LuvToFly

..knew there would be some type of belief we'd miss... no exclusion intended - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Uh the Furor over Janet in the SUper Bowl????? Dunno... didn't see it... "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Hey some culture worshipped them... Just think of all those mother goddess paleolithic cultures. Many Many figureines with boobies.. Believe it was probably the whole depiction of a woman that was worshiped. Any less, would have degraded her to a sex object, and that would have reduced the people obsessed with breasts to mindless idiots

This subject came up in another thread - but was not the focus So, what do you think about this? Figured it's a good question since we all risk death - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Chris, Did see the photo, and would really love to have been involved in the cross jump - I have not heard of or seen this before - Are you aware of any other jumps - or a place to see any videos, or other stills like this? Also, how did this particular jump come to be (how organized, who planned it, etc.) and where was it done? While we are talking about the CSA, have you had any involvement a Christian Pilots Association? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Most folks made some thoughtful comments in answer to the question raised, and I think that's great - I personally believe God is real, and have had a close relationship with God for a very long time as a Christian. This does not demean anyone who does not call themselves by that term, and although narrow to some people, it does define my relationship with God. So please, no flames for me suggesting that everyone that does not believe like I do is full of c*** - that is NOT being said here. Quite the contrary, one of the most unfortunate things I am hearing is that people of strong faith sometimes try to beat folks over the head with the message - and I know a lot of folks have been turned off by that. I think it is important that we remember God is about Love. It is not about talking down to, preaching, bashing, coercising someone to think as we do on this topic. The message is really about God cares about us, and we should therefore exhibit that we care about other people by what we do, how we live, what we say. I think that is by far the greater evidence of God in one's life - and I believe this is how God would have us live. I don't believe that going to church is the only measure of whether someone's faith is real or not. I really do think it is about their life, what they stand for, how they treat other people. And in this regard, we are all very flawed - but for those who feel really grateful to God for everything, including the ability to skydive, I think it is a very natural outflow. After all, there can be no love, without gratitude. Some folks may not believe in God, and even resent the fact that folks are professing their faith on this thread. That is their perogative - but, of course, so does that right apply to those whose faith in God is tied in an important way to skydiving. But Skydiving is so close to death, that I think it extremely relevant to discuss. After all, how many have went out to dive not knowing it was their last day on earth? - One low hook turn away from the eternal? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Saw a link to this - Does anyone here belong to this organization? And if so, would you please communicate something about that group - Thought some folks may want to know - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

My FAA Licenses: 1) RotorCraft - Helicopter (am current) 2) Airplane - Single Engine Land Started skydiving last year, but did Hang Gliding years before any of the above - T.B. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

WOW - I had no idea there were so many non-drinkers in skydiving?? It seems, after the sun goes down just about everyone is goin' for a cold one! Apparently not! Don't drink either. Plus: Stomach + alcohol = "ugh" Not gettin' sick mind you, just kinda burns a hole in the stomach. Basically, am completely innocent and naive... "Right.." in Dr. Evil's voice. "...if they only knew..." So Dawn, have you ever had to ante up a case of DP for the group?? It's kind of uncommon for both wife and hub to "non-drink" - At least from what I have seen - Definitely like the ice cream idea (or any kind of chocolate)

Yes Relax! Easy to say, but a little tougher to do. Have confidence in your instructor, confidence in your training, and confidence in your preparedness. If you have questions or don't understand something, ask. Knowledge is a really great aid to relaxation - you are informed and you are trained. The actual free-fall relax part is being emphasized because as a belly flyer, your arched position is really helped by relaxing in a sense. I know when I started I was going to "shape" by body in the perfect flying position - and that only made it harder. Once I just allowed my body to relax in a box-man position, everything was smooth and stable - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Tom, this one liner certainly welcome! I think you've captured some very important and subtle points. Complacency = Danger. It would be the same for a high-steel worker, a traffic cop, etc. And unfortunately, the better we get the more we assume we can handle it, and perhaps get farther away from that overall respect one has initially that you are doing something that deserves your full attention and conservative judgment if you want to stick around - Good one! TOM "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Thank Katrina - good observation - The key really is to know how to have good control over your turning - and to make a determination what way you need to go, and to line yourself up accurately and quickly before tracking. This would seem to be particulary important in a large formation where horizontal separation needs to be attained over a large area with many divers quickly. The degree examples are given for practice purposes. In other words, it would be very difficult for someone to drill to turn from their present position, 33 degrees, or 68 degrees, or something like that. Learning to execute tight and on-heading 90, 180, 360 teaches the ability to start and then stop on a desired heading, which enhances overall rotation control. Point taken may be if someone is sloppy about their heading control, the problem is greatly magnified when tracking - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

What's your tracking information say? Where does the computer think it is?? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Excellent point on the tracking Katrina! I would add a need to refine the ability be to very accurate in your break away turn rotation prior to tracking. Some folks have trouble knowing when they have completed a 180 with any real precision, and then can track away on a collision course if the timing is right (or wrong, one might say) Motto of that one - make sure you develop the ability to make 90, 180. 360 turns quickly and to stop on heading accurately. Practicing turn accuracy during freefall might seem boring or a waste of lift ticket - but that skill may really save you someday - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

All really good suggestions and observations - Will add a few more: 1) Don't be afraid to ask for a coached jump. It does not matter how many jumps you have, or don't have. If you are planning to do something that you do not feel quite comfortable with, get a coach to review that with you, and jump with you if possible while you work on that. 2) Related to above, know when you SHOULD feel unfortable doing something. Unfortunely, there are so many really talented people flying these days that it reminds me of the first piano player I ever saw as a kid. I thought to myself, "hey that doesn't look so hard - I'm watching his face and he ain't even strainin!" 20 years of playing keyboard later, there are still things that guy was doing that I can't do (sort of ticks me off - but that's another thread!) The take away I think to be aware that the really, really good ones at anything make it look to damn easy! Do not be fooled by this! Advice: Do not underestimate the amount of talent, experience it takes to do certain flight manuevers - It may look easy, but it is probably not. Get a coach. Let's keep it going folks. Great ideas and experiences shared so far! T.B. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

The question is not to invite a fight. Seen the raging debate over safe-vs-unsafe, etc. It is to contribute towards a thought-list where the results could be useful in helping people to make better judgment calls and safer skydiving choices. A lot of you have a lot of knowledge on the topic. Ron comes to mind right away - What sez' we list some of the lesser emphasized things that can add to safety. This list does NOT negate the main things to remember, flying in high winds; low turning, need for up to date training and currency, etc. But maybe we can come up with some further thoughts about what can we do to make the sport, or in particular, an individual skydive/skydiver safer. I have read the reports about fatalities, etc and there is a bunch of stuff missing from those reports that we will never know. For instance, what was the mental state of the person who reacted poorly? Stressed out, fight with wife, etc. I think there are some factors behind the scenes that are never fully weighted. Please no one-liner jokes. I am asking folks for some serious suggestions about perhaps lessor talked about safety factors - I'll give a couple: Before you jump, you should be aware that the following factors may affect your judgement, your reaction time, your concentration, and your ability to dive safely. 1) Mental/Emotional condition: Are you: - Very pissed off (can affect concentration) - Very distracted - Something really good, or really bad going on in your life that is taking up a lot of brain CPU cycles? - Just had a fight with your S/O (emotionally distraught) Physical: Are you: - Overtired from not having any or enough sleep - Hung over (okay, don't give me a hard time on this one) - Injured: (heard of an instance where someone had a sore or stiff neck, and had a collision because they had limited range of motion and could not scan the sky but a very limited range. Gotta see who is around you!) - Sick: Got the flu, body aches, pull out a muscle Misc. Factors: - Hearing the call to board a little too late, and rushing to gear up, make the load, etc - Don't mess with your limitations. Be agressive in your learning if desired, but also be realistic about your abilities Equipment: - Do you actually check your webbing? Most people I have seen do not do a complete webbing check before gearing up. Check the seams, under flaps, buckle conditions, paying particular attention to anything having to do with the leg straps.. etc You get the idea. What can be added to this list? Try to think of things that don't show up on the fatality reports as factors, but we all know as human beings, can play a role in making your skydive less safe - And if you think they are good suggestions, but you don't personally follow them, list 'em anyway - this is not a roast. Think of it as a list you could hand to someone in the sport as a mental checklist to assess their condition. You may be saving someone a big mistake by listing some of these things. Also, you instructors especially, you see tons of weird stuff (related to skydiving, that is). What have you observed that can happen to people to affect performance, concentration, etc. Note: I know there is information around concerning this. I want to know what YOU think is a factor. T.B. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Frank - Thanks for serving over there - Particularly with the dangerous conditions, I am sure it does not make it any easier - Keep your eyes sharp and your head low. Hang in there. We'll keep a spot on the plane warm for ya ' "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

The whole subject of communicating in the event of a canopy collision looms large in my mind. In an instant, you may need to be yelling up or down to someone, and have some idea what they are saying as well to coordinate a life-saving manuever. Just not worth a tune in my mind. It's is a little bit like closing the world off with headphones while driving a car - but you did not hear that person beeping your horn at you while they were spiriling out of control before slamming into your car. Some things, I think, deserve our full attention - and definitely believe skydiving to be high on that list - T.B. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Just keep in mind that some folks find the ZP very difficult to pack because they are so slippery - If you are packing a mini ZP, the size that a lot of experienced folks use - it can be a lot easier. But stuffing 210SF of ZP into a bag can be very challenging for some - This is not such an issue for you at this point, but may be something to consider if you intend on packing yourself - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

The scene when he confronts his mother was.. well it really hit - Also, thought D.W. did a great job in the part of his superior. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Your status as "newbie" as I understand it is determined by the number of posts you have made. It changes automatically as you reach each threshold. On the picture - just click the Browse button, locate your picture, make sure it shows the path in the directory, and make sure you see the radio button filled in at the right - Then select, "Make Changes" from by clicking on the button of that name on the lower right. Choose "View your profile" BUT hit your browser refresh button to see your picture Note that the format is something like 65 x 75 pixels, JPG "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Caravan? You mean Skyvan? and I believe they have 3 Twin Otters not two. And 2 King Air 100s and a Porter. Oh yah, and last time I saw they had a couple fo L-39s. For entertainment purposes of course. [/reply Excuse my 3:51 AM thinking!! Stupid mistake - Yes, Skyvan - But only ever saw two Twin Otters. Was not aware of the third... "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

I am sure you will get a variety of opinions - but for the best guarantee of "jumpable" days, Eloy, AZ is really hard to beat. I think they have something like 340 jumpable days out of 365. A Caravan, Two Twin Otters, a DC 3, and great coaching. SkyDive Arizona is pretty top shelf - Also, very large area of land outs if need be with no fences, trees, etc... Hot in the summer months, but Florida can be very oppressive in June/July as well. Drop zone is closed down on Tuesdays and Wednesdays June/July I believe - I was just there in December, and am going back in Feb - generally a great group of folks there - TOM "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Mark, I think most would agree that there is risk in both sports. Watching paragliders off of Torey Pines in California two years ago made me more nervous than skydiving. Something about running off that cliff with the chutes not quite inflated... But I think you owe it to yourself to try. It's been a while, and you may find your perspective has changed. And if, when you do, you still think it is just too terrifying (although think it will be fine if you paraglide) consider if it is for you. Better not to force things because as it was mentioned, panic almost always produces mistakes. There will be risk in either venue. I mean, one is flying through the sky with the Leonardo DiVinci's dream of unassisted flight. And your equipment will only take you so far - The most nervous folks I trained with were the ones that were unsure of the material, or just had a hyper-fear of failure, etc.. Pay very close attention to your training; ask questions, and know your emergency procedures. These things will help build your confidence in most cases - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Amy, Used to have nervousness going from the seated position to the door - but not in the door. Just the short walk there. Go Figure? (That's probably because the modified King Air was so tight it was a bear to get from sitting to standing/stooping) Seriously though, you may be nervous up to the point where it's time to go for it. But if you are like most folks, once you leave the plane, you'll be zoned into your flight, and be enjoying under canopy before you know it - Nervousness is nature's way of telling us to pay attention - Review your emergency procedures and rehearse them a few times. It feels right to be prepared - and then.. enjoy the sky :) "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky