n23x

I am reading this crap (both sides), it just doesn't make a lick of sense to me, Marc. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Flat out, I have zero problem with anybody's religious beliefs. Whether or not they believe I'm going to burn in hell, or that I'm an infidel, or whatever, I could honestly not care less. More specifically, I am excited for people who feel a 'spiritual connection' of some sort, without organized religion, but that's not the point, and my religious views are neither here nor there. However, when one group feels the need to indoctrinate me with their 'ideals', or govern the way I live with it, that is a different matter. And why are specific ideals the problem? Because not everybody has the same ones. And that's ok! My life, my employment, and some of the things that make me the most happy revolve around the sciences: things that are testable, repeatable, and provide a model of what to expect. The things I have seen taught in sex ed/health classes are all facts. Not morals. That's not really what public education needs to be there for. Just facts. Fact: a condom is a barrier between sperm and an egg. Fact: if you put a condom on correctly, you drastically reduce the likelihood of failure of that barrier. Fact: Gravity will not keep your girlfriend from getting pregnant if you do it standing up. I guess I still don't understand where you concern with morals comes into play here. Could you provide examples of a few you'd like health courses to either do or not do? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Maybe we could better understand you if you'd elaborate on the "moral context of the facts" above? (Here's a polite suggestion too. Write our your thoughts. Leave it for 5 minutes. Come back, re-read/edit for clarity, and leave us a good post that we can read, understand, and then refute if we disagree) edited to add: and then I'll make an attempt to not be snarky all the time, because fuck, am I tired of writing the same shit over and over again. "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Are you really going to ask that question? Please leave your hats, coats, and logic at the door .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Alright, Marc. Hold my hand, since I obviously need to walk you through this. You said, I said you wanted absolute control. Why would I say this? A reasonable level of control (in this case a substantial amount) would be a school giving students a permission slip to bring home for their parents to sign if they don't want their kids taking a health class. You, on the other hand, pissed and moaned that some kids might not bring home the permission slip, and the default was to educate them. You want 100% control of that situation, e.g. absolute control. I would consider early teens to be young adults, but we can call them "kids" too. We have to think about this in absolute terms, not relative, Marc. Young adults aren't 37. My mention of the rhythm method does have something to do with this. It has to do with the dissemination of ineffective (or even incorrect) methods of birth control and the, "you'll be alright if you do this," BS you hear in the locker rooms all the time. I was literally AMAZED at the lack of knowledge these guys (and girl) displayed. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

That I know that have a bazillion kids? 4 that I can recall off the top of my head. How do I know they were a result of the unsuccessful use of the rhythem method? Because most of the kids were unplanned "gifts from god". Because the parents specifically discourage the use of condoms and other contraceptive measures. Because they push the rhythm method as being the "sinless" form of family control. Worse was listening to their adult offspring spout off the reliability of such a method. Don't forget, wasting sperm that isn't going to make a baby is against god's wishes. But boning when the woman "can't become pregnant" is ok too, somehow. Is it ok that they parrot what has been preached to them? Sure. Do they have a much higher chance of firing out kids because they have a poor understanding of how human reproduction works (i.e sperm lifetime, modes of pregnancy, etc)? Hell yes. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

No, you seem to want absolute control over what is taught to your kids. Not some. Not only that, but you think the default should be to keep young adults from being educated with regard to their bodies and health considerations that will certainly affect them at some point in their life. On a side note, how many people know cath... er, just families with like 10 kids? Is that a sign that the rhythm method works? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

I'm not. The when is in the now, man.

So do you propose punishing parents that cannot provide their children with a certain level of support or education in the home? What about parents whose kids become pregnant at a young age? How would you make parents responsible? That's great for you. BUT, Of the 6 highschools local to where I live, 3 have more students than my university, undergrad and grad combined. Your sons' school does NOT represent the average public school. Do you think that your sons' school and those highschools have a similar teacher/student ratio? What about annual budget per student? What about administration to handle a simple call to each student's family? Well, when I'm right, I'm right. Isn't that right? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

A couple of questions and a couple of comments: 1.) Did your boys go to Sex Ed or health class in their school BECAUSE they didn't bring in a permission slip to you, and by default attended the class? 2.) If YES to 1, doesn't that make your boys the irresponsible ones rather than the school? *Now comments time* All of the people that think "getting the parent's consent isn't that hard", apparently haven't really been involved with their public schools. The sheer quantity of students crammed into schools these days, combined with irresponsible or over-worked parents that WON'T answer or return calls, makes this impossible. The resources of public schools are typically strung out so thin that the above concept is just ridiculous. All that, combined with parents that don't give a fuck, or are working 3 jobs, or just can't find the time, produces a NEED to educate these young people with regard to what can happen if/when they have sex. Not in moral terms. Not how to start off with the chinese swing into acrobatic sex. Not to go for the ass the first night (only sometimes ok). Just the facts, Marc. If you want to be pissed at your kids because they weren't responsible enough to bring home a permission slip, so be it. But to expect unavailable resources to be used to guarantee parents the option to keep their kids from receiving basic health education is a little over the top. If responsible parents comprised 100% of all parents, I might agree with you. They don't. Be proud that you're a good parent, and are involved with your kids. But don't punish a young person who WON'T receive the kind of love and education you provide your kids. It's a social issue, that's all. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

You were allowed. Didn't you say that your kid was given a permission slip that didn't make its way into your hands? Sounds like a lack of responsibility on the child's side, not the schools. You haven't been able to present a reasonable argument with regard to what that is. If you can't do that, how can you assess whether or not you're really looking at it "correctly". .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Yes, it's EXACTLY what we're talking about. Sex is when a male sticks his penis in a female's vagina. That's what Sex Ed is! Do you (religiously) dissapprove of condoms or other contraceptives? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

It's not a morality issue nor is it anti-religion. It's FACT. Not conjecture or unsubstantiated, unreliable BS (read rythm method). It doesn't promote sex, it says to abstain; but if you WON'T abstain, protect yourself. The school can't and doesn't MAKE your kid have sex, it doesn't even put the thought into your kid's head. It DOES say that placing a barrier (condom) between a penis and a vagina highly reduces the likelihood of pregnancy and STD's. It is NOT an issue of morality, nor is it anti-religious. JAKEE posted a very legitimate question, which I'm assuming you won't answer since he isn't 'MERICAN', so I'll pose it: Do you think science biology classes should contain reproductive curriculum? Should boys and girls know that sperm and an egg form a baby? Should they know that mammals mate differently from fish? Or is this all they should know? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

- --- ----- - - - - - - Drunk and right! .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

EXACTLY! The problem is that there are way too many young people (they aren't JUST children) who don't get this education until they are in an irreversable, life-altering situation. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Seems pretty subjective, doesn't it? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA How old are your kids? What have YOU told them about sex? Are you just pissed because some relative went out and got knocked up at 15 because NOBODY explained anything to her since she "wasn't ready to have sex"? There is obviously some event that is driving this fury towards sex education. Care to share? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

First and foremost, let's clear this one up: Refusing to debate or consider someone's standing based off of their residence is pretty ridiculous. Then again, I think the same thing about texans, so to each their own. Where is creationism taught in schools? Further, is this in a majority of US schools, or a small subset? That's fine that you resent it, but it is a legitimate practice to be taught in schools. You speak about it as if they're talking about sex like, "and here's how you do the reverse cowgirl, which makes it easy to transition back to a 69". All I remember from it was rolling a condom on a banana and then looking at pictures of STDs forever. Sex Ed in health class doesn't promote sex, or immorality. It promotes an understanding of what can cause STD's and pregnancies. Condoms are probably the cheapest, most widespread, EFFECTIVE way to prevent pregnancy and some STD's. What's wrong with saying, "don't do it, but if you do, be safe"? On top of that, back when I had sex ed in health, parents could opt of out their students being involved. You're right. We have much more intermingling of the two than our forefathers ever intended. What is your interpretation of what they meant by "a complete separation of church and state"? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

What's the concern with the unconstitutional ruling? Intelligent design IS religion. Intelligent design IS creationism. A separation of religion and education is important and healthy. Parents can indoctrinate their children with their specific religious beliefs in their home, or place of worship. School is to learn. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

F that, do it in Colorado! .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Care to clarify? It is, literally, next to impossible to understand about 95% of your posts. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Education doesn't represent a support of immorality. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

what? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

Just one thing? What about a loony with a gun? or homemade bombs? or other weapons intended to kill human beings? edited to add: guns aren't made to kill just human beings. my bad. .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

who? .jim "Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC