enlisted because whether you choose to believe it or not, wanted to serve my country, nothign else, my grades were good, my home life was pristine, my college would have been paid for. Sense of duty, that's it, i needed a good challenge too Hated it, sorry I love my job, I have the coolest job in the world and the best team mates i could wish for. Getting out quick, nope already re-upped a few years back, did four my first enlistment, am working on five for my second. Had a few more goals to accomplish so I stayed in. 10 years later for a degree, nope sorry, I will most likely be around the halfway point on my bachelor degree whe I ETS and it will take me far less than ten years of school to get that masters, I guarantee you this. Some of us work faster, what can I say. Let's see married with children, nope sorry, unmarried, have a wonderful girlfriend who understands I won't marry until after I get out. Didn't re-up because I was unprepared to get out, there were other things I wished to accomplish, all of which I have, I have been totally successful in my military career thus far, and I am conifdent I will continue to be. So as for nailing this, you could not have been further from it, you in no way described me, I enlisted to serve my country, the minute I set foot in a recruiters office I said I would be Special Forces and look where i am today, 3 years on an SF team 2 trips to Iraq, numerous commendations including a Bronze star, will be gtting looked at for SFC in a few months(in 7 years that's not too shabby). I'm sorry if you failed to meet many of yor goals but please don't project your failures onto me. I am leading a very successful life regardless of the fact that you feel the only way to do that is get a degree QUICK and make as much money as Bill Gates, remember its what you make of it. and you know I am below you intellectually how? That's a pretty harsh attack there. And are you trying to make me sorry for your situation, you don't need to justify to me why it took you so long to finish college, if you had to support a family while studying, good for you, I don't measure a man by his education, but someone who can care for those who rely on them gets much praise in my book. Now again you claim to know exactly why I enlisted, even though it was during the Clinton years, as I mentioned before, college, grades, home life, couldn't have been better. I wanted to be a soldier, i dreamed about it since I was little, my father served and he inspired me. You seem to talk as if no one in the military is a true patriot who wants to serve merely someone hiding from the real world(a generalization never claimed it to be true). I'm sorry if you weren't Auddie Murphy, but don't use that as a reason to call the rest of us poor human beings. And as for the Clinton year part, you are serving regardless of whether it be in combat or not, although I hold combat in hgher regards, but when I enlisted I wished daily for a war to break out so I could prove my worth as a warrior.Sorry to wave flags, but it's true. Why do I feel this to be true, because I love one thing more than anything else in this world, combat. and no I am not some mindless murderer, ask anyone in these forums who has gotten to know me I'm the most friendly outgoing person you will ever meet. But I truly enjoy engaging the enemy in combat, I love it more than anything else. And you know what, I will be depressed when I get out, honestly I want to stay in, it chokes me up thinking that in a few short years I will have seen the last of my firefights, and will have stood next to my team mates for the last time as they are the greatest men I have ever met in my life. But I want to raise a family, and not have them worry about whether or not daddy will come home. I wish to give them a priviliged life, and that is going to require a college degree, that is why I am getting out. No other reason besides that. One last thing Id like to point out, you speak of college grads, intellects, and the type as if they are better people. Like yourself, but how many history books are you in? Will you be remembered someday? My team, the group of non-intellectuals you speak of, are in countless history books, we will be remembered years from now as heros. And maybe at the bottom of the page they'll mention that during a time when the US was at war there were those who ran away from home joined the military, got out after not accomplishing much, took longer than most "18 YO dummies" to get a degree and years later still doesn't make much income. But I doubt it. Hey you said it all yourself. Good luck And BTW, you can't use spelling and grammar as an argument as to my IQ or intellect, your typing has proved the same of you yet you brush it off as beinga "lazy finger" if I recall correctly, well then on that note, I have digital turrets, my digits(fingers in case any soldiers are reading) have outbursts and type whatever they'd like. Hey I can make excuses too History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I'd say it's the duty of a leader to not commit troops to action until they have adequate equipment. Committing troops with inadequate equipment to a conflict, hoping you can blame someone else, sounds like bad leadership to me. Quote Don't forget that it wasn't all that long ago when a helmet was the only piece of protective equipment that was issued to us, a few people were given flak vests as well but for the most part we only got to protect our noggins I'm not going to sit here and claim Bush was one hundred percent innocent Bill, yes there were other means that body armor could have been procurred, I'm not tyring to say you are completely wrong. But in all honesty we were in no way under equipped to move into Iraq when we did, I have personally operated many times without any sort of protective measure whatsoever, not just in terms of body protection but in unarmored civilian vehicles as well. I just find it a little wrong (IMO) to blame an administration which upped our budget for not having