steve1

I like Aggie Dave's answer the best. Your poll is too restricted. I don't think any of us have an ultimate reason in mind when we go out hunting. Some might, but I feel I hunt for a variety of reasons. Dave about covered all of them....Steve1

I won't disagree with you here. Hunting is great fun. A few years ago my family and I drove to Alaska on a do-it yourself hunt. I harvested a nice caribou bull above the Artic Circle with my bow. My wife and kids even helped me follow up on the blood trail to where it went down. We packed it back to camp and canned all the meat into jars for the trip home. We saw grizzly, Dall sheep, moose, and plenty of other neat critters. The North side of the Brooks Range is an awesome sight. That hunt was one of the high points of my life and I'm not a bit ashamed to say it was fun. One of the best parts was that my family was there to share it with me. I do disagree when you say that hunters are not driven by the will to keep Mother Nature in balance. I don't think anyone is more concerned about Nature than a hunter is. If nature and wildlife are destroyed, that means no more hunting. As I mentioned earlier, millions (if not billions) of dollars are collected each year through hunting licenses and even gun sales. This money goes to finance wildlife refuges, Game departments, and proper wildlife management. The reason we have animals to hunt today is because hunters care. If you wanted to do something to promote wildlife, you could buy a hunting license.....Steve1

>>I'm having a hard time staying out of this one. I know some people don't like to hunt and that's fine with me. It's not for everyone and I respect their right to think as they do. But AMax several of your statements just don't add up. Maybe buying meat is more humane in your mind, but it certainly isn't in mine. Most of the people I know here in Montana raise beef. Ever been there at branding time. I don't imagine it would be much fun to be a calf. Being separated from your Mama then roped and dragged next to a fire where somebody puts a hot iron to you. Then if you are a bull calf someone cuts open your nut sack and pulls out your family jewels till the cords break. Having your horns burned off and being pumped full of growth hormones, doesn't look like much fun either. And then one day when you are fat enough someone takes you to the slaughter house where the smell of death is everywhere. Some butchered animal have their throat cut (depending on the species and butcher shop) and then they are hung up to bleed while still alive. Sure some of them are shot. Some of them have an electrical gun that blasts them in the forehead. I suppose that's better than having someone hit you between the eyes with a sledge hammer, as it was once done in the old days. Shooting an animal in the head doesn't always work well either. A friend of mine was a butcher. He used to use a 22 to dispatch his victims. One day he was a little off, or maybe the skull was a little too thick, and the steer went through three fences before they could finish it off. This happens to a lot of pigs when they are butchered. It might take multiple shots. Then there is veal. Ever buy that stuff? A calf is kept in a very small pen after being taken away from Mama at birth. It is nearly force fed for a month or two then butchered when it is still a baby. And then their are commercial chicken houses, where litterally thousands of chickens are crammed together and forced fed. My Dad used to butcher chickens in a slaughter house. They used to cut their throats and then hang them up to bleed. So don't tell me butcher shops are humane. I know better. The thought of butcher shops make me sick. Most folks don't have a clue where meat really comes from. They go to the store and it comes in a neatly wrapped package. I was eating dinner one night with a gal who hated hunting. She tried to tell me it just isn't right or humane to go out hunting. I think the term was that it wasn't natural. Guess what she was stuffing her face with? You guessed it....VEAL! Now, on the contrary wild game lives a life free like they were meant to be. Most game has extremely keen hearing and smell. From birth they are often taught to evade man. I know some hunters that hunt, all fall, without killing anything, because it's not always easy. My family seldom eats store bought meat. I raised my daughters on venison. We hunt together and butcher it ourselves. When they got their first taste of beef hamburger they didn't like it. It was too fat. The reason you lost a number of wounded animals is because you were taking shots you weren't sure of. I know there's a lot of hunters who do that. Most of them shouldn't be hunting in my mind. Yes, wounding shots do happen even to the best hunters. No self respecting hunter feels good about that. I make every effort to see that it doesn't happen when I pull the trigger or release an arrow. I don't shoot unless I'm sure, because I don't want to cause needless suffering. Sure there may be some suffering invoved. I mean a game animal is being shot with a bullet or arrow. I don't imagine that would tickle much. But I'll bet the suffering involved would be far less than if an animal that starves to death, or if an animal is chewed to death by predators. You claim to know a lot about wolves. Ever seen an animal chewed to death by a pack of predators. Most of us never have or ever will, unless we watch the animal channel on TV. Most of these photographers edit out the really bloody parts. Not always though. My daughter used to start crying at times watching this because not only are my daughters hunters, they also love animals. I know this one is hard for a non-hunter to understand. Most predators, when they get an animal down, will literally start eating it before it is even dead. In the far north it isn't unusual to see a live moose with part of it's hind quarter eaten off, by wolves. This doesn't sound too humane to me. But maybe that is because that is what nature is all about....Animals don't live happily ever after.....If they don't die from starvation or disease, it may be a predator chewing them to death. Man is a predator too. Hunting is something man has done for thousands of years. I don't think Man has lost the need to hunt. Sure most of us can afford to buy meat from the butcher now. But there is more to it than that. Hunting is something that has been bred into human beings. In the old days, if you weren't a good hunter, you died. Those who were good at it survived. In my mind there is nothing more natural and rewarding than going out into nature and pitting your skills against another animal. Oh sure, it can get real easy. I mean this is the day of high powered rifles....If it seems too easy, try bow hunting. That is much more difficult than rifle hunting. If a compound bow is too easy try a recurve. Hunters not only hunt for meat, but also because it is very challenging. Killing is only part of the hunting experience. If I had to work In a butcher shop, I'd hate every minute of it. And as far as your last argument.....That there is no proof that hunters can be used to control animal populations....That hunters are only saying this to rationalize hunting........I wonder how you could be so naive to think this. Every state has a fish & wildlife division. Many of those workers are wildlife biologists. There sole purpose is to manage fish and wildlife populations. If hunters take too much...some wildlife species could even become extinct. This is another fact...Since hunting has become a regulated sport, no game animal has been placed on the endangered list in the United States. Many game populations before the turn of the century were very much on the verge of extinction. Now those numbers are flourishing in most areas...because of sound management. Also this management is being paid for by Sportsmans dollars through the sales of licenses. Another serious problem is the overpopulation of some game species. Most game animals are prolific breeders. Whitetail deer often have twin fawns. Most deer (does) have fawns every year. It doesn't take long before there are too many of them. They very often overpopulate their winter range. Many will eventually die from starvation, or disease. So, it boils down to how to bring their numbers down. Hunters do this very effectively. Call any fish and game office if you don't believe this. Or we could use another form of predator, namely wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, etc. This idea doesn't always work perfectly though. When there gets to be too many predators there isn't many game animals left and the predators will start dieing off from starvation and disease until their prey starts coming back. This results in a yo-yo effect in the number of predators and games species. Game departments regulate the number of animals that can be legally taken by hunters. This does not cause wildly oscillating game numbers. Actually this is very simple. If you are a rancher, are you going to let your herd get so big you can't feed them? And then there is the argument that predators only kill the weakest critters. Usually this is true, but don't forget this includes a large abundance of new borns. In some places bears have been know to kill most of the newborn fawn, elk, and moose in an area. Some say we need predators to keep the gene pool strong. After all they do kill the weakest and stupidest animals first. I agee with some of this thinking. I also like to just see predators out there in the wild. They have a right to survive too. But, I don't think they are they only means to control wildlife numbers. Man is another predator that deserves the right to hunt also.....Steve1

Oh, that's a funny one Airtwardo. I'll have to remember that one. That reminds me of a good joke.....There was once a guy who went into a bar for a drink. It took his eyes a while to adjust to the dim lights. Then he noticed this guy at the bar sitting next to him who had a head about the size of a softball. He couldn't help but stare at this strange sight. The guy with the tiny head noticed the guy staring at him and said, "I know you're wondering what in the world happened to my head, aren't you?" Well it's a long story. For years I saved my money, and then one day I bought this big sail boat, quit my job, and went sailing far out into the ocean. Things were going great until one day, I was caught in this big storm and was ship wrecked on a desert island. One day I was walking along the beach hoping to be rescued when I spotted this bottle on the beach. There was some dust on it so I rubbed some of it off and suddenly out of the bottle appeared this beautiful genie. The genie said, "I have three magic wishes for you Master." Well I couldn't believe my good fortune! For my first wish I asked for a new sail boat, and "shazam" there was a new sail boat. Then I asked for a million dollars and "shazam" there was a million dollars. About then I started noticing what a good looking babe this genie was. So I asked her, "Genie, how about a little head." And "Shazam" you know the rest of the story!.....Steve1

What I wouldn't give for a full head of hair like that again! (Picture #2) I'm kind of follickly challenged now....(Anyone know how to spell follickly? I couldn't find it in my dictionary) Another definition might be balder than a cucumber.....Steve1

The hooks on the old pack opening bands (or bungies) were a definite hazard. I used to use a pair of pliers to tighten the hooks slightly, so they hopefully wouldn't come unhooked and snag something else on opening. Another hazard on exit, with the old b-12 containers, was hitting the top of the door and bending the stiffener which held your rip cord housing to the container. This could result in a really hard pull. Getting back to the old pack opening bands. I had a friend who, when he traveled, used to hook one of these (on his belly reserve) over his rip cord handle. When he got to where he was going to jump he'd remember to fasten it up right. He didn't want to accidently snag his handle on anything in his trunk. One day he forgot to hook it up right. That was the day he cut away and died. The bungie was over the top of his reserve handle, and he couldn't pull his reserve. There's been five fatalities in Montana that I know of. Three burned in using the old gear and two died from turns too close to the ground on modern gear. There may be others. I was out of the sport for about 25 years.....Steve1

I'm pretty sure the Tension Free CRW team was from that neck of the woods. Feisty, Daryl, Bob ...those guys? Although I'm not sure they were farmers. Russ I'll bet that's them. I've asked other people, and they thought they were into CRW also. They may not be farmers. Most everyone from the Glendive area is though. One of them now works as a tandem master in another state. Thanks for the info....Steve1

In Glendive Montana (about 12 years ago) there was a group of farmers who jumped together. I think they became National champions in either 4-way or crew. I wasn't an active jumper then and can't recall many details. I live close to Glendive, and it has my curiosity cooking. They may have even been world champions. I remember driving by Glendive back then and they had a huge sign along the road congratulating these guys. Anyone know any details?.....Steve1

Airtwardo, We had a girl in our club who was nick-named "Total". She was really weak and wasn't strong enough to pull her ripcord on her four pin B-12 container. Twice she openned her belly, 24 ft. reserve, going terminal. She started lifting weights and got an easier rig to open, but she didn't quit. She was made of tougher stuff than I was....Steve1

Now, that is a nice set of wings! No one dared go that big in 75. But 78....that was a whole different ball game.....Steve1

Things were changing quickly during this time period. I never packed a Jerry Bird reserve, but I did pack a couple pop tops....They were a real pain to get closed up right (if I remember correctly). I never owned a bunny helmet. It seemed like some of the better jumpers were going to them. I stuck with my good ole motorcycle helmet.....Steve1

We may not have been trained properly. Covering your cape-wells makes sense, but noone ever told us that at my drop zone. I only had two malfunctions back then. Both times I was pretty unstable. I had my feet and knees together in an inverted position, and then pulled the loops on my capewells. I had my elbows in tight to my side when I pulled my reserve (similiar to a military inverted paratrooper position). Both times, I went over on my side when my reserve strung out. Both times the reserve openned okay, but again my body position was far from ideal.....The new gear is sure a whole lot better!....Steve1

Here's a couple pictures showing the jump gear and suits worn in the mid 70's.....Steve1

I don't know Djan or Skratch very well. I made some jumps with them last summer. They both seem like super people, and I have great respect for both of them. I know Skratch is one of the pioneers of our sport and he posts on here regularly. It must be really disheartening to read this stuff. There must be a better way to bring a complaint against someone, than slinging mud on the internet. So, If you read this Skratch...you know whose side I'm on!....Steve1

I quit in the mid 70's, but even then jump suits were getting baggier and baggier. Most everyone I knew during that time frame had bells on both arms and legs. Grippers weren't invented yet, so most people would grab a handful of material when they took grips....Steve1

I had to drive down to the restauraunt, at the lake, to use their pay phone. Sometimes it involved waiting a while to use it. It was a popular place. I don't think there is any pay phone at Lost Prairie itself.....Steve1

Why am I picturing a guy with like 2 dozen Dytters plastered all over the outside of his helmet. Now all I need to do is remember to turn them all on......Steve1

That reminds me, I need to order another dytter tomorrow from Square 1. I'm thinking if I have a few more dytter's maybe I won't have another cypress fire like I did last summer at Lost Prairie....Steve1

Good point Dave. Some legislators don't have much of anything better to do than pass new legislation and practice their public speaking. I wish some of them would put a sock in it. I talked to some cops lately who really like it when fellons wear the baggy low rider jeans. They are much easier to chase down and cuff that way. But getting back to the original post....so what if someone dresses different. It should be their right. If I had to dress up in a suit every day and look like a politician, I think I'd rebell. If someone comes for my rodeo buckle they're going to have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. I've only won one of them, and I don't plan on parting with it!....Steve1

I have noticed a big drop in the price of the pro-dytter. For $119. you couldn't go wrong. I think I'll go that route. Thanks for helping me decide....Steve1

I've been thinking about buying another dytter to put in my Z-1. I have a skytronic dytter, but somehow it is getting turned off at times. I think my big ears may be doing this when I put my helmet on. So, I'd like to maybe get another dytter for back up. I'm not too familiar with this style of audible, but the price looks good. (I'm a cheap- skate at heart.) So my questions are....how reliable is this dytter? And will it fit into an old style Z-1. Remember now, I have a fat head and big ears...also how much do they sell for new? Thanks for the advice..... Steve1

This story isn't a scary one but it kind of ties into some of the stuff Airtwardo mentioned in his story. It's amazing the comradery and bond that develops between skydivers. It must have something to do with the danger that is shared or something else too abstract for me to figure out. Last Christmas I went skiing with my family at a distant ski run which I had never been to before (Discovery Basin). There isn't any jumping going on in Montana that time of year so I figured I might as well do the next best thing and ski. We got to the run early. My daughters wanted to sleep a while in the truck before hitting the slopes. I figured the heck with that, and decided to get a few runs in on my new fangled shaped skiis. It was a beautiful morning. The sun was shining and you could see for miles riding up on the lift. And then I heard this boisterous laugh from someone above me on the lift. There was something familiar about that. Then there was that laugh again. Somebody was definitely enjoying themselves. When we got to the top of the mountain I skiied over to this guy to get a better look. He turned his helmeted head and there was Andy, the guy who put me out on my first freefall, almost 35 years earlier. With a big smile he stuck out his big paw to give a shake. Then he said, you remember Karna don't you. I turned the other way and there was Karna Sunby. The only person in our club who jumped a Thunderbow. I'll be darned. She used to be a stewardess when the rest of us were college bums. I hadn't seen her in about 25 years. She had a little gray in her hair, but she was still a good looker. I explained to Andy that I didn't know any of the runs, so he said, "come ski with us, and I'll show you the hill." So for several hours that morning we were kids again having fun. Whenever someone wiped out we'd wait for them while they got up. When not flying down the hill we told old stories, and asked about other old jumpers and skydives made long ago. And we did take a lot of breaks. None of us were marathon athletes any more. Then we came to this yellow tape. One of the better runs was closed off. Andy said we really need to ski this. Karna said, "I don't know?", and she had since enough not to come with us. So there Andy and I went....Racing down through untracked powder, almost waist deep in places. A couple of old dogs trying to show the world we could still do it, and then sneaking back in the lift line before anyone could holler at us. On the ride up, there was Andy's loud laugh, and that big hand to shake. "By God we did it!" and then another laugh....Just like the old days after a successful jump. Andy went on to explain there were a couple of other old jumpers coming up Guazzo and Max (who we jumped with in the 70's). They were all staying down at Andy's cabin on a lake. Come on down he said, "I've got lot's of room." I felt bad to explain I had other commitments. We weren't the only skiiers that were skiing together that morning. Karna had her nephew. Andy's son was skiing with Russ Berree's boy. (Russ is another old jumper from the past.) My daughters were undoubtedly on the mountain someplace by then, enjoying their snow boards. It was good to know there was another generation coming up, who were a lot like us. Someday they'd take our place, (even if they didn't jump like some of their crazy relatives did.) It was kind of hard to say goodbye. Maybe this was the last time some of us old farts would meet up again. Whenever I looked at Andy I couldn't help but think he looked a lot like my old Grandpa. He probably felt the same about me. So if you know an old jumper you haven't seen in a while, get in touch with them. You probably miss each other more than you think.....Steve1 I

No, Rob jumps mostly in the Bozeman area. He's a great guy. He used to jump at Stevensville all the time, but he moved to Bozeman quite a while ago. He doesn't jump as much now as he once did. I saw him last summer jumping out of Greg Nardi's King Air, so I know he still jumps...Steve1

I agree, women should wear tight short shorts!

They moved the D.Z. from Missoula to Stevensville about 20 years ago. That's about 30 miles south of Missoula. Hod brings his airplane up to the Ronan airport every other weekend during the summer. Look us up. We'd enjoy jumping with you....Steve1