SBS

Watching Dateline and listening to the story of the two Christian girls who were arrested in Afghanistan. AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! These chicks freak me out. :-) Steve

I guess as long as the parameters of your relationship are defined ahead of time that is your perogative?? -------------- I agree -------------- I'm just not one to share my woman with anyone.. And when I am with a woman she is my world.. I have no need for others.. Why go out for beef jerky when you have steak at home.. -------------- For myself, I agree. I just believe that it is wrong to judge someone who is in a relationship that may or may not share those beliefs. In terms of your relationship, you have no responsibility to me or my beliefs, only to those of yourself and your SO. Steve

So A) What about swingers? B) I always flirt, and anyone with whom I am in a relationship knows it. If they go into a relationship with that knowledge, then can he (or she) who flirts really be considered a "cheat"? C) what you are describing in your first answer seems to me to equate to saying that you cannot look in your text book during an open book test, because 90% of tests are not open book. Do you really consider it to be that black and white? I think that just as there is a difference between killing and murder, there is a difference between kissing another and cheating, or having sex with another and cheating, etc., which is dictated by the relationship, just as the circumstances of a death will dictate whether an individual has been "killed" or "murdered". Steve

But whether you are in a marriage or not, you have to be true to yourself and your morals, and those who have given you their trust. I think that stands true with any relationship that you have with another human being, dating or marriage, romantic or friendship, etc. Steve

It seems to me that this is very personal between 2 people. It's based on the relationship that they have. Some people have relationships in which they sleep with other people, in which case, sex would not be cheating. I think the best way to know the answer is if you have to ask the question. If you wonder if you have cheated or not, you probably have. If you cannot come straight out and tell your significant other what you have done, then you have cheated the relationship that you have. I, for one, am against hiding things from a significant other. The irony, I think, is that the reason for telling lies is to keep the relationship intact, but if you have a relationship in which you lie, what kind of relationship is it in the first place? It's not between 2 people, it is between the alter egos that they have formed through their deceit. As far as what happens at the drop zone staying there, the drop zone is a place like any other. If there is the understanding in the relationship that things may happen there, and the other does not want to know about them, then so be it. If not, though, this sounds to me like someone's attempt to justify infidelities. But as you can tell, I have no opinion on the subject. :-) Steve

Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean you should be allowed to do it. Not only do put your own safety at risk, but that of other jumpers and spectators as well. Not to mention the possibility of infringing on the rights of every skydiver to jump if an injury/fatality gets enough publicity. ---------------------------- Everyone is at a certain amount of risk in this sport. Spectators included. What puts them at risk in this case is when, first and foremost, a) a hook turn is improperly executed, and b) when they are in the way. Proper education will greatly reduce the number of people that are injured in this sport from hook turns, both jumpers doing them, and spectators. Awareness on the spectators part will greatly reduce the number of injuries to themselves as well. If these people are whuffos and do not understand, they do not belong in the path of someone under canopy. If people are lining up along a pond to observe night swooping, they damn well better understand that there is a risk of getting injured or killed, just as if they were standing along side the track at a car race. If they are not willing to assume that risk, then they need to stand back. ---------------------------- If only Jeffery Dahmer's lawyer had known the best defense was, "But your honor, my client ENJOYS eating people!" --------------------------- Although funny, that's not even reasonable. I may change my mind if you can demonstrate how hook turning in any way is as evil or as directly harmful as eating another human being. We are talking about an extention of an extreme sport that we all love...not about something that is morally reprehensible. Steve

Not always; pulling at 500 feet is not worth the risk, and you will be banned from any DZ you try it at. We've decided that as a group. ---------------- One has nothing to do with the other. What I said was that in skydiving, as in hook turning, those who practice it are making a statement that the benefit is worth the risk. If you look at what I said, you would see that IF we were to consistantly pull at 500 feet, we would be making the collective statement that the benefit is worth the risk. Also, if someone regularly pulls at 500 feet, they are making the statement that for them, the benefit is worth the risk. If one does not understand the risks involved in an action, though, then this does not stand true, because they are not making an educated decision, i.e.-if a whuffo were to take a rig that he/she got at a surplus store, jump out of a friend's plane, and pull at 100 feet, not being educated as to the altitude needed to deploy a parachute. ------------------------- There are times for both. I have grounded people who were just plain incompetent, even though they wanted to jump and were willing to risk their lives. I've told people they couldn't hook turn because they weren't yet competent enough to do it reliably. Often, this doesn't work - they just go elsewhere. But since it does, sometimes, save lives, I'm going to continue to do it. -------------------------------- That is more or less what I was saying...you don't ground people for hook turning, you ground people when that is what is needed to drive the point home that they do not have the experience to be performing those types of maneuvers. Your goal is not to keep them from hook turning in the future when they know how to do it, it is to keep them alive for the time being. In other words, helping them to learn to do it safely. You are correct, they will go do it somewhere else. A good percentage of the time, it is not because they have been scolded, but because what has been conveyed to them is an attitude that is not helpful to what they feel they want to accomplish in the sport. That is one of the reasons I moved away from the DZ where I used to jump...all I got was an attitude of "don't do it". Moving here, I found people who were not degrading my abilities, but were saying, "here, let us help you to do this right". We are in a position of parenting, where when a youth in this sport is scolded, we need to make every effort to communicate the fact that we are doing it out of caring for both their well being and the future of our sport as a whole. Steve

Hook turns are fun. Swooping is fun. As far as I am concerned, they are part of my skydive, just as much as the freefall is what you value. Whuffo's will look at us many times, and say, "that just isn't worth it", or, "that's too dangerous". We, though, have made a choice that says that the benefit is worth the risk. People who hook turn and swoop are saying the same thing...they consider the benefit to be worth the risk. As skydivers, we do not appreciate when our families and friends are against us skydiving, but would appreciate support. I believe that this is the same thing, that people should not try to discourage others from hook turning, but encourage them to do it in the safest way possible, if that is how they choose to enjoy their time at the DZ. Just my 2 cents. :-) Steve

I'd do her, but not date her...she's a bitch. :-) Steve

Paul, On one hand, I agree, and I totally see where you're coming from. At the same time, though, there is any number of things that the first person you talk to may or may not appreciate. If they have a family member that died in a macrame accident, and you happen to mention that that is what your passion is, then who is to say that that is not going to affect the decision that the person makes regarding whether you will be hired or not. It's an exaggeration, but point is, where do you lie and where do you not? Something that may be completely normal to you may not be normal for the person to whom you are speaking. I maintain that honesty is the best policy, especially when the skydiving has been a part of your work experience, as in my case, and not just a weekend hobby. Steve

if it is hang up for them, I don't want to work there anyway... it will just cause problems later. -------------- I concur...I think that goes for any relationship, business or personal. Steve

Picture #1 - Uh, dude...your dinky's hanging out. Picture #2 - This angle's all wrong...I can't even get it in. Picture #3 - And the animal rights people thought shampooing animals was cruel... :-) Steve

there are very few people who take it clear off...it does drastically effect the canopy flight, though, which you can see as you loosen the strap. There are a couple of reasons why I don't undo mine...I lean on it while maneuvering for and during landing, if I were to hit the water, you could fly out of it while flipping, and for the reason that Clay mentioned, you never know what will happen before you land. The extra little added benefit is not worth the risk for me...of course, I'm not jumping a 58, either...can't really criticize their decision. :-) Steve

You are correct in your reasoning...a toggle hook will stop your motion, before starting again, moreso than a front riser approach. In addition, it is easier to bail out of a front riser approach than it is to bail out of a toggle turn. On a good front riser approach, it is not a snap motion, rather a long, drawn out pull on the front riser, meaning that at no point are you without option. When making a snappy turn, you are at the mercy of your previous decision, as you must wait for your canopy to recover. A canopy's recovery will be quicker in a front riser maneuver than with a toggle, because the action of a toggle is to depressurize part of the canopy...the front riser is exactly the opposite, in that it increases the pressure, and thus, the lift produced, by your canopy. I am with these other guys, though, that at 85 jumps, this is not what needs to be your main concern. Keep asking questions, and think through it...know your limitations, though, and don't get in over your head. Even though front risers are technically "safer" than toggles, it is still an extremely risky maneuver that requires experience to do properly. Blue Ones, Steve

Depends on the situation... If I am pulling at a regular altitude, when I recognize an unrecoverable malfunction, I chop it. If I were high, I would wait until around 2 to chop it, for the sake of keeping track of the canopy (unless it was a bag lock, in which case, I don't want to speed up like that...chop it higher, and allow yourself time to slow down). If I am pulling low, I would chop it as soon as I recognized a malfunction that had the potential of being unrecoverable. Below 1,000, 99.9% of the time, it's straight to reserve...cutaway will be an afterthought if it may be necessary. The only situation that I can think of to chop first, is in a full entanglement with another jumper where I would have to get away. It would be a last resort, but when one chooses that option, it is all they have left. At some point, it is not a matter of survival...it's a matter of death avoidance. Steve

Ok, so there I am at the local strip club...my pre-second visit to such a place. ( I went once alone, but that doesn't really count ). Anyway, some friends decide we should go, so we do. I had two favorite girls, one of which gave me lapdances paid for by my friend...not too shabby. As the other one was bouncing my nose against her cooter (which we are now fondly referring to as "multiple cooter docks"), I couldn't help but think..."I love my friends". :-) Steve

Why do you jump one Steve? -------------- Well, they're fun. :-) I love to swoop. That, to me, is one of my favorite parts of skydiving. Steve

Sorry for the double post...computer issues. :-) steve

Post deleted by skybytch

Interesting question coming from a guy that did pretty well in the Intermediate PPPB competition, so I gotta figure you have some thoughts on this yourself. ------------------------------ Thank you. :-) Yeah, I do have thoughts on it. I wonder, though, what other people's thoughts are. I'm sure that my opinions differ quite a bit from many, and there are many reasons that I may not see. I'm curious what people may come up with. Steve

In reply, all I can say is: Why even skydive? What do we see as the benefits that make the added risk worth it? ----------------------------- That wasn't the question. I fly high performance canopies, and I enjoy it. I was not saying that we should not. I am wondering why people do, what other people's reasons are. When people criticize others for hook turning, I do present them with the question that you asked. Simple question, seeking simple, straight forward answers... There are those who choose to fly small, high performance canopies. Why? Steve

A straight forward question, looking for straight forward answers... Why do people jump small, high performance canopies? What do we see as the benefits that make the added risk worth it? We have mentioned a lot of things in other threads, but I am just curious to see how people answer the direct question. Steve

yeah, spiderman did rock...we only have to wait 2 years for the next one... Everyone mark May 7th, 2004 on your calendars! :-) steve

I think we should send him an e-mail suggesting we know where he can find Tinkerbell...she's hanging out in his anus with her friend the gerbil, living off of the jam from the jar that is still stuck in his rectum because he can't afford the surgery to get it removed. That's why he has the little frills hanging down over his ass, so you can't see the pertruding smuckers. :-)

Steve you donkey dick who's your new GF? ----------------- I didn't say I had a GF, I said there was a girl who let me have sex with her. :-) And regarding "donkey dick", I just gotta say one thing...you are what you eat...oh, wait a second, that only works when someone calls you a pussy...damn...strike that...I'll come up with a better response... oh oh, I got one...AM NOT! :-) Steve