PalmettoTiger

Yeah, I second that! The first-person camera doesn't show much, but what you do see is HIGH-larious. Once a jumper with a sidemounted camera caught a weird downdraft just at flare time - he flared and the canopy planed out, but at that instant the air around him was moving down, so he basically hit without the benefit of flaring and did a feet-knees-chest-chin PLF. His video of it showed a green blur as he slid on his belly for a bit, and then as he rolls and the camera comes off the ground you can see a little rooster tail of grass clippings being thrown up in his wake. Since he was only shaken up and not hurt, it was fuckin' funny. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

True dat... I remember saying "Thanks for the rides, Troy!" on the ground one day and got the strangest look from the pilot and the coach I had been jumping with. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Like I said above I don't know, but I think the regs from plane to plane... maybe DiverDriver can help us out on this question? PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

On the CNN page carrying the AP report, there's a picture of the crashed Porter. It's just demolished. Destroyed. Very frightening, and saddening at the same time. To my unexpert eyes, it looks like it just plummeted after the collision and hit the ground very hard. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Great engraving... poor grammar. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

I dunno where the actual "runway" begins, but if people are looking for a sense of scale, my measurements were of the pavement from end to end. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Congrats Zen! I got a Handspring Visor Edge for X-Mas, and it's been an incredible tool. I have a terrible short-term memory, so I used to carry a notepad around to jot things down like grocery lists or things I had to get done that day, etc. The Visor is so much better than that, though - I use it as a notepad, calendar, and address book, and it's so much easier to stay organized now. The best thing about it is that it's really thin, so I can slip it in my pocket and have it with me at all times. It also has a built-in metal faceplate, so I don't have to have a separate case for it (which would make it too big to go in a pocket). Do you have wireless data service on the 1300, or just voice service? PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

you should do it in the errors and bug reports forum, no one reads those. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

hehehe... d'OH! Um, just ignore those labels then and pretend I knew what was going on. Shows you how much I know about airports... the only ones I visit on a regular basis have ONE runway.

What kind of aircraft crashed? I think the bailout rig requirement varies from plane to plane; I don't know the regs exactly. I've done a whuffo ride in an Twin Otter without a rig, and every pilot and passenger I've seen in a 182 or King Air wore a rig. It might be something about the bulkhead separating the pilot and co-pilot from the cabin that makes the Twin Otter exempt (or no one told me and let the pilot slide by too). But even if he had a rig, I can think of dozens of reasons why he didn't have the opportunity to use it. The collision may have been too low - suppose it happened at 2500 feet with no warning, then he spends 1500 ft trying to get control, and by the time it's clear he had to get out, there's not enough time. Or, the collision could have been catastrophic to the point where he just couldn't get out (violent spin, aircraft totally mangled). Not really likely if the other plane involved managed to land, but still a possibility I guess. The most likely thing that comes to mind is that he may have regained control of the aircraft and was bringing it back in when some damaged component finally failed and rendered the aircraft uncontrollable. I dunno. I guess I shouldn't speculate too much until we know more... hopefully since the other aircraft returned okay, we can eventually have a good idea of what happened and why, and know what we have to guard against to keep it from happening again. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

*cue crickets chirping* j/k. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Here's the latest AP wire report (10:24 pm EST). My sorrows to those who knew and loved him. MARANA, Ariz. (AP) — An airplane used by the Golden Knights military parachute team collided with a civilian plane during a practice jump near a rural airport Friday, a military spokeswoman said. The military pilot was killed, said Lt. Col. Marian Hansen. The four parachutists had jumped from the plane before the collision. The turboprop used by the skydivers crashed into a dry riverbed a mile north of the Marana Airport. The civilian plane, a Cessna, landed safely, said Keith Holloway, a spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB and the military were investigating. The Golden Knights, the Army's parachute team, are based out of Fort Bragg, N.C., but had been conducting training at the Marana Airport, about 20 miles north of Tucson. The military pilot was identified as Lowell K. Timmons. His hometown and age weren't immediately released. Blues forever. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Here's the link to the picture, there's a scale along the bottom. If you're just trying to get an idea and don't need the actual scale, it looks to me like runway R-3 is 9/10ths of a mile from tip to tip and R-1 is 1.5 miles from tip to tip. (Can't tell you how many inches on your monitor = 1 mile because of different monitor sizes and resolutions, sorry.) PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Er, it's not a satellite photo. If it was, you wouldn't see the sides of the buildings (or if you did, it would always be the east sides or north sides or whatever). Also, the link says 'military EC-3 recon photo.'

I've had a different take on carrots ever since "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"... PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Whoops, forgot to label one of the runways. Use THIS attached picture instead. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Okay, here's that TerraServer pic (

ahaaaha, that makes sense now.

I defer to your expertise Clay but I'm still bewildered... if it just fell off, why is it flying across the deck puffing exhaust and not just lying on the deck? PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

DING DING!! Correct good sir. Toss out those wild guesses, don't be afraid. Edit: One more I found. Someone should get this almost immediately.

Can anyone translate TripleF and Shark for me? I'm fascinated by flying in general and naval aviation especially, but some of this is over my head. I know what the 3 wire is, but I can't tell from that picture which one the pilot got. And a bolter is when a naval aviator misses all 4 arrestor cables and has to go around, right? Why would an AIM-9 discharging on a bolter not be called a misfire? As a side note, I worked for McCain's presidential campaign in SC from Sept. 99 to Feb of 2000. I have the utmost respect for him. He's one of the few politicians who seems willing to tell it like it is (well, as much as a US Senator can) and actually lead the fight on big issues. Even beyond his style, I agree with a lot of his politics. And on top of that, even though he still has scars and impairments from his years as a POW (you'll never see him raise his arms above his shoulders; they were broken/dislocated and never allowed to properly heal) he has an amazing perspective on it - he characterized his shootdown as "valiantly intercepting a surface-to-air-missle with my aircraft." One of the very few role models left in American politics. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Hey, if you've got some free time, how about finding a buyer for that powder blue PD 176R on consignment at Square 3? Only one jump, DOM 5/94, WHAT A STEAL!!!!! (hint hint to anyone looking for a barely used reserve) I took your advice and upsized, but until the old one sells I'm stuck with the difference racking up interest on my MasterCard. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Hey now, I'm originally from South Carolina, and I was born and razed, er, raised in a city that Sherman torched. You better not egg us Southerners on, or we're liable to do something self-righteous, shortsighted, and incredibly destructive. "My dear South Carolina: too small for a republic, and too large for an insane asylum." - James Petigru, 1860. PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

Who said what? (the PTiger edition) First a couple funny ones that probably no one will get. (the l33t h4X0r in me loves this one): "They have computers, and they may have other weapons of mass destruction." "As God once said, and I think rightly..." "The French people are incapable of regicide." "The Army is the Indian's best friend." Now for the real stuff: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." "As long as men worship the Caesars and Napoleons, the Caesars and Napoleons will duly rise and make them miserable." "Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." "Don't let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right." "Boundary: (noun) In political geography, an imaginary line between two nations, separating the imaginary rights of one from the imaginary rights of another." "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." "It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them." "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." "You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you." PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

OK, I'll bite... Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry. Winston Churchill. You must be the change you wish to see in the world. Gandhi? The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category. um, don't know. We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools. Sounds like Benjamin Franklin but I'm not really sure. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need. Karl Marx. The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein. The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. Gotta be Benjamin Franklin. Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it. Not sure. Justice is incidental to law and order. Don't know. Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. Rhymes with "Schmissinger" Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. Baberaham Lincoln? It is much more secure to be feared than to be loved. Niccolo Machiavelli... my Political Theory Prof. last semester was a Machiavelli devotee, and convinced most of us that Machiavelli has a bad rap as an extremist.... We would like to live as we once lived, but history will not permit it. Don't know. Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. JFK. Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind. JFK again. Leadership is a combination of strategy and character. If you must be without one, be without the strategy. don't know. One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic. Joseph Stalin. Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far. Eisenhower or Teddy Roosevelt, not sure which... You can never get all the facts from just one newspaper, and unless you have all the facts, you cannot make proper judgements about what is going on. Don't know. Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action. Jefferson? Madison? They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Jefferson? Franklin? I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Very famous Einstein quote. The way to win an atomic war is to make certain it never starts. Don't know. Sounds like Kissinger again but I doubt it. Wars have never hurt anybody except the people who die. Don't know. Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. Gandhi again? The victor will never be asked if he told the truth. Der Fuhrer. The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war. MacArthur. What a cruel thing is war: to separate and destroy families and friends, and mar the purest joys and happiness God has granted us in this world; to fill our hearts with hatred instead of love for our neighbors, and to devastate the fair face of this beautiful world. Robert E. Lee. (it was never there on time....) It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. don't know. That was fun. Lemme dig through the rest of my quote list and see what I can contribute... PTiger I'm stepping through the door And I'm floating in a most peculiar way