steve1

Andy Mcfarland was new jumper back in 1970. He too wanted to go to this great Mecca of skydiving (Elsinore). He traveled, with his parents, through California and they stopped at Elsinore. Back in 1970 skydiving was a wilder, crazier, and more dangerous sport than it is now. Andy's parents had never seen him jump before. Andy had his gear along, and he manifested for a load. It was a beautiful day, and they all sat down to watch a load overhead. The chutes openned, but this one guy kept falling and falling, and he bounced. Most everyone on the next load cancelled out. But not Andy. He went up, and had a good jump. I don't think his parents were too keen on the sport after that.... Did I mention that Andy put me out on my first freefall....

It's a shame guns are getting so darn high priced. I was wondering what the reason for that is. Is it because of liability issues? When I was a kid you could buy a Remington BDL rifle for $135. I saved my money and bought two of these when I was a teenager. Now you might pay around $900. for a similiar rifle. I know I am an old fart, but I don't think inflation explains all of that price increase. And the price of ammo is getting ridiculous. I know people are hoarding the stuff. Supply and demand enters into this. Is that the only reason it is getting so spendy....

I work as a licensed therapist in a junior high. I've been a farm worker, timber faller, plumber's apprentice, teacher, construction worker, and fire fighter. I think in law enforcement, they call people like that jugglers...

Congratulations Dave! Your life will never be the same. And I mean that in a good way...

When I started jumping in the early 70's, Elsinore was the happening place. Nearly all jumpers wanted to jump there some day. It was thirty years before I was finally able to make a pilgrimage to that place. This DZ was one of the stomping grounds of the great Jerry Bird. I'm glad it's still a great place to jump!

Don't forget Tom T-Bow in Kalispell. And then there is Karna T-bow Sunby. I think she is in Seattle....I wonder if they are all related???

That's a funny story! There's some scary shooters out there....

We did this a couple years back with pumpkins. We'd pass one as many times possible. The last one with the pumpkin had to try to open and land with it. On our first jump I was the last one with the pumpkin. I wasn't sure what to do next, so I just gave it a toss and openned. This was out in the wide open spaces of North Dakota. Luckily no cars, buildings, or people were bombed by these pumpkins....

Although I had previously met a guy who setup a little range in his 3-car garage in the middle of a Dallas suburb about 15 years ago. He had a suppressor on his .22 and he would plink his evenings away shooting into old phone books. Not that someone *should* do that, though. .................................................................... I did that a while back. On cold Montana days it's important to keep yourself intertained. I have a long metal shop. I welded up a bullet trap out of heavy metal. I then got out my 22 rifles and pistols. We live in town, but noone complained. All the lead and powder fumes were starting to get to me, so I quit.....Maybe there is a good reason for a silencer. In the army we were told you could use a potato for a one shot silencer. I wonder if there is any truth to that....

I had a 22 high standard for years. It was a great automatic. It had a super trigger, and was deadly accurate. I've even shot the heads off grouse with it. I always wanted a revolver and finally settled on a taurus 22 in stainless. The price was right. I have absolutely no complaints. It has adjustable sights and has a good trigger. It shoots great. I bought my daughter a taurus ultra light revolver in 38 special. It had fixed sights and a short barrel. It won't group worth a darn. The sights are off too. I think she'll trade it off on a better gun. I was just wondering why anyone would want a silencer. They would work great if you were a hit man, but what other use would there be?....

Seriously though, I wish I could write poetry. An old rodeo buddy of mine makes his living writing poems. He's considered the best free verse cowboy poet in the world. I remember when we were both rodeo bums trying to raise enough cash for our next rodeo... It's kind of cool to read his poems about times and places that we both shared. I wish I was creative enough to be a poet.

Great poems, Pat! I wish I knew more about writing that stuff.... Some people say that I'm a poet and I didn't know it....

"Beautiful Streamer" (to the tune of Beautiful Dreamer) Beautiful streamer, why should you be? Blue skies above and no canopy. Billowing white silk is what I should see. Beautiful streamer, please open for me. Beautiful streamer at least fill in part, Even a Mae West would give me a start. Plummeting earthward, falling too fast- I have the feeling my future just passed. Beautiful streamer, please hear my song. I have already counted too long, Wouldn't have counted nearly so high 'Cept that my ripcord is caught in my fly. Beautiful streamer, please help me rip her. Don"t let me die just because of a zipper. Jumpmaster should've told me when trying to seat us, He must have noticed me bent like a fetus. Beautiful streamer, I'd like to mention Shouldn't a soldier die at attention? No use of hoping, now it's too late But this is no posture for St. Peter's gate. "Oh, How I hate to Jump Out of An Airplane" (to the tune of I hate to get up in the morning) Oh, how I hate to jump out of an airplane! Oh, how I'd love to remain on the ground! For the hardest thing I know Is to hear that man yell "Go" You gotta jump out; you gotta jump out: You gotta jump out of the airplane. Someday I'm going to murder the jumpmaster, Someday they're gonna find him dead; And then I'll get the other pup, The guy that takes the airplane up, And spend the rest of my life in bed.

reply] I live not too far from the Big Bend region and have heard many similar tales as you posted. It's getting scarey. Especially with the increased drug traffic through the area. With all this in mind, I'm glad to see the change in the laws pertaining to the carrying of firearms in the Big Bend park and other parks. Chuck I know of a guy who was packing with horses and mules in a National Park. He had two mules roll down a very steep hillside. Both had broken legs and internal injuries. Guns were outlawed then in National Parks, so he had no choice but to cut there throats with a knife. He said it was awful to have two of his favorite pack animals looking back at him as they bled to death. He said after that he always carried a gun in the back country. He didn't care what the law said. My dad said he never wanted to have to put one of his horses to death with a rock or knife. He always had an old 30/30 in his saddle boot. One time he had his camp raided by a grizzly when he was out fishing. There's plenty of uses for a gun other than shooting two legged varmits.....

BLOOD ON THE RISERS (chorus) Gory, Gory, what a helluva way to die, Gory, Gory, what a helluva way to die, He ain't gonna jump no more! He was just a rookie trooper and he surely shook with fright. He checked all his equipment and made sure his pack was tight: He had to sit and listen to those awful engines roar, "You ain't gonna jump no more! (chorus) "Is everybody happy?" cried the sergeant looking up. Our hero feebly answered "yes' and then they stood him up; He jumped into the icy blast, his static line unhooked, And he ain't gonna jump no more. (chorus) He counted long, he counted loud, he waited for the shock, He felt the wind, he felt the cold, he felt the awful drop, The silk from his reserve spilled out and wrapped around his legs, And he ain't gonna jump no more, (chorus) The risers swun around his neck, connectors cracked his dome, Suspension lines were tied in knots around his skinny bones: The canopy became his shroud; he hurtled to the ground. And he ain't gonna jump no more. (chorus) The ambulance was on the spot, the jeeps were running wild, The medics jumped and screamed with glee, rolled up their sleeves and smiled, For it had been a week or more since last a chute had failed, And he ain't gonna jump no more (chorus) He hit the ground, the sound was "splat" his blood went spurting high, His comrades then were heard to say: "A helluva way to die!" He lay there rolling round in the welter of his gore, And he ain't gonna jump no more. (chorus) There was blood upon the risers, there were brains upon the chute, Intestines were a'dangling from his Paratrooper suit, He was a mess; they picked him up, and poured him from his boots, And he ain't gonna jump no more. (chorus)

This is one cadence that was called (on runs) when I was in Infantry training at Ft. Polk in 1970..... I want to be an Airborne Ranger I want to live a life of danger I want to go to Vietnam Just to kill old Charlie Cong Up the hill....."Up the Hill" Down the hill....."Down the Hill" gonna be......"Gonna Be" Airborne......"Airborne" Ranger......"Ranger" Won't quit......"Won't Quit" Can't quit......"Can't Quit" Driving on......."Driving On" I guess this needs a drill sargent or black hat calling it, with a company of men replying, to make sense. My memory is about shot, but I still remember this cadence well!

After reading Airtwardo's great thread, I got to thinking. Does anyone remember any old Airborne songs or poems? A lot of old skydivers were also Airborne troopers at one time. I remember singing some of these on runs in the Army. Many of them were morbid, but that's what made them interesting....

I haven't read all the replies to this. I'd like to see a picture of this weapon. I'm just wondering why this weapon would be so good. A shotgun is close range weapon, where you are not going to need 300 rounds of ammo to end a conflict. A shotgun with a simple magazine extension, should be enough ammo. Can you imagine how unhandy this weapon might be because of the extra weight. A lighter weapon might be more deadly. You could get on target much more quickly, in a close range encounter. You could take your uncle fred's shotgun, buy a twenty inch barrel for it, and then put a magazine extension on it. Both of these adaptions are perfectly legal. With these simple changes you could have a weapon that would be just as deadly, if not more so..... I'd like to see someone fire one of these shotguns on full auto. After about your third shot, you'd be shooting skyward, and not on target. And think of the recoil. I don't think even G.I. Joe could handle that. Just because the military has a new weapon, doesn't mean it's better than what many citizens already have for home defense....

One of them was killed a few years back. He did a low turn, into a parking lot, while doing a demo in Montana. He was taken to Seattle where he died a few days later....This was a truly sad story. The news papers jumped on this story. One headline said, "Elvis Breaks his Pelvis". Later the poor guy died.....

Most bullies want a smaller kid to fight back. That way they can knock the hell out of them. I really think that bullies need consequences, not just a slap on the wrist. Schools are often blamed for not doing much to someone who is a bully. In some cases that is the truth. In other cases it is hard to determine just who is causing the problem. A teacher looks up and sees two kids arguing, or two kids pushing each other. It's hard to determine who should be punished. I'm not an administrator, but I think if a kid has a long history of bullying, he shouldn't get a 2nd chance. Booting him out of school for a while, might be the right thing to do.... Tough kids do understand consequences.... And this is a complex problem. There are no easy quick fixes to this....

I think the craziest target I ever saw was running Negro target. I'm not sure if the Klan was using that range or what..... I wonder if they make running "honky" targets?

................................................. I guess it all boils down to the type of hunting a person does. I don't take a lot of long shots. Mainly because I don't want to risk wounding an animal. But I like knowing I can make a long shot if I need to. I remember once when an antelope was getting away with a broken leg. Another hunter had wounded it. I wanted to put it out of it's misery. I used my duplex reticle to size it up and figure the range. It was a good 500 yards away. I took careful aim from a prone position, and killed it with one shot. I was glad I had an accurate rifle, and could make that shot. I was glad I had spent hours and hours fine tuning that gun and working up the right reload, plus spending all that time practicing shooting. Another time a friend of mine broke the front leg on an antelope. It was an easy shot, and he blew it. He then missed several more shots at it, until it was out of his effective range. His rifle wasn't very accurate, and he didn't practice enough. As a result he lost that antelope. Worst of all, it probably had a slow miserable death. Most of the time I don't need a super accurate rifle. But once in a while, they sure are worth having....

John, I think your answer best answered the question pertaining to bullet spin. I've never shot at a 1,000 yards but I have shot a fair amount at longer ranges. To tell you the truth I haven't been able to see any variation due to bullet spin. I sight in at a hundred yards. I haven't seen any variation out to 500 yards (left or right). I was just wondering if bullet spin might be more visable at twice that far. I glass bed the action of my rifles. Free float most barrels. Some I put a shim under the fore end of the barrel. I adjust the triggers carefully. Mount quality scopes. And use the best bench rest techniques that I can muster. With all that you can match the best hand loads to your rifle. I also keep detailed notes. There is just too much to remember. There are many tricks to accuracy. I'm not a fanatic like some shooters, but little things can make a big difference. After all that you can go to the range and test things out. It's surprising how inaccurate some rifles are. This inaccuracy really shows up at longer ranges. Some of my rifles will group close to a 1/2 inch at a hundred yards, with five shot groups. Many rifles (off the shelf) will group closer to three inches at a hundred yards with factory ammo. Maybe that isn't much difference, but at long range that is a big difference. An inaccurate rifle can be almost worthless for a longer shot. Many people think they have a hunting rifle that will drive tacks. After testing them out, they may not be pleased. But just when I think I know it all, something new comes along. That's why I like asking questions from people on here, who know more than I do.....

So this has me wondering. I imagine the rate of twist (of your barrel) would make a difference. But let's say you have an average rifle barrel with a right hand twist. How far will your bullet hit to the right, at say 600 yards on a calm day. Does anyone have a guesstimate? I've shot groups at 500 yards with little or no wind. That was with a 270 and 300 win. mag. I've noticed a large increase in group size, but I didn't notice a drift to the left or right. So, I'm thinking this drift may not be too much. I was also thinking of adding a set of target turrets to one of my Leupold scopes. I wish I had some stadia dots or lines on my crosshairs. They could sure help.... I'm not a big fan of long shots on big game. It's just too easy to wound something. But target practice at extreme ranges, would make closer shots easy.

Phew! There's a lot of variables aren't there.... You have to admire anyone who can make those long shots consistently....There's a lot of thinking, practice, and just plain skill with a precision weapon and match ammo....