Lefty

Vengeance might not be the exact right word, but the implication is bill would be under stress to get the information and not simply doing it to be a dick. Indeed, when lives are on the line stress does occur. I doubt most Americans, while sitting in their comfortable chairs, can appreciate the threats that are out there. That is why the public can condemn the actions of the interrogators so easily--it doesn't cost them a thing to do so and it makes them feel good. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Where did vengeance come into all of this? Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Even you, Bill. You'd do what you have to do. EDIT: Eventually the goalposts will shift and we'll be discussing whether doing anything more than asking "pretty please" to a criminal/terrorist constitutes torture. Waterboarding is just the next technique to be knocked off the list...officially. Unofficially, the government will continue to use whatever techniques work; whether that's waterboarding or sleep deprivation. It would be foolish not to--as long as word doesn't get out and offend our delicate sensibilities. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Is it torture? Yes. Would I conduct it if it could save lives? Yes...and so would all of you. It's really that simple. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Hah, let's see him go on a shooting spree with three handguns and 30,000 rounds of ammo in his pockets. Wouldn't get very far. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Or, let's reduce all speed limits to 5 mph. Hey, if even one life can be saved from that measure, it's worth it. The logic of these people... Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Once you carry the proposed law to its logical conclusion, it's either foolish or sinister. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

From the article: "City officials want to prevent passers-by from seeing somebody with a gun near a school, calling police and triggering a lockdown and major police response to a false alarm." This is the only aspect that could possibly make the restriction law useful, instead of the standard feel-good, please-won't-someone-think-of-the-children, anti-gun idiocy. It's hard to see the point of it, though, when they're grandfathering in existing businesses anyway. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

A bit dramatic but, as you said, truth is truth. Unfortunately, as individuals within our society become weaker, fatter, and more accustomed to the luxuries our civilization affords us, the draw of the nanny state becomes too powerful. Too bad they drag the useful and self-reliant folks down with them. Our "progress" towards our current state is inevitable for any country. Eventually the reset button will be hit and everything starts fresh. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Yeah, you'd think people would have figured out the analogy by now. It's in the interests of most people to remain ignorant. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

High school debate team quality cheap shot. Should we declare the arguments that have raged over the Constitution (since before it was even written) finished because you've got it all figured out, then? Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Man, those are some bad ideas. That does sound pretty historic, if that is their motive. By "everyone" do you mean all the consumers who, knowing we have to stop burning fossil fuels, purchase fossil fuel burning cars anyway? Which is exactly what the companies who pledge to create more eco-friendly cars will do once they know the government will be paying their bills. Best idea of the post. In other words, give them a paid vacation for a few years. Are you suggesting these auto workers are somehow dumber and less capable than any other employee who gets laid off? They can dig into their savings, go back to school, and learn new skills just like the rest of us. Haha, I'll make that pledge. Want to pay me? More like Brave New American Auto Industry. Another rule: completely ignore market forces and consumer demand...because that's what's going to sell these cars. Right, no government money. Only the government "killing off" a huge sector of the country's economy and hoping the rest falls into place. You had it right when you said "let them die". No need to kill them off with our own money. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Until they start making periwinkle AR-15s, I will. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

*sniff* So beautiful... *sniff* Excuse me. Really neat looking firearm. Good work! Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Wow, that comment almost made the beer come out of my nose. I also heard he likes to spike midgets off the ground and punch the Easter bunny in the face. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Exhibit A. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Larry King is just a tabloid masquerading as a serious news program. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

I'm not so upset about the bow since I'm getting used to the gaffes, but how dumb does the administration think we are? Trying to convince us that it wasn't a bow? Just admit it. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

In times like this I sit cross-legged on my yoga mat and chant "Hooooooooooooooooooope...Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaange." Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

They'll have to put additional reverse gears on their tanks now. Haha Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

If I didn't already have my own libertarian-minded reasons for agreeing with their actions, your reason would be enough. :-) Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Simple solution: make two leagues. One league is completely legit and no illegal performance enhancing drugs are allowed. The other can be called the "mutant league" where they openly pump these guys full of every steroid known to man so they can be as big, strong, and fast as possible. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Seriously? Mark Foley's successor Tim Mahoney involved in a sex scandal. What are the odds? I call some sort of curse... Story This is kind of an interesting line, though: "Senior Democratic leaders in the House of Representatives, including Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL), the chair of the Democratic Caucus, have been working with Mahoney to keep the matter from hurting his re-election campaign, the Mahoney staffers said." How different that is from the Republicans who couldn't forsake Foley fast enough. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Or...vote for the Libertarian candidate? Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin

Quotevotes with Bush +90% of the timeQuote Since when does a president cast a vote for legislation? Edit: weird formatting. Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin