yoink

I agree. Completely. And it pisses me off too. But I also think people deserve a second chance when they admit they were wrong. Hell. I lied about my experience to get on a night jump when I had 30 jumps. I wouldn't do it now, but then? I was stupid and thought I knew everything. By all means, we should correct any factually incorrect information he posts - that's the point of having this community. But having been caught lying I think he deserves a chance to prove he's changed. Who knows - his keenness might be channeled into actually getting an instructor rating and really learning... Having said that, I've no sympathy if he continues lying the way he was... One chance. One. Chris - I hope you're reading this. I'm sticking my neck out for you against some people I have the utmost respect for.

Chris has stated that he's trying to change both his attitude and posting habits. How about we give him the chance, eh? Too much kicking people when they're down round here.

No idea whether it has anything to do with the real reason, but a number of years ago I watched a BBC documentary talking about hypoxia as a method of death sentence. Many, MANY of the members of the public interviewed about it, after it was explained, thought that it was too easy and 'nice'... that the punished should suffer in some way, and that checking out on a high wasn't enough punishment. Personally, it made me feel sick.

Never heard of Aero Tech, but just from their website I'd guess the Comanche is a closer analogue to the Sabre 2 than the Apache. The Apache is listed as fully elliptical - probably not the best idea for a first canopy. I also couldn't see any pricing. Why are you looking at Aero Tech specifically? Are they lots cheaper?

On a separate note I'll throw in a first hand example of how communication on the internet can go spectacularly wrong. I was a member of a video game console forum a few years ago that had a significant modding / alteration scene attached to it. Components were being altered and bought and sold regularly. Some people got reasonably well known after doing it for a while and were seen as the 'go-to' guys if people had questions. They were respected as experts. One day a newer member started doing the same. He'd seen the respect that these people had and wanted that same thing. He started trading and selling, but without the knowledge or experience that some of the others had. A number of trades went bad and instead of getting respect and kudos, he got a bad reputation as someone who promised more than he could deliver, lied about his experience and was unreliable. It was the opposite of what he wanted. He lost any semblance of trust from people who he wanted to respect him. So he killed himself. No shit. I'm being entirely honest. When the site owner ended up talking to his mother it turns out that he was having issues at home and school. The usual stuff - not fitting in. Being picked on a bit. The parents in the middle of a divorce... and we guess he saw the online community as a way to change that. To be respected. When that started blowing up on him too I guess it was more than he could take. He didn't talk to anyone about the issues he was having. He wasn't honest with anyone about WHY this respect was so important to him so noone offered any help... that's not callous, it was simply lack of knowledge on our part. That fucked up situation has stuck with me for over 15 years and I remember it every time I make a post. This is relevant simply because your apparent need to be seen as an expert has direct correlation in my experience. I truly hope that the similarity is coincidental, but if it's not, you don't need to say anything here but please TALK TO SOMEONE. I'd rather be wrong a thousand times when giving that advice than miss it again.

Fine. I'll bite. If you're interested in my qualifications for this opinion I'll give them to you. I've been around online communication since some of the first open bulletin boards in some form or other. I've hosted, led, edited, moderated and significantly contributed to dozens of discussion forums - not just the odd post here or there, but putting YEARS and in some cases DECADES into them. With that experience I've come to a number of conclusions. 1) Online communication is a learned skill. Some people are naturally better at it than others, just as some people are naturally better at public speaking than others, but it is a skill that should be continuously improved. 2) Knowing that, give people some slack before attacking them. Maybe they're just not good at communicating in that environment. But be ready to answer questions people might have about what you've posted - maybe your intention got lost in the text... 3) Knowing the above make what you say as simple as possible online. Face to face communication has a massive component of intonation and body language that subconsciously contributes to the conversation and all of that is lost in text. So - keep it simple and to the point. 4) Reading and understanding takes more effort for most people than listening, so you can't have an entire conversation in 2 posts. Distill what you're trying to say down to bite-sized pieces. Chris - you don't have to be an expert to have people listen to you. It's fine to say 'I've only got 50 jumps but this is what I think and why.' If you've got that information from other sources you can list them... people respect that honesty and it gives a common baseline for a conversation. Everyone's working from the same facts. But the deliberate way you try to sound more knowledgeable than you actually are in some areas makes every post you make suspect. 'I started skydiving back in the 70's, implying that you've 40 years of experience - we both know that isn't the case. Start being honest with people and they'll respect you for it. But be aware it'll take a lot of time and effort to win back peoples trust.

I have faith that our newbie population are a highly motivated bunch of intelligent individuals that can in fact think for themselves. They enjoy the free flow of information. The "message" is what is important , and they are capable of deciding for themselves. C You're wrong. You're advocating that everyone's opinion is equally valid and that's simply not the case. The message has to be tailored to the audience who's receiving it for it to be useful. Say a beginner came on here and asked 'I'm having trouble going forwards in high winds - help!" They then get a whole raft of advice given to them by a dozen different posters as shown below: 1) Strap on 20 pounds of lead. 2) Fly a smaller canopy. 3) Don't jump in high winds. 4) Use your front risers. 5) Use your rear risers. 6) Fly close behind another canopy to draft them. 7) Curl up in a ball to make yourself smaller. Some of these answers are simply wrong. Others are wrong for their experience level. Others are right. Who should they listen to? On the internet posters can be anyone and may unknowingly give poor advice. I could easily lie about my name, experience or jump numbers. I might not read their profile if I'm in a rush and give advice that isn't suitable. I might simply be regurgitating stuff I've heard or read without checking to see if it's true. How would they know, with their extremely limited experience, which are which? So in your model - the 'the message is important' idea - they pick a post like the ones you make to follow. It sounds good. Long and eloquent. It contains plausibly correct information that relates to stuff they've seen on the dropzone. So they strap on the 20 pounds of lead on the next jump, yank on a front riser and kill themselves. If you really advocate giving newbies ALL the information and letting them decide from themselves, then that includes the qualifications of the person giving it so that they can make the informed decision. However, as we've already mentioned - it's extremely easy to lie about that on the internet... hence, the community has a responsibility to help them filter the bullshit. It's not about ego for anyone other than you. You obviously didn't get the message, Chris. I'm with Sparky, I'm done trying to respond to your walls of text here.

It's something I've always loved the idea of doing and am thinking of giving it a try this coming year... Anyone know if the currency / cost requirements are similar to skydiving, or is it something that you can do once or twice a month? If anyone flies in the San Diego area I'll happily buy a couple of beers for you in exchange for a chat sometime...

Have you gotten the message? What do you think the message is, Chris? How will we know if you've got it? That's easy... Everyone will know because you'll truthfully post your experience and home dz here, and you'll stop pretending to be an expert on everything - listen more, talk less. I'm with 'Twardo - WHY are you pushing this so hard, Chris?

Congrats!!!

Because opinions in skydiving often result in action. And action can lead to people getting killed. This isn't a philosophical debate. As an inexperienced skydiver you might not understand that the opinions you're offering may not be suitable for other low time jumpers. You simply can't learn everything from reading - that's how it related to this thread. So (with the best intentions) you may post faulty opinion on a subject based on your limited understanding and experience, which can be misconstrued as fact by other beginners - your posting style deliberately tries to imitate or reflect more experience than you seem to have and so the danger is that someone listens to your opinion, acts on it, and then dies. THAT's the problem people are having with you. If you don't like it, there's a simple solution - post your real name, dz and jump numbers - stuff that's easily verifiable. Most people here are big enough to apologize if they're wrong. But at the moment the consensus seems to be that you don't know enough to be posting the way you are. Your personality is trying to pose as an expert when you don't have the experience or qualifications to suggest otherwise. The irony of this coming up in this particular thread amuses me, by the way. Is book smart with 5 jumps the same as the guy who has 500 jumps in a year, or 500 jumps in 5 years? The other thing I find really interesting is that I've been reading these forums for over a decade now, and can count on one hand the number of times I've seen people actually asking a poster to verify their qualifications.... Sure there are 'fill in your profile' answers, but for people to actually call someone out and directly ask for a posters experience is extremely rare... Maybe you might want to learn from that.

You're so wrong. the source is exceptionally important. Hang around a bonfire or in a bar after hours and you'll hear some fucking TERRIBLE advice being given - particularly to low time jumpers who don't know any better by other low time jumpers who think they know everything. What you learn could very well be bullshit if you don't know any better...

any jumper with a little brain should be able to tell if gear is stolen or sketchy. PHONE them up. Ask how they got the gear. Where they jumped. Ask for the name of the DZO and give them a call to verify. Ask what discipline they like and who packed the reserve last. It's EASY to tell people who are talking shit. Learn about your gear and you'll come up with a thousand questions to ask.

Kinda depends on your definition doesn't it?

What's your point? Are we just playing word association games now, or are you somehow linking heroin and Obama? I'm dying to hear the rationalization of this one that doesn't end up with me calling you a tool.

For me the campaign on CoD has sucked for the last several games. Just uninspiring and dull. Maybe an 11yo would like it but I think it's even more adult than Gears. The online multiplayer was usually good fun, but as a community it's chock full of hooting dickholes. I wouldn't want my young kids on there. FWIW I'd go: Borderlands Gears CoD The other option is to go backwards - not sure which Halo games he's played, but Halo 2 and 3 were the pinnacle of the series for the campaign I reckon. If he's younger he may have missed out on those.

Borderlands 2 I'd suggest. I think that can be played split screen co-op. The Gears of War series were all spitscreen Co-op as well I think, but that's slightly more mature. How old's your son? Left for Dead were a great couple of games too - never played them splitscreen myself but those are creepy and great fun! edit: Check out this website - you can filter the results for local splitscreen and FPS. http://www.co-optimus.com/system/1/xbox-360.html

Not only that, but experienced jumpers are more likely to put themselves in the position to get more severely injured if they make a smaller mistake. In general: Higher wingloadings More eliptical planforms Larger group skydives More complicated jumps when compared to low time jumpers.

The inital reports were that she was arrested for potential visa fraud, and then cavity searched. Then that she claimed diplomatic immunity against being charged. The inital report was taken from the BBC. Where did you get this updated info? If she claimed dimplomatic immunity that without actually being privy to those privileges, then she's an idiot. If the police arrested and cavity searched a foreign diplomat for visa fraud, they they're idiots. That's where I'm upset. General stupidity... and just social commentary on info available a the time.

You do know that you aren't doing them a favor with the visa program? You've giving them visas because they bring value TO the US... throwing them out of it doesn't seem like the brightest move. Can you imagine the shit fit that Putin would be having if his ambassador got the ol' rubber glove treatment? Jesus!

Would you have to pay the packers extra for that?

Yup - just pointing out to DaVinci that supposing 'simple' injuries and ailments = 'easily affordable' is not necessarily the same. That's why I have insurance.

When it's a foreign diplomat? At the very least they're usually treated with kid gloves... so either the officers went WAAAAY too far, in which case I'm sure people will be thrown under the bus of public opinion, or they had other reasons for that level of intimacy. What, did they think she was hiding all the extra cash from the visa application up there or something? It just seems out of proportion.

All of those could have EASILY been paid for as needed. I'm not convinced you have any idea of the real costs of medical care in the US. A number of years ago in Perris a group of UK student skydivers came visiting. Being from the UK, and being students, some of these guys didn't have the appropriate level of health insurance. Sure enough, after a long day of jumping and partying one of them got hurt - being pushed over in a portapotty if memory serves (although I might be wrong on that). Either way, it necessitated an ambulance, a CT scan and a stay overnight in the hospital - probably just to sober up but it wasn't a big injury... A bump on the head and a sprain I think. You'd think being so minor that the costs would be trivial. They gave him a bill for TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars - which of course he had no chance of paying. He had the option of just getting on a flight home. US citizens don't.

I would NOT want to be humping that rig around all day.