LuvToFly

Bill, Definately want companies to survive, but unfortunately, that is the same kind of reasoning that is put forth by those wanting to participate in the corporate greed plan. While there is no political motivation in the question, I think it may be misleading to point to the government (another poster). The problem exists in the people - the greed I speak of gets accumulated as people who have worked for companies faithfully for years and years get tossed aside WHILE substantial raises are voted to the upper most eschelons in the corporation. It is this indiscretion of which I refer - and that is not a political problem really - it is a human one. Much harder to solve. Of course not saying this applies to all corporations - but too many have gone this way as is evidenced by the hordes of displaced people on the unemployment lines (if they are lucky). The fact is, some of these folks are there not because the company did not have the money to pay them, but because their departure funded someone else's fortune at a higher level. At a company I worked for at one time (a fortune 500 corporation) the execs cut tons of workforce (I survived that cut), and after they were gone and the dust settled, they voted themselves a 50% increase in pay. Execs that were making $500,000 were now making $750,000, and folks making $1,000,000 were now making 1.5 mi. Seen too many good people go out the door in this climate of greed. But perhaps most important, the entire outsourcing idea is badly flawed, particulary when it comes to is it cheaper: Of all the IT folks I know, most will just about kill themselves to solve a problem, go the extra mile, keep a system running, etc - because they have stake in the technology - but it's also important to them. This may mean a lot of extra hours worked voluntarily over the course of a year. This is never calculated by the bean counters when an outsourcing event is adopted because they many times don't understand the level of dedication of the tech. The outsourcing company (whose contracts I have had to review) have strick rules and want extra money for everything over and above. This particular company ended up spending 1.5 million dollars more than it would have cost to keep the employees - but they kept their raises - and that's just wrong - at least in my book. (Oh they also kept their jobs - can you imagine making a screw up like that??) Perhaps this is more relevant to IT Outsourcing - which is the kind this question is chiefly about. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Jennifer - Just in case it DOES get tense - I have heard an explanation that makes a lot of sense that might be helpful to you if you get into this in a big way: Life is full of uncertainties, and a large part of the reason for that is all the subleties, nuances, and crap like that. What is that person thinking?? Why is it that some people can do a really good job at something, and others do a poor job and get positively recognized - and so on and so on. There seems to be no logic or pattern to the "rules" sometimes. There is something very satisfying, and refreshing about being involved in a sport where there are no questions about the rules - of gravity that is. There are certainties, and sure that may mean if you don't deploy, you're goin in. But the whole realm is both unforgiving, but much more predictable than most people's day to day world (the occasion mal excepted, of course) I mention this as I have a friend for whom skydiving starting to take a toll because the S/O really did not understand the motivation. Thought they may have wanted to stray, were losing interest in them, etc.. Hearing this explanation - that there are some of us that really enjoy cuttin' through the bulls*it and getting into something where you know where you stand, you know what's at risk, and you have the satsifaction of knowing you performed well under those circumtances, helped the S/O to understand that this is neither a death wish nor did it represent a lack of interest in them. Skydiving is raw - you're out there and you feel like a lot of the outcome really is in your hands - so that when you have that great landing, you just know that it was no accident, not prejudicial, and not pure luck - but a byproduct of your training, your nerve, and your ability to concentrate. No politics, no B.S. - Just a thought - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Although this is a computer geek question, it's open to any - Have you been affected, either directly or indirectly by the trend to outsource, particularly to off-shore service organizations, etc? And if so, how many jobs have you seen go because of that? Seems that there are just too many people being dumped by this practice that seems to have clear roots in greed - although I only say that because in the corporate instances of this practice I have known first hand - the money "saved" funded increasing raises and retention bonuses for the uppermost - while the less senior crowd got their jobs displaced. Anyone else ticked off about this? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Of course, though, there are now corporate Help Desks located in India. So folks call across the ocean, talk to someone they barely understand, that gets interpreted by a person from a different culture/language - gets sent back to the states as a Work Order ticket. Thousands of miles, and two language translations before it can get back to a tech to help someone sitting next to them because their inkjet printer is stuck. Some genius got a raise for this plan. Here's a clue: The printer cost about $40 to buy, with cartridges in this case. Could have had some in stock, thrown the other one away and plugged in the new one and would have been cheaper than this process. Okay, getting pissed off. Gonna start a thread about outsourcing - anyone been affected by that?? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

That is what corporations call, "process." If you can make up a cool enough process with every conceivable stencil to represent every minor stage of the problem to the fix, it's perfect. And the less the higher-ups understand it, the better they think it is! (okay, stereotyping a bit. but let me have my fun!) Doesn't matter that it's inconvenient and sucks. Usually is the result of someone in the corporation whose job depends on Process Improvement. Believe me, this can be just a frustrating for the tech person (my end) as the person needing help. Yes, we'd rather not have folks crashing in - but processes need to have outs to be effective. They can be efficient, but not effective. - Okay good story: Was managing the desktop team at a major corp and one of the team members came up to me and said he was sick of dealing with a particular woman who was gettin' very rude with him. She was sales, in the field, with laptop and seemed to call just about every day - and yet, there did not seem to be anything wrong with the hardware, O/S, etc. She said, "this laptop stinks! I can't even see the display in the slightest well-lit room. What good is it!" Time came for a refresh, and when the laptop was sent in from the field, the same tech called me down and told I should see something. There was a laptop case - which he unzipped and held upside down over the lab table. All this crap coming pouring out - like some big dust devil. Turns out - this was not only being used as a laptop case (apparently) but it also had become a MakeUp Case. There was foundation powder throughout everything - the keyboard - even the internals. And you needed almost a Red-Devil scraper to get it off the screen. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Happy birthday bro! "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Really sorry to hear about that. Messing with someone's ability to earn a living is crossing the line for any reason since we are talking about doing damage to one's reputation! I have seen this kind of thing happen in co-workers unfortunately. That is where you can sometimes find a jealousy or whatever motive. It's pretty unusual to have someone that does not really know the person at all or even well to try to backstab. Can't help but think... who is it that has no skeletons in their closet, that they feel confident in trying to hurt another person this way?? Very lame - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

If one has been living the best life they could up until then, there is very little to need to do in the last 24 hours. One should be telling and showing all of those around them what they mean to them throughout your whole life. We could never address that in 24. Whatever good, whatever positive energy towards those you love, and perhaps even those you don't love so much, might well be an ongoing expression because again, 24 is just too short. True Story: I knew a man once who died at the age of 85. This guy had been a self-made man, and had accumulated quite a bit of $$ in the bank. But his relationship with his children was terrible. He was a grumpy person who would almost push people out of a buffet line to get fed first. This guy was a trip. But he had a master plan. When he died, he set it up so that all of the money he had would be given to his church (Catholic - although it could have been any church). Clearly, he thought he could be a nice guy when he did not need it any more. And so, his 24 hours came, and he released the $$ to his designates. No one thought anything higher of this guy for doing this - it would appear there are no last minute saves in how one treats others. You ask a great question - but I think it is better served as a wake up call than a scenario because you will not be able to make up what you could have or should have done in one's life in 24 - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

All depends on what is meant by "smart." Some of the smartest people, and some of the most intelligent, did not have much in terms of $$. But many are like that due to certain paths they chose in life, being intelligent enough to have figured out what would make them happy without havin' to get there (rich) and come up empty - So the irony is that they don't see themselves as poor at all. Suicide exists among the rich and famous and adored as well - so it does not imply a fulfilling life, apparently. I agree with the poster who said it is more about happiness. And to know what will make you happy, or bring fulfillment, you are better off smart. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Hey best of luck to you with that.. I had a buddy break a leg 'bout a week ago in Eloy while getting through his L3 AFF. Did great on freefall, stability, no instuctors holding on, good canopy control - but flared very high and let 'em go - He just had surgery on Friday and got 8 screws and a plate. But he is already talking about going back. It's like we are all crazy - but in a good way, of course!

Michele - VSG brings up a really good point. Drugs for certain kinds of pain can produce nightmares for a lot of folks - Even something as benign as Vicodin has caused nightmares in several people I know - and one even tested it out. Went to bed without it - had no nightmare. Took it the next night, had nightmares, etc. Things with narcotic components are suspect for some folks having nightmares. As a kid, had recurring bad dreams which ceased when I realized I could have control over what I did end up dreaming about. What I exposed myself to and intensely thought about in the hour or so before I went to sleep had a great effect on the content of what I dreamed. Maybe that will work for you. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Never wanted kids - Growing up in a tough environment, my brothers and I were sent the clear message that kids were a pain in the a** by parents who seemed to clearly regret the fact that they had kids - even on the level of the fact that kids inhibited what they wanted to do, where they wanted to go, etc... (babysitters, etc) but they were also very abusive. When you grow up like this, you just KNOW in your heart that kids are bad, will be a pain in the butt, and will keep you from living the life that you might be able to live. The result: Met a woman who the thought of NOT having kids was not an option - and loved her very much. Separated for two weeks to think it over, and decided that if I really Love her, I would not want to deny her of children - so with great fear of what kind of father I would turn out to be based on my own past, we got married and had two children. If I died today, there is nothing, I mean nothing that I would take greater satisfaction, feelings of accomplishment, and love from this life like my children - And although they are older now, they still continue to be the greatest "accomplishment" and blessing that I could have ever received. This may, or may not work for you that way. It depends on your level of committment. But I think it is very important to deeply consider why you DON'T want to have children. If it is something that you inherited from someone else, you may be missing out on something that will be very meaningful to you. At least, that is the way it turned out for me. But it was also evidence that I could be a good father, not be like my parents, and raise children that truly loved and respected me. And don't think one can put a price on that... "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

I was the the second RW group out on the first pass. Was wearing blue suit with Royal blue rig and big ol' Havok helmet. Rig had "Diver Driver" monigram on it. Sitting left side near the back. Where were you? Chris - I was about 2 or 3 guys from the no smoking sign on the left front. I was wearing blue, except in my case, the monogram was, "Square2", and had on a red full-faced helmet - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

How many of you know "Late Jake?" I had to opportunity to meet him, do some two ways, and I think he may have even been on a 9-way hybrid or a 12-way I was part of in Eloy this past week - He's going to be 82 years old, and he's this active in the sport! This guy is awesome!! (he's also got some great stories!) "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Chris, Were you on the DC-3 load at end-of-day Tuesday at Eloy? I was on that load as well - Been in Eloy since last Wednesday = today last day of jumping as am flying home tomorrow - Eloy just rocks - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Hey wait, you're from Lititz! You can't jump on that!!

Hey wait, you're from Lititz! You can't jump on that!!

Refer to previous post. That was not an insult but a statement of fact. Once again you did not hear what was being said. Sorry, just being consistent. Dear, sweet Mary. Why what ever are you talking about? I don't know what you mean by me thinking you are consistently lurking the threads looking for opportunities to jump in and argue with me. Well I do declare, why would I ever think that???

That's a really good idea. - Thanks Chris for the description of circumstances around the cross jump. Anyone interested in putting together formations that express your faith - please send an email to: wecare@helpforhurt.org We don't have to wait for an event like WFFC - there are also other venues and opportunities - Please drop me a note if this is of interest to you, and I will send out info on some ideas around organizing jumps under this banner - PM'd you PILOTCHICK TOM "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

FYI: Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color. -Josh I guess there are none of the Jewish faith left. Here is the list from my original post - looks like about 14 million according to that survey a few years ago - Christianity: 2 billion Islam: 1.3 billion Hinduism: 900 million Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million Buddhism: 360 million Chinese traditional religion: 225 million primal-indigenous: 150 million African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million Sikhism: 23 million Juche: 19 million Spiritism: 14 million Judaism: 14 million Baha'i: 6 million Jainism: 4 million Shinto: 4 million Cao Dai: 3 million Tenrikyo: 2.4 million Neo-Paganism: 1 million Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand Rastafarianism: 700 thousand Scientology: 600 thousand Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand Someone must have edited the jewish people out?? "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

The only "failure to communicate" is your inability to hear what people say if it does agree with you. If you truly want to learn about skydiving jump down off your pulpit and check what this site has to offer. As for your friend, well he seems to have materialized at just the right time. 5 jumps and several home drop zones, I don't think so. Okay, I see your evil plan, the insults you have sent me are not working, so you are going to bore me to death. Now that's REALLY cruel "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

It really is becoming increasingly recognized that Aethism is a religion in that it believes in that which is unprovable, which would make it a matter of faith, and this is not just the view of those who believe in a God. Please see the poster at this [URL "http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=893652#893652"] LINK [/url] who gives a thoughtful elaboration as to that relationship. "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Gotta wonder sometimes... Point proven. You did it to your own post hijack Hey there Mary - you never disappoint me! Always not too far away with a smart-ass comment. Consistency rules! WooHoo! "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

Gotta wonder sometimes... "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

I'm not in that club. In fact, Andrea is going out of her way to meet up with me while I'm out in Florida. And I even got to go climbing with Andrea will out in Eloy. BTW LuvToFly, you may want to check on the reply numbers to this thread. Some of them haven't had any thing to do with what you wanted to discuss. It's called "hijacking" Hey, it's everybody's discussion - just my poll - "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky