Nightingale

But assuming that everyone who posts a question out of curiosity is going to go out and do something dumb isn't a good approach either.

most of 'em.

hmm... another example... In the gear forum, I posted a question about jumping camera, strictly from a curiosity point of view. I said in my post that I have NO intention of strapping a camera to my head anytime in the future, the question was simply out of curiosity. I got quite a few emails saying "WTF are you thinking? You don't have high enough jump numbers to be thinking about jumping camera!!" They didn't read my post... I asked when someone should start thinking about it, and what level they should be at with their skills. I did not say I was going to go out and do it. I'm not, and said as much. I got jumped on anyway. If someone with a couple hundred jumps had posted that, the answer probably would have been different, even though the question would have been the same.

I'm guessing that link is NSFW?

so, CB... did YOU know what it was?? and if so, how'd you find out??

my FJC instructor used hard-deck to mean "decision altitude"

sure, that sometimes happens... did anyone try to explain to the newbie what happens when you downsize too quickly? About how canopies work with relation to wing loading, line length, responsiveness, etc...? or was he just told "you're not ready" and no more than that?

you can learn from other's errors, though. I'm just saying that if newbies' questions and comments are brushed off without good answers, just because they're newbies, they won't learn anything at all.

very true... but Ron asked about what I'd do in a karate school. I think I did say in that post that letting a newbie teach part of an FJC wouldn't work.

hmm.... now I suddenly feel embarrassed that I KNEW. Actually, I found out about it because it was one of those things that came in a bag that my roomie brought back to our dorm room after a visit to planned parenthood. We were inspecting the contents (her birth control pills, along with condoms, lube samples, and these other...thingies...) and I said "what the heck is that??" and she had to explain to me.

I know! That's why I was laughing so hard.

the kinda funny thing is, Ron... throughout this whole debate, I was never talking about "you" personally. Every time I used "you" it was in the hypothetical sense.

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. he's too cute!!!!!

DUDE! I just spewed red bull all over my monitor when I read that! ROFLMAO!!!!

Ok good, but what do you do if a Yellow belt starts trying to teach your White belts? if a yellow belt tries to teach one of my white belts, I'll let them as long as what they're saying and doing is correct. sometimes a more experienced newbie can say things that make sense to a less experienced newbie, because they've just been through it. Sometimes, someone who's just worked through an issue on their own is a better teacher than someone who's been doing it for fifteen years, because they remember what it was like to not get it. If the yellow belt was giving incorrect information, I'd intervene saying something like "Do you remember when we went over this technique? what did you learn about (insert relevant question)" and try to intervene without embarrassing the student, because if they're pissed off at me during class, they're less likely to learn what I have to teach them. Where you teach martial arts? I taught at a school in orange county. now, I teach private lessons only. I have several instructors, among them Michael Grilli (black under Larry Tatum/Darrin Phillips), John Newburg (Black under Bob White), and my primary instructor, David Brock (6th degree black belt under Bob White, who is a 9th degree) Do you have cool colored belts? yes Why? so the student has a way to track their own progress. Belt colors give them a way to set little goals along the way and have something to work towards. As I tell my students "your belt only covers two inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." Shouldn't the people just be judged by what they know? they are. I've had purple belts who were better fighters than green belts. Each person has their own strengths. For some, sparring isn't it. I pair people up by ability rather than rank. Two brown belts may have very different sparring abilities... kinda like RW and Freefly. Same jump numbers, different experience base. If everyone at the Dojo were wearing white belts you would be able to tell who knows what pretty quickly...I might be able to..But how is the brand new student going to know who to listen to? this is why instructors need to keep a careful eye on things and politely jump in if some misinformation is being passed Jumps are just like belts...Most times the person with the higher number of jumps knows more than the guy with less...Just like the guy with the higher belt knows more than the guy with the lower belt. you haven't met some of the same black belts I have. I've run into many a black belt at a tournament that can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, and I've seen a few who were wearing rank that was probably WAY too low for their ability. Most experienced martial artists will tell you that a black belt doesn't mean a whole lot these days, simply because there's no set standard. I knew a few Green belts that were better fighters than some guys with red belts... But its not the norm. unfortunately, its happening a lot more often, due to the deluge of the "McDojo" who serves up black belts like McDonalds' serves up fries. We have to really stress to our students that its not what's tied around your waist that's important, its what's in your head that matters.

You're correct. In an ideal world, everyone identifying their jump numbers would be great. The reasons people don't do it are: they want to pretend to have more experience than they do. they don't want to be ridiculed for asking a question or making a comment just because they're a newbie The first situation says more about the individual jumper. The second says more about how some people here treat newbies.

ah. you guys must be using different forum software than I'm used to.

no, that's different. I'm talking about the emails that DZ.com sends to my personal email in-box to let me know someone replied to my post.

My cousin Danny just had his appendix out on Friday. He walked into the doctor's office without his insurance card (I know this because my aunt was yelling at him about it when I called him). He goes to school about three hours from where his parents live, and he just didn't have the card with him. He saw the doc anyway. The doctor said they'd just bill him and he and his parents could work things out with the insurance. Doc arranged for him to get to the hospital and he had his appendix out within a few hours. Danny told me "my side hurt and I had a bit of a fever... I didn't think it was that serious. didn't feel all that sick. only reason I went to the doctor at all was because my coach made me." I don't want to think what could've happened if the doctor had turned him away because he didn't have his insurance card.

or maybe just merge the two threads so we don't have two different sources of info? That'd be cool.

This issue has been going on for about a week. There seems to be quite a delay (hours, sometimes days) between the time someone replies to my post or sends a PM and the time I get an email notification. I'm on a couple of different forums, and I'm receiving prompt reply notifications from the other ones, so I'm guessing the problem is on the other end. Is this happening to anyone else?

#3 was an option in my studio. Letting a newbie teach a FJC or something like that is silly simply because you may not have a chance to undo the damage. If someone makes a wrong statement about skydiving, the statement is wrong because what the person wrote is incorrect. The jumper is not wrong because they only have ten jumps. they are wrong because they have inaccurate information. I've learned a lot more from people who've taken the time to correct inaccurate info that I may have than from people who've just said "you've only got X jumps, you don't know shit" and never bothered to provide the accurate info. and if someone did choose the option to teach my martial arts class, I'd let them teach the first half, and then use the second half to show why what he taught either would or wouldn't work. A learning tool for my students, and an education for the problem student as to why I am the instructor and they are not. I tell my newbie students "if you have a question, ASK. if you think you understand something, explain it back to me so I can make sure." I really hope someone wouldn't stand quietly in the back of the class and smile and nod, because they miss out on opportunities for learning and correction. When I'm teaching, I don't want to just hear "Yes, Ma'am." I want to hear "Ma'am, what about...?" or "Ma'am, what happens if I do this?" or "Ma'am, if I've got it right, what you mean is..." That way, I know if they really get it. I can tell my students a million times "if you punch with your thumb inside your closed fingers, you will break it. Punching like that puts extreme pressure on your finger joint and bone, and a sharp impact can break or dislocate it." Most listen. I try to grab those that don't listen and re-arrange their fingers. Every so often, one person, no matter how many times I tell them or show them, doesn't believe me and slams their incorrectly made fist into a heavy bag and breaks their thumb. Those folks become my "incident reports" when they're sitting in the back of the studio watching class with their hand in a cast. Because my students not only know HOW to throw a punch, they know WHY they're taught to do it the way they are, they can adapt what they've learned to start to make choices for themselves. If I tell them "we don't kick above the knee in this technque because it will put you off balance if you kick higher." they can take that information and apply it to, say, a sparring match, where they'll choose to sweep the leg rather than kick to the head. If I just told them "don't kick above the knee in this technique because I'm the instructor, you're the student, and you don't know shit." they never receive the explanation that lets them actually learn. It would be like asking them to memorize their multiplication tables without ever explaning the concept behind multiplication. When the answer is just "because I know more than you." the student misses out on the opportunity to learn.

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You can talk someone through different scenarios to illustrate your point. Someone doesn't have to be physically shown in order to be taught. If someone makes a statement you disagree with, post evidence to illustrate your point. If you just brush them off as a newbie and don't actually address the issue, both they and every other newbie reading the thread, misses out on the opportunity to learn something, or at least, pick up a few things to ask their instructors about. I guess my point is that people are afraid to post their jump numbers because they think people won't talk to them or answer their quesitons, or will respond with an awful attitude. It's about sticking to the issues. If someone says that they think newbies learning to swoop is a good thing, responding with "you've only got ten jumps, you don't know shit" is counterproductive. Saying "newbies lack the canopy skills, experience, and ability to execute a proper swoop. It is dangerous for anyone without proper experience to attempt a swoop because [insert your reasoning here]." might be a little more helpful, not only to the person posting, but to anyone lurking the thread who may have the same question/idea. Even though it might not sink in to the poster themselves, it may sink in to people you don't even know are reading. oh... if someone in my class ever said I was a bad instructor, I'd say that they are: 1. welcome to show themselves the door. 2. welcome to speak to the head instructor 3. welcome to come up to the front of the class and give it a go themselves.

Would I listen to the yellow belt with an opinion, give him or her a chance to speak, and to test their theory? ABSOLUTELY. And, if they happen to be wrong, I'd take the time to show them why. Its a learning opportunity. I NEVER, EVER take on the attitude of "I am the instructor, you are the student, what I say is law, and you may not ever question me." By taking the attitude you have, you create an environment that is hostile to newbies. If they can't ask a question or voice an opinion, how are they supposed to learn anything? Deal with the issue, not the person. A conversation I had with a friend I was sparring with last week: Christopher: would it work if I do it this way? Me: probably not. you're dropping your guard on your left side. You're welcome to try it anyway, though. Him: ok. lets see how it goes. Me: *SMACK* Him: Owwww. I guess that wasn't the best way to do it, was it? Me: Nope. Do you understand why now? Him: Because when I drop my guard on my left side to try to hit you, it creates an opening that you can get to me first. Me: What would be a better way to do that? Him: maybe like this? Me: ok. lets try that. Him: Hey! That's better! Me: why? Him: because I didn't leave my side open. I kept my elbow in so you couldn't get to me. Me: yup. If I'd just told him "my way's better, deal." the lesson would have been lost. Sure, you have the people that won't listen no matter what you tell them. Those folks, in my classes, become my examples. Although THEY refuse to learn what I have to teach, they present a GREAT opportunity for me to use them to teach others.