gear that should have been issued to us years prior. And honestly now I'd be more than happy to giv back all the new crap they give us give me plate carriers and a good rifle and I can take on the world The thing that gets soldiers killed is not lack of protection, it's lack of an agressive posture(and my team has proved this countless times. We work in very small teams, quite often there are six of us(sometimes less) in 2 humvees, an easy target. The thing that keeps us from being attacked most of the time is the agressive nature in which we present ourselves, we aren't hiding behind the armor, we've got a guy on top of each vehicle on the gun fully aleart just looking for some trouble to stir up, people think we are insane when they see one of us leaning off the side of the vehicle damn near climbing down onto another car that got to close to us. and then less than five minutes later a convoy of 30+ vehicles comes down the same route and gets lit up, all the soldiers were hunkered down behind armor with the guns unmaned because they didn't want to stick their heads out. I'm not making this up, it has happened countless times to us. Just a little food for thought Please excuse my horrible spelling in this post, I'm a little cranky right now and was typing a bit too fast, not to mention i'm only in the military cause I'm too dum to go to college History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

If that was true, the hullabaloo surrounding a US serviceman asking Donald Rumsfeld for more armor wouldn't have made a difference. But it turned out to be a good thing he did, because the result was an increase in armor shipments to Iraq. Quote Watching the armor come to us down-range the new vehicles with the armor built on was coming in-country as fast as I could see humanly possible, and the vehicles that didn't have armor when they werw built were having armor welded on as fast as welders could go. There was more armor in-country than we could have welded on, and this was before the incident you mentioned. Again I point back to the prior administration and say why is it that more than an entire decade passed between when the Army first started seeing body armor with the plates and when the last soldiers finally had them. More of that time passed under Clinton than under Bush. But hey with Clinton we had a smaller deficit, so who cares about the soldiers body-armor right? People compalin about Bush over spending and then at the same time yell at him for not getting us the equipment we need. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I was sat at a table wth 2 O6's, an O5 and an O4 Quote My friend you are a far braver man than myself, I won't hesitate to jump into a firefight but I will chew my arm off to avoid sitting at a table like that History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Yeah. Like all the body/truck armor they DIDN'T have when first deployed Quote You should check the facts before you go pointing fingers, the body armor and up armored vehicles that you see all around the military nowadays weren't readily available when we deployed. The government contracted companies to make them for us, and the companies were cranking them out full speed but could not field them fast enough. If you want to point fingers how about you wind the clock back a couple of years. The type of body armor we have today was being fielded to upper level Special Operations units prior to Somalia. The military budget back then was too small for the rest of the military to get the armor, as soon as Bush took over he upped the budget so the rest of the military could have it. And as for vehicles, the type of armor we see has only been around for a few years, again once GW took over he had it being fielded full-bore, but you can only move so fast. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I'm sure promotion isn't given just on the basis of study, but being admitted to the officer corps in the first place seems to depend on having a college degree. We have quite a few enlisted men and women come into our ROTC program as officer candidates. If they don't get the degree, they go back into the enlisted ranks. If they get the degree they are commisoned. But hey, it's not my rule, it comes from DoD. Get a degree, pass the physical, do some (very) basic, get commissioned. Quote I was just trying to lighten up these forums a bit And BTW, I'm pretty sure you are 100 percent correct when you mentioned earlier that it takes a masters to progress to the higher end of the officer ranks. I'll ask my CO next time I see him exactly when that is, but I do know that once they hit that point they are sent by the military to complete it. I believe it's before the rank of Major. As for promotion base on education though, you get extra points when looking for promotion to SGT or SSG if you have some civilian education. and I don't know exactly how much weight it holds for senior NCO promotions but I know it is included in the records that are looked at. Just thought I'd mention History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Imagine that. 2 days before the USA elections Quote this is truly pathetic that anytime something good happens someone somehow tries to tie it to the Bush administration engineering the outcome to happen to tie it in with a certain milestone. reporter: "And in the news today the President found a dollar in his pants while doing laundry, later that day he donated the dollar to charity." Half of SC: "Imagine that, Bush found a dollar in his pants, and only six months before his re-election cmpaign was kicking off. He forced the Secretary of the Treasury to plant that their so he would look good and get re-elected." And I guarantee someone is going to turn what I wrote into an argument about Bush not spending enough money to give to charity History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

then my question to him makes more sense, doesn't it? You got the wrong end of the stick. Quote Prof. Kallend, wouldn't him saying that imply that someone who learned through practical application(military), make them a better leader than someone who just studied the subject History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Actually, I am one of the college kids, in my spare time I'm pursuing a degree in marketing and in a few years when I get out I will be going to college full time to get an MBA. Yes, what would I know about the motives of people joining the military, after having served for going on 8 years now I've never once talked with all the people I run into or work beside about why they are here. You speak of your perception of why people join the military, so you have absolutely nothing to back up what you are saying. The military does a survey every year to determine everything from the ethnic breakdown of its ranks to the level of education, and the stats are looking better and better every year when it comes to the number of soldiers pusruing a higher education. I don't have them readily available but if you would like I would be more than happy to look them up for you. Another thing about those stats is usually they go off posted records of soldiers to determine who is going to college, and considering that most of us don't update our records but once every couple years those stats are a few years behind. So when I say the majority of soldiers are pursuing an education in their spare time, it's for a reason. Take a look at the army website sometime and it mentions all over it how easy it is to pursue an education while in the service, the military has countless programs to help soldiers take college classes. To join most of those programs all you have to do is attend a briefing and sign up and everytime I drive past the ed-center when they are going on there is a line going out the door. Where did I ever say anything about us being better people because we have "street smarts" I simply said that I feel life experience and maturity will make you a better person in the long-run. So you speak about how people who go straight to seeking a higher education are better yet you make continuous insults like this. None of what I said has been meant to be insulting or condescending, I am merely trying to enlighten you as to the fact that soldiers are not a bunch of mindless killing machines. I guess if I want to look educated I should start insulting college kids. So you're saying that all the written tests I had to take during Special Forces selection which eliminated some of the people in my selection class because they didn't have the problem solving skill and general knowledge to operate the way that we do were to prove that I am a mindless killer? And the written tests all recruits take when they are preparing to enlist are so they can pick the dumbest? Even though they don't have a cap on scores to keep the smart ones out, but they do have minimum requirements. Let's look at something else, in a few years I'll be out of the military preparing to enter the corporate world, after graduating when companies are flooded with brand new college grads who all have the same credentials for the most part, maybe there's a few honor society kids in there or someone who boasts being an eagle scout, who do you think is relaly going to have the advantage? There is a student who attended college just after high school, the high point of his resume is some sort of future entrepeneurs society and probably some academic achievements, both outstanding accomplishments that prove his ability to study hard and apply himself to a project. Then you have someone who spent close to 10 years in the military prior to attending college full time, the bright spots on the resume would probably include a few of the same academic achievements so looking at just the school portion the field is fairly level. But once you account for the fact that the former soldier has shown his ability to work as a team, work under adverse and stressful conditions, most likely has some outstanding military achievements(awards, commendations, and medals) from serving in combat, not to mention the soldier more than likely has extensive experience giving briefings to officers, and doing that requires you to be well-spoken, and confident, appearing before promotion boards also requires a great deal of confidence and you must present yourself in a professional manner. The soldier has also proven themselves to be a leader, officers aren't the only leaders in the military, actually they don't do much to lead, they write the plan and hand it to the senior enlisted leaders and let them make it happen. So who do you think is more likely to get the position? Look, I haven't tried to insult you in any way in my posts, but you constantly trash and belittle myself and my fellow servicemembers everytime you touch the keyboard. All I am trying to do here is open your eyes a little, we aren't a bunch of mindless machines who can't think for ourselves, yes the military is an alternative for those who didn't finish school and opted to get a GED isntead, but once in the military they have every opportunity to further their education. There are also those of us who had every opportunity to go to school but chose to serve our country instead, does that make us any less smart than someone who chose to go to college? Because I opted to fight for my country for puny wages instead of going straight to college to get out and make a 6 figure income am I an idiot? The experiences I've had being in the military will never be equalled by anything I'll do as a civilian. You also talk about me making claims about statistics, but what do you have to back up your claims? A lot less than I do last time I checked. Oh and a quick note on your claim about us not being in any better shape than civilians, again would you care to back up those claims? Also the sigline I have, as mentioned by someone else its a variation of a quote by George Orwell, not something out of a Jack Nicholson movie. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower