JoeWeber

Yes. Filling in the pond and disallowing greater than 180° turns in the high performance area stopped the problem. It certainly made a number of folks unhappy but so does strongly enforcing no off DZ landings (even wingsuiters) and demanding that everyone on the load land in the same direction even if the first person down screws it up and other safety issues. I wouldn't say one was too many. After the Pro hooked it in short of the pond I tried to keep some level of perspective. The final straw was when someone did it right. That is he hooked it in such a way that he if he misjudged he would hit the water. The problem was he did not per the rules make it known he was going "pond side" so someone could watch for safety. He hit the water so hard he was knocked unconscious and were it not for an aware packer who sprinted down and pulled him out he would have drowned. After thinking about that for a while I realized there would be only one way to stop swooping injuries and fatalities and took appropriate action.

All in conformance with my earlier post. The stolen gear fatality happened in my year two, the suicide some months later. Those were 32 years ago. Were that the case every two years and I carried on you might have a point. In the case of swooping, I built that 60' X 200' by 4' deep pond to keep swoopers safe as they learned the skill not to be the attractive nuisance it became. When it became apparent that my support was causing more injuries not preventing them I changed course.

No, they are not and thank you for the questions. We had a suicide, not much you can do there unless the person is exhibiting self destructive behavior. We had a no canopy out fatality where the visiting jumper took a piece of gear from our gear room without permission when no one was looking, didn't turn on the AAD and met the turn aircraft while staff were helping a tandem land. We relocated things and added procedures to reduce the chance of that happening again. We had a pro swooper who we brought in to help raise our swoopers skill level hit 3 feet short of the pond and kill himself. Another hit the water and nearly drowned. Several more were hurt bad, a few permanently. Filling on the pond and banning turns above 90° in the main landing area and above 180° in the "high performance" area several years ago seems to have ended those injuries and fatalities. They were definitely not worth it to me.

Aircraft, zero. Swoop, zero. Post skydive canopy issues, I know it’s possible. Suicides, they can happen.

Do you believe there is an under reporting of swooping injuries at most Dropzones, USPA or not?

For a bonus, do some research and tell us which major dropzone has these rules: Fly a predictable pattern with long straight legs. The base leg should begin approximately at the triangle heading West towards the runway. No greater than 90 degree turns are allowed below 1500 feet/450 meters

Door #2, it seems to me. USPA is great for keeping the government at bay. Chuck opined on the entertainment value of CP. To ask him to what end, is it singing to the choir or expanding the sport seems fair to ask given his position and support. As far as banning it goes I know of no one suggesting USPA do so; that's for each independent business to decide.

I spent a lot of time writing this speech but (sound of blank sheet of paper crumpling) I've decided to speak from the heart.

This statement runs counter to what else you post just below it. "CP is dangerous. Statistically it's more dangerous than other skydiving disciplines. Welcome to reality. All forms of skydiving are dangerous. I wholeheartedly support all of them." Literally, by your own words, you accept a certain attrition rate. Of course all of us, weekend skydivers and industry professionals alike, accept a certain attrition rate. When I say you aren't thinking seriously I am simply observing what seems to be a blind spot you have when adding in CP and Swooping. I've twice asked : "Can you show where it (Swooping) has grown the sport to such a degree that the fatalities and horrendous injuries are worth it?" Again and again you do not answer the question. If you support it at the level of the first time swooper, as President of USPA, you should have a ready answer. And the answer really isn't observing that spectators like to watch it at the level of competition. Those are different paradigms. Wing suiting has added participants as have wind tunnels. As President of USPA you should be able to provide data that clearly shows that swooping is bringing in skydivers. Please do so.

Humor is often the only substance here; my only regret is I couldn't like it twice.

Right, that's my point; and a hell of a lot more dangerous than the statistics show due to gross under reporting of injuries. At the level of International Competition it's all art and beauty, for sure. But that's not how it is at the start of the pipeline and that's reality.

Okay, it's a stupid question. And, yes, it is a personal opinion, I wanted Chucks opinion. I was an early supporter, built a big ass pond, and promoted the practice. My personal opinion was that it was a lot of fun. Then after enough carnage I decided it wasn't worth it. If to you that is being stupid I accept your judgement.

We've had plenty of engagement with swoopers. They aren't bad or evil or criminal or anything negative. Mostly they're just cool people doing what they consider fun at places that still allow it. Also, at the top levels it is nothing short of spectacular to watch. Like the rest of us did during our long skydiving careers, they tend to live in self validating bubbles and believe that what they do harms no one but themselves and that they should not be held back by rules designed to protect those with lesser skills. After all, it's an adult sport and adults die and yada, yada, yada. It's the square reserve argument, the AAD argument, the RSL argument, the landing in opposite directions argument, the wearing a camera at 50 jumps argument, the downsize your parachute or upsize your wing suit arguments and on and on and on. We've all pushed our limits and been bit along the way. I'm certainly no exception and I'll guess you aren't either. I'm looking for something different from Chuck. If it turns out to be an education I'll take it. After all, that's why we're here.

Probably. Are USPA Presidents allowed to reply to questions here?

Chuck, you might have been asked this before but: "Can you show where it (swooping) has grown the sport to such a degree that the fatalities and horrendous injuries are worth it?" As you might recall that was a part of this post:" Finally in that you don't like to answer questions. I'll ask again: "Can you show where it has grown the sport to such a degree that the fatalities and horrendous injuries are worth it?" You are an announced proponent of CP which, those of us on the sharp end of the stick call swooping. Also, you believe that USPA should promote it for the better good of all. Obviously, you must believe that the inelegant and sometimes bloody consequences of swooping at the introductory level where some of us live are worth it for what the sport gains. That, or you haven't actually thought about it seriously. So please answer the question. "Can you show where it (swooping) has grown the sport to such a degree that the fatalities and horrendous injuries are worth it?"

Back at the front, Biden secretly gave some of our short range ATACMS, the cluster bomb variety, to Ukraine who promptly used them against parked helicopters, ammo dumps, and runways. Apparently they can avoid Russian air defenses, and those are our 30+ year old refurbished units. Now lets surprise Putin again and give them a few of the long range bunker busting variety to take out the Kerch Bridge before winter.

Some of my posts here may have given the impression that I am sympathetic to Hamas. I am not. They are cruel and wrong, especially now. I am however sympathetic to what caused Hamas to be who they are today.

Hamas did for the Palestinians in Gaza what a government does: provide social services and security. I'm not surprised that a Hamas supporting Palestinian, not too unlike a Trump supporting Republican, has little bad to say.

Maybe the hospital that was hit in Gaza causing +/-200 casualties was a misguided Hamas rocket as Israel is now claiming. But for the sake of argument, and as we await what we will learn as the attacks on Gaza continue, can we all agree that attacks on civilians outside of world at war scenarios, where millions of lives are at stake and options are few, are war crimes?

So if I send a few shelter dogs to your home address you'll be cool with that?

He doesn't just agree he thinks it's a swell idea. Hey! I have a swell idea, too! Maybe instead of selling their petroleum products to the upper states Texas and Louisiana should share it with us for free because fair is fair. I still don't know what to do about Florida because I'm still looking for their border with Mexico and Venezuela. Besides, even if the Gulf of Mexico is now being taught in Florida as a border with Mexico (and who can doubt it) they really don't have anything we want except the lobsters and we already have Maine.

True, but that's a damn long way to go to find a decent arepa shop. Maybe we should just attack Venezuela and take it, and it's oil, for the greater good of the USA. Of course, we'd need to ignore that pesky Rio Treaty, again. You know, the one we ignored when we sided with the Brit's over the Falklands. Perhaps we should just start billing Mexico on a per capita basis for every immigrant who crosses our common border. But maybe they wouldn't pay for a pay wall. either. Or maybe, and this will go over in Mifflin County and the local union halls like a fresh turd in the punchbowl, we should just put them to work at whatever the market will pay and tax them until social security is again solvent and pays a whole lot better and medical care is free so no one needs a 401K when they get old or sick. Rio Treaty.pdf

My database doesn’t allow that kind of filter but I accept that it is true for many. Really most were silly and should have no ability to command our attention when the last US president is under 4 indictments and ready to commit treason to destroy our democracy. There is where you should be looking.

While you were counting did you bother to read any of those heinous crimes? For example, like that skyrocketing scofflaw AOC attending a protest? Probably not, but now that credulity is in fashion why bother?

Now it costs a $1000 to produce a drone that can take out that $100 Million airplane or $6 Million Tank etc. Once we get those oft promised robot soldiers anyone with a few bucks can be a war lord.