Nataly

Ooohhh.. Macbook Air... SOooooo envious... Where is the green emoticon when you need it?? Congrats on your new baby

Funny... I just googled the word and the following definition popped up: "Feminism refers to movements aimed at defining, establishing and defending equal political, economic, and social rights and equal opportunities for women.[1][2][3] Its concepts overlap with those of women's rights. Feminism is mainly focused on women's issues, but because feminism seeks gender equality, some feminists argue that men's liberation is therefore a necessary part of feminism, and that men are also harmed by sexism and gender roles.[4][5][6][7] Feminists—that is, persons practicing feminism—can be persons of either sex." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Nice one!!! "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

So.. Are you saying I'm not cute or that I bought the wrong kind of beer??? I've put myself on the line and I've been rejected. It happens. ETA - I still stand by my original premise that working on yourself/finding happiness is a worthwhile endeavour. And if I had to pick between this and buying someone a "pity beer," I would choose my option! But then I would.. It's my idea!! "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

The situation you describe could happen the other way around... Should we really feel sorry for the guy (in this scenario)? He seems happy; she seems happy... What exactly is the problem?? If she is "settling" for "plan B" and he is a sucker, then they both are losers... Her for not having the courage to find the right partner, and him for marrying someone who doesn't really love him. Again, though.. If both parties mutually agree to this situation and are aware of what is going on.. Well, it's their life and they can choose to do whatever they want. Takes two to tango, my friend... "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

You discount overwhelming bodies of evidence on the basis that the people carrying out the research are all "whackjob feminists"? Really? Facts are facts. The reasons behind them are difficult to prove/understand. But a person's wage is clear-cut. Their duties can be defined/examined. And someone's gender (for the most part) is also not very arbitrary. Now if you're saying that thousands of studies are skewing the data/results... Well, you're saying you're smarter than a whole lot of people who are educated, peer-reviewed and who specialise in the field and who, by the way, don't all have a vagina. So ok. If that's how you feel, you're entitled to your opinion. "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Totally agree with that. Not until women earn 100 % of college degrees and make at least twice the average income of average male can we start talking about there being equality between the genders. Umm.. I'm guessing that is tongue-in-cheek.. I, for one, am not asking to have the situation reversed so that there is an imbalance in the opposite direction.. That would be just as bad. The solution to a problem is not more of the same.. If you believed that, you believe the way to deal with the holocaust would have been to kill 6 million Germans as well. . And that's just nuts. First you said women earn majority of the college degrees and then you said its not enough. So what is it? Do you want female supremacy or not? Actually, that is not at all what I said. In fact, if you go back, I quote Madeleine Albright on a comment about "female supremacy" as you call it. I do not want male *or* female supremacy. I want *balance,* fairness, and equal opportunity/recognition. A really good point made by someone else: why don't businesses just hire more women if they're cheaper. Well, if women are paid less, it could be that they are perceived to be *worth* less. And that's an even bigger problem. I'm not suggesting it's that clear-cut or simple.. Like I said... The reasons/mechanisms behind the imbalances are complex. But the imbalances are there, and they need to be worked on. "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Actually, for women, it does make you damaged goods. The more sexual partners a woman has the less able she is to commit to another man and form a bond with him. Here is a nice picture to illustrate that. Are you really saying that the numbers explain the "why"? There could several other reasons why fewer partners is correlated with more lasting marriages. Culture and religion, for instance. Nothing in that data suggests/proves that either gender becomes "damaged goods" after having more sexual partners. Having life experience (good and bad) doesn't "damage" everyone... Many people *learn* from mistakes. Many people learn *better* by making mistakes. "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

I agree completely. Making dating mistakes is fairly common and it doesn't mean you come out of it as "damaged goods." Many people take time to get to know what they want and what kind of partner is really good for them. If later on in life they re-visit a relationship they ignored in the past, *both* people can feel like they've won the lottery. We don't all get it right the first time - in fact, most of us don't. "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Are you honestly arguing that corporations have two paycheck lists, one for women and for men? Because if you are then you're fucking delusional. I'm going to over-simplify here, but women earn less than men who are in the same jobs and at the same level. It's a verifyiable fact. The "why" part is obviously more complex than having "two paycheck lists." "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Totally agree with that. Not until women earn 100 % of college degrees and make at least twice the average income of average male can we start talking about there being equality between the genders. Umm.. I'm guessing that is tongue-in-cheek.. I, for one, am not asking to have the situation reversed so that there is an imbalance in the opposite direction.. That would be just as bad. The solution to a problem is not more of the same.. If you believed that, you believe the way to deal with the holocaust would have been to kill 6 million Germans as well. . And that's just nuts. "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Completely agree. Like I said - equal does not mean "the same." Equal access/opportunity doesn't mean women will *want* the same jobs... But unless there is a valid reason why they *can't* do it, they should be able to. And there is a whole host of things women are good at, and some of these are not currently being recognised (or rewarded). I'm sure the same can be said of men as well. Re the state-funded childcare thing.. A valid point - not everyone has children so not everyone would want to pay for childcare.. I don't know what the solution is... All I know is that whether you have a penis or a vagina shouldn't determine what you can and cannot do in life... That's all. "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Ok, maybe, but some/more of our taxes surely should go toward childcare.. And some men should look after the children instead of their wife. I'm talking about *balance*... It's not just about earning the same amount of money... It's much deeper than this. "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Does it apply to people who talk about how little they have? I'm not answering for Spence... But yeah... Someone who constantly plays the victim card is just as unattractive to me as someone who constantly brags... "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

