frost

Interesting article about original Russian parachutists. Wing suits are described and pictures shown. http://dzkirzhach.ru/index.php?action=showfull&module=16&id=1155823533 I did a quick babel fish translation on Altavista.com, seems to be pretty readable to an average American :) scroll down to see the pics of the first Russian birdmen -----------quote from the article----------- AIR RESEARCHERS The technique of a delayed jump was worked on for years. The search for stable, adjusted methods of controlling the body in the prolonged freefall was on. Leaps with the wings were one of the stages of this search. From the early ages man dreamed of flying as a bird, and he attempted to carry out this dream. The experiments of leap-flights with the wings were taking place in in our country in 1935-1936. This first leap was carried out on 17 April, 1935 by a master of the parachute sport OF THE USSR Georgiy Alexandrovich Schmidt, who was the head of the parachute service in the scientific research institute VVS (Military Airborne Service). He took active part in testing of the first models of the paraborne technology......... G. Schmidt jumped with the wings of the telescopic form constructed by N. S. Smirnova. Their frame consisted of the metal tubes, which were put one into another. Body was covered with percale. At the ends of the wing there were ailerons to change body position in and the direction of flight.

Bruno, thanks for your reply I understand what you're saying... what you describe is a concern to me as well. But isnt everything we do is a trade off for something else? Would you rather have a bigger reserve in case the shoulder is messed up or would you rather have a smaller reserve (similar in size to main) in case you have two canopies out? Either one is a small chance, and i guess we have to weigh in the options, chances and possibilities. I honestly dont know what the best solution would be. I just wanted to see how a reserve loaded at over 2:1 would handle.

Thanks Ian

Thanks! Any idea how to contact Scott Miller?

How far do you go on that thing? Obviously not x-braced distances but i heard someone in CPC (Dan McAllister sp?) went 230+ feet? have you head of anyone gone more then 300 on a sabre 2? SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

Thanks guys!! :)

Not sure about the name, but i do recall seeing some great swoops of someone under a Sabre2. Do you know what his wingloading/canopy size was? How far did he go in the distance round? I started downloading the big CPC 05 file i found on skydivingmovies.com - wonder if the link you gave is to the same one. Thanks for the help!

I cannot find it... I think it was on one of the Colorado CPC events, awesome sabre 2 swoops... Does anyone know who it was, distance, type of turn, wind conditions?? May be a link to the video... thanks!

Awesome! Reminds me of Out of the Blue...

I guess it only goes to prove how quickly the new generation of swoopers is progressing. Look at all the new tools, the knowledge base, the videos that are available to us now.... all that helps someone with 400-600 jumps perform great 270 degree turns and allows someone with 1000-1500 jumps to quickly learn advanced maneuvers that took thousands of jumps to master before.

what about all the stuff you need to learn before you get to 300-400 jumps, before you start to turn? that is the most important step! now, in a fantasy world, we could all do 1000 jumps a year, and if that is the case, then of course all this progression changes. BUT, if you stay current at 300 jumps a year, the progression I posted is dead on. Are you saying that you were doing straight in approaches until 400 jumps and still doing 90 degree turns when you had 1000 jumps??

I don't think that any gadget can give you an ultimate good setup. NOTHING will "give" you an ultimate good setup. But using proper tools, along with experience will certainly help you get there.

Agreed. We're on the same page...I am also a huge proponent of doing it right the first time and using visual digital altis. As far as "go at the beep" swooper... It is not good, but seems that's where it's headed. Some might call it progress, others might give it a different name. I know one thing - I am seeing HUGE improvements from people who went to visual and audible aids like a neptune, viso or optima. I am seeing people with 200-250 jumps making 270 turns. They are not dialed in, not precise nor always on heading... But never [dangerously] low. I dont want to go off topic, or drift into neptune vs eyes debate... All i am saying is that turns can be dialed in fairly quickly by most people if using proper tools, MUCH quicker then just with eyes/experience. No need to wait 1000 jumps...

This isnt really about what canopy to jump at what level. We all know people on bigger 9 cells that can out swoop others who fly x-braces. This is more about progressing and advancing the skill of a turn. What i am thinking is this: Chances are someone with 1000+ jumps might already be @ 1.7+ wing loading. Looks like many folks are getting there way before then anyway. So why start learning advanced turns at that high of a load? whats the point of sticking with 90-180 for that long, getting to the the "expert" wingloading and THEN start learning 270+ rotations?? The only reasons i can think of why someone with 400-500 jumps cant dial in a 270 in 100 jumps (edit: using a neptune) are poorer motor-visual reflexes and/or healthy fear of the ground. Nothing wrong with either one, of course. Of course, ultimately, as you said, everyone progresses at their own level. There is nothing wrong with going slowly. One can stay with a 90 degree turn for the rest of their swooping career and still cut the pond in half.

Good progression scale? It might be good for a very very slow learner or a very very scared one. More then likely nobody learning to swoop would follow it since it would be a waste of their time and money.

I guess i wasnt the only one who had to turn off the sound?

This post is more for those who might have a similar question later... So i did demo the PD113R. Loaded at nearly 2.1:1 it flew great. Not docile by any means, but still very manageable and fun to fly. It was hooked up to regular mini risers so i even did a 180 front riser turn and swooped it, finishing on rears. Perhaps a high performance landing wasn't the best idea since a real reserve wont have the front loops and slider wont come down. or may be i'll ask my rigger to put front loops on reserve risers :) So if you like me are concerned with how a highly loaded PD reserve will handle - dont worry, you'd be fine... If you still have concerns - DEMO IT! and see for yourself. just dont take it to terminal :)

I am getting an error trying to play the file after downloading it... can someone verify? Unknown error -8971

Sometimes MEL has been hard to reach, yes, but he's always gotten back to me. Not only that - he's shipped a slider to me at HIS OWN expense via next day delivery! Every time i had dealt with him he has went the extra distance to explain and deliver things to me. I dont believe that what happened to you was done intentionally. May be this was just one of those times when shit happens to the best of them? Please give him another chance - i am 100% confident he will resolve this to your satisfaction.

I could host it. I sent you a PM - reply to me for id/pw info to the FTP server

Try searching for cpc2006.mp4 or F89EF78AE4A737EE4BB4A48DE1CB3A82 (which i believe is the file id) from eMule (or another) p2p utility. I found the file but there is only one source, so eMule has not downloaded a single bit over night... Hope someone can host this file.

that was same swoop... thanks man!

The tunnel rocked! So much better then Orlando! More flow, more power, smoother air much better facilities.... Huge progress. The staff was great and friendly. On a side note... If you think you can fly - go to the tunnel and get humbled. It was funny to see freefly istructors from another DZ who supposedly rock in the sky trying to learn head down in there :) To me it was very humbling to go back to step one (backflying) to learn how to sit fly properly in the wind tunnel. It was awesome to see my friends with plenty of tunnel time and 3 times less jumps then me fly much better then me and look like they have more then a 1000 jumps. I also saw supreme precision from Kirk Verner (who was coaching there) - not a single wasted move, every movement has a purpose... just amazing! Almost made me wanna go back to belly flying again! NOT! :) The tunnel flying is so much different... and SUCH a great tool for anyone at ANY level. If your goal is to be great in freefall - definitely check it out!

minor splash...

Awesome show. Concepts of sizes/wingloading, benefits of a larger wing, crosswinds etc were well explained for non-skydivers too. It occured to me that this was probably filmed months ago - since Corliss was still the host for this episode.