cobaltdan

if you are going to be taking gps measurements i highly suggest the following accessory: http://www.gpsonsale.com/handheldaccessories/products/Vortech.htm it is a reradiator. using gaffers tape you mount the patch antennae on the roof of the airplane, run the wire into the plane, covering the wire with gaffers. power the unit with a small 12v rechargable battery from digikey or radioshack. if you are within about 2 meters of the reradiator in the plane your gos will receive a signal. when you exit the plane you will still have a lock and you wont loose a bunch of time& data waiting to re-establish. we use these on all our test jumps involving gps and they are just great ! sincerely, dan preston atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

", don't they maximize canopy pressurization?" no. cross braces simply reduce spanwise distortion on the top skin of the airfoil by restraining the non loaded ribs from floating up higher. dan www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

"As a side note the Atair logo is very simple to manufacture, and does not add to the pack volume because it's adding no extra material. It's a part of the bottom skin rather than being a layer over the botom skin. It also adds at least 8 more seams and that in my opinion both reduces the strength and durability of the design." actually the logo construction increases, not decreases the canopies strength and provides additional bottom skin support along the fabrics bias. cobalts intentionally overstressed to fail never fail near the logo. i havent really read this thread, but i think there was a question about if different airfoils are used along the span of a parachute?: the answer is no, this is not practiced on skydiving canopies, it is done on paragliders. sincerely, daniel preston atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com I really don't think PD has a problem generating brand loyalty without the logo. Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

it jogged the line (failed to clear) and then deployed its secondary parachute for a soft landing. Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

quade: remember munitions do not need to be soft landed. at 20 : 1 wingloading vector velocities of the onyx exceed 120 mph. if not constructed from a bright color they are nearly imposible to see or track, let alone shoot with a hand gun or rifle. bryan: depending on specifics requirements the canopies are used either with or without sliders. the video you watched showed several cobalt 39's without sliders. we have almost 80 such recorded deployments without sliders on them at speeds up to 203 mph (C17 drops!) all without any instance of damage. They are constructed exactly the same as our sport cobalts. we did however have 1 lineover on a c17 drop. sincerely, daniel preston atair aerospace www.atairaerospace.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

HARP: the system calculates its own harp, actually it calculates a cone of acceptability for it to be dropped in. It is also compatible with wind plotting and targeting systems such as PADS. CREW: actually yes (sort of) we are under an advanced contract to the DOD/Army to build a fleet of systems, implement P2P RF communications protocol and advanced formation flying/ flocking algorithms. We are about 6 weeks away from flying our first "swarm". Sincerely, Daniel Preston Atair Aerospace www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

we just posted some amazing video of our autonomous guided parachutes. check it out. http://www.extremefly.com/aerospace/guidedsystems/ONYX/ Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

We are not producing the demon for performance variable. We do make all their other mains and reserves. The demon was designed by michael (one of our designers) and is manufactured in Shri Lanka (which is how they can sell so cheap). I havent flown one yet but it looks like a nice design. Sincerely, Daniel Preston Atair Aerodynamics www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

Atair is exceedingly busy and expanding rapidly. Between building a new factory, increasing staff 50%, and military and sport production production my free time is non existant. as such i have not been dropzone.com in some time. (please do not pm me here, if you need to reach me contact the office via phone, thanks) i glazed over this thread and wanted to point out: - 22-24" pilot chutes were recommended because we recorded scientific data that showed us that a jumper could not tell the difference between a high shock caused at line stretch by a pilot chute (before the canopy leaves the bag), and a shock caused by the canopy leaving the bag and inflating. This is increasingly the case as speed increases and becomes a serious safety issue at freefly speeds. -we developed the cobalt canopy to reduce the risk of breaking your neck by a high speed deployment. if you are going to fly at 180mph your canopy should be able to open at 180mph with a force vs. time curve that is safe. this this IS effected by pilot chute size, that is for ANY canopy. using a datalogger and strain gauges on the risers you can distinctly resolve the forces subjected to a jumper during line stretch and then for all stages of a canopy deployment. we measured the force vs. time curve for pilot chutes of 18" to 30" in 2" increments. from memory at 120 mph the 22" is over 80 # pull. using a pilot chute that has more pull than necessary at 120mph just makes things worse for you in the event of a high speed premature deployment. additionally as pointed out in the past, please compare apples to apples, not every manufacturer measures the same. some manufactures that argue not to use a 22" actually manufacturer that size and call it a 24". happy holidays to all ! sincerely, daniel preston atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com ps it was never a fix and always a recommendation Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

i jump both in the states and europe meaning i jump here with the us reserve and in europe with the german or us reserve. sorry if that read funny. i will be away for test drop until late next week. i will look into posting flight data on canopies after that. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

again the point that keeps getting lost in these discussions is that 1.2 on a cobalt is exactly the same thing as 1.0 on a sabre. both instances will yield the same foward speed. this is due to differences in measurement, and the performance and efficiency of the wing. general charts are nice but it is general you must expect some variation when trying to apply it specifically to every canopy design. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

yes it did get lost. i usually check in on this board to take a breather from staring at my cad screen all day. if a reply is really long, nit picky or nasty i tend to glaze over it and simply go back to work... i have two main rigs one has a pd 113 reserve in it and the other an atair 110 produced under german tso. i jump both in the states and in europe. the comment about tested in excess of tso was for maximum speed and weight, this with the force vs time curve are the important deployment specifications for a main canopy. obviously for high speed deployments to have an acceptable force vs. time curve deployment time/height must be expanded over that for a reserve. the 1000# tandem was simply an example of the highest reading we have recorded. we have seen the exact same issue and collected data from sport mains and pilots. as to space/alpha/cobalts and begineers: thank you for finaly addressing the point. but we will have to dissagree. i honestly believe that anyone safe on a sabre or safire is equally safe on a space/alpha/cobalt and there is years of history to back up. did you wing load the space @ 1.2? sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

we are not banking on any 'cool' factor. simply: this has to do with 2 factors. one the way we measure sq footage and two the efficiency of the wing. some other manufacturers if they create a more efficient wing simply adjust their sq' footage measurement so that people will be jumping apples to apples performance wise when comparing canopies. we always use the same measurement method. we do not add to the actual footage when quoting to skew for efficiency. we simple change our recommended wing loading. i.e. safires were more efficient than sabers. a 169 safire is considerably smaller than a 170 saber. the 169 is not a 169 but they chose to call it so. our 170 is actually a 170 and we call it a 170 and to compare apples to apples to a saber the cobalt should be slightly heavier loaded. do you understand? i am an engineer not a salesman. i dont believe in skewing data for marketing. btw efficiency is not a flatter trim. it is a better glide at a given wingloading, but not nec. in free flight. skydiving canopies are never trimmed for the best glide in free flight, you have to adjust with your brakes or risers to find that point. more effiecient wings generate more lift. the biggest factor effecting efficiency on a skydiving canopy beyond the airfoil is spanwise airfoil distortion on the top skin. sincerely, daniel preston atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

kirk, your mentioned points are not contradicting: there is little difference between head down and a track. relative wind comes from close to the same direction. and btw we do not say the canopy has to be deployed in a track only that it performs well in a track and as that gives you added seperation for increased safety it is the preferred recommended position to be in a slight track. as far as an elliptical design being good for begineers and high experience there is absolutely nothing contradictory about that. you are basing that comment on misconceptions of you think being elliptical means. older elliptical designs had certain negative traits that made them only suitable for higher experience. but the reality that the only thing you can assume by knowing a canopy is elliptical is that it is more efficient, absolutely nothing more. wethre it is a pocket rocket or a student canopy are determined by the sum total of many design variables. the cobalt is not prone to spinning mal, is very stable, very efficient (fly's big), high glide, slow foward speed and high flare at light wing loadings it is imo a superior choice to a saber/safire. what makes it an excellent canopy at higher wingloadings is the way it speads tension across the top skin which translates to very low spanwise distortion on the airfoil at high wingloadings. the cobalt has the same planform and airfoil as the space and alpha canopies. the alpha has a flawless 6year track record with begineers, the alpha was the hotest swoop canopy up to a few years ago (jim slaton among other 'swoopa stars' competed on alpha). the only difference between the space and the alpha : the name and recommended loading. i have pointed this out many times and no one has ever said the space is an unsuitable canopy for begineers but in people still have the knee jerk reaction of thinking an alpha or cobalt could be good for begineers. and btw every canopy we make is elliptical including our base canopies. (our reserves are [], although several companies have reserves in testing and development which are are elliptical) sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

the canopy is designed to reduce risk of injury at freefly speeds. 256 is the max we have tested to but is definately an endorsement to go fun deploy over 170. we have found that above 184 collapsable pilot chutes do not always collapse properly and can cause a very high peak force on line stretch. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

jp, yes your post does come off as a personal attack. the cobalt was tested in 543 datalogged jumps. force vs time measurements were made with sensors on all risers, in addition to triaxial accelerometers, barometric & gps. see: http://extremefly.com/aerospace/DAS/dataloggers/ http://extremefly.com/aerospace/DAS/sensors/ i can safely say it is the most extensively tested canopy ever made and yes it is tested far in excess of tso requirements. it greatly exceeds requirements to be certified as a reserve. and yes we do manufacture reserves (under german tso) both skydiving & paragliding in fact more reserves than mains and in fact possibly more than any other company in europe. i broke my c6 on deployment with a saber 135 as have many people. premature deployments happen, if you freefly deployments above 120 happen. if you are going to freefly you should want a canopy that reduces the risk of injury in a high speed deployment by being designed for softer openings at high speed. the cobalt was the first and only canopy designed and tested to do so. we are not lulling anyone into a false sense of security just the opposite. ps. if your reply has the same tone as your original post do not expect a reply. sincerely, daniel preston atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

went to purchase a bunch of cheap video cameras to be used on cargo test drops. there is always the chance that the cameras can be damaged so i didnt want to spend alot of money on them. i was expecting to have to buy some large older style camcorder but instead found the panasonic pv-gs50 they are under $500 and are about as small as camcorders get and come with a remote ! we will be puting them in the air next week and i will post how they work but so far i am quite happy about the find... is anyone else using this camera? sincerely, dan atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

to clarify: when we introduced the cobalt we tested and certified it to far higher speeds than any other canopy at the time. at 120mph any canopy from, 170sq' down does not need a larger pilot than a 24". in testing with dataloggers and load links to measure force vs time on opening we discovered that at higher speeds oversized pilots (as many rig manufacturers provide) make a huge difference in the peak force. i have seen stock rigs supplied with pilots from 28-32". if you are freeflying this is a mistake. we have jumped and recorded openings on cobalts at speeds up to 256 mph and with pilot chutes from 18" to 32" (every 2"). for maximum safety to freeflyers you should not use more than a 24" pilot with our canopies (and others). packing: nothing special: simply push nose to back and roll tail tight. body position: (i always deploy in a track) harness fly through opening and do not touch your risers. grabing your risers is a bad habit most of us get into from being beginers jumping slamers. pressure on the rear risers will cause the canopy to open quickly and grabing your risers will put uneven pressure on them during deployment. this may be unnoticable at light wing loadings but will become more of an issue at higher wing loadings. balancing with your hands is not instintual, balancing with your hips/body to fly an opening will become instintual. as far as hard opening cobalts all i can say is that the instance is rare. as we advertise high speed openings, we are generally held to a higher standard than other companies, and out of the thousands we have produced i can count the number of canopies returned for hard openings on my fingers. sincerely, daniel preston atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

the delta wing has a male tapered plug that inserts into the rigid back pack area. it is held in place by a spring lock pin. a manual release cable unlocks the pin allowing the wing to completely release. as it does so a static line cable deploys a small parachute within the wing to allow it to fall at a safe rate. the spring will also give if over stressed thus allowing the wing to jetison. alban did a very nice design. Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

if you have the money, this is absolutely the camera to go with: the A-Minima made by Aaton Sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

nearly identical airfoils. Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

i didnt read the complete thread so i hope this is not redundant. novas were investigated by greg yarbonet (invented the slider). he found the airfoil to be less than ideal and the design was made worse by any sewing inaccuracies. he also was involved in testing the ill fated crossfire and told us both had very similar problems. i have a bunch...but would not jump them... dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

you can not paint on zp due to the silicone coating. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

yes, that rig is an omega. i grabbed that rig simply to put the wing on and adjust