I actually really love this quote "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

It's funny... I liked this guy I met at a DZ because he listened and he was sensitive and funny and clever... But he kept throwing around how much money he had... And he kept dishing it out on expensive meals and drinks and stuff... Quite frankly, it really put me off... It was almost like he was showing off... And to me, having lots of money is *not* a quality - it's something you have, not who you *are.* I would have respected him a thousand times more if he never made a big deal about it, and never talked about it, and spent it conservatively and reasonably. I would have respected him a lot more if he understood the value of it, even if he didn't have much money at all... "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Hmm.. Girls have been out-performing boys in school for a long time. Women have also been out-numbering men at university for a number of years. Women get about 50% of the jobs as soon as they leave university, but they severely fall behind afterwards. Because they have children, or they *might* have children, or because the system is designed by men, for men, et cetera, et cetera... It will take a very, very, very long time for an equilibrium to be reached... And by equality, I don't mean "the same." Men and women are not "the same." Sure, there has been a LOT of progress even within my lifetime (thank goodness!!), but we still have a long way to go before there is balance and fairness within the workforce... "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

That report supports all my arguments thus-far... Outnumbering men at university is not an indicator of success / equality in the workforce. Read the full contents table... It's not a pretty picture for women. Not yet. Madeleine Albright gave this excellent interview on Ted.com about the positive things that start to happen when you empower women and give them equal opportunity, et cetera. http://www.ted.com/talks/madeleine_albright_on_being_a_woman_and_a_diplomat.html She also made a funny (but insightful) comment at 9:10: "well I do think when there are more women, that the tone of the conversation changes. And also the goals of the conversation change. But it doesn't mean that the whole world would be a lot better if it were totally run by women. [...] If you think that, you've forgotten high-school!" Well, I agree... I think it's not good to have an imbalance of power/opportunity for either gender. The fact is that *both* have something to bring to the table. "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

No, I'm not serious. I'm just pointing out that even by his screwed up logic he has nothing to complain about! "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Ok... You are *clearly* not talking about me here... And even if your theories were right... That women only want money and men only want sex... If it's consensual and mutually beneficial, what the hell is the problem, anyway??? If it really were that base and that simple, then seriously.. Women have pussy; men have money. It would mean that there is a fair exchange going on.. Why do you find this so upsetting?? "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Well there you go!!! That's the argument of the century for fairer opportunities... Give us equal pay and we get more frisky - everyone is happy!!! "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

True. They actually get paid more. http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/03/us-workplace-women-idUSN0334472920070803 Never heard women complain about it before though. This still supports my argument - women earn less. If women in their 20's are ahead and fall behind from their 30's, that's at most 10 years when they earn more, and overall, 30 to 40 of the highest-earning years where they earn less... That's hardly a good deal, IMO... And that doesn't even factor in the pension years where they are still earning less because pensions are based on your salary when you retire... Many women never even get a pension because they don't have a "long enough" career for a variety of reasons (including kids, for instance). Sorry, but same pay for the same job is a long way off still... "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

Social conditioning? If it really were a social construct then It'd be gone in one generation. Not that long ago being gay was considered a mental illness. Nowadays being gay is a non-issue and gays can get married and probably soon will be able to adopt children too. Women not approaching men has shit all to do with social constructs and everything to do with biology. Social conditioning does not take only one generation to disappear. But granted, an element of biology is probably at play as well. And homosexuality is *not* a non-issue... If it were, it wouldn't even occur to you to mention it! "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss

suck up doesn't it seem like Nataly and Shah are the same person just different gender versions? other than Shah is funny and wry about it Ummm... Care to elaborate on that?? "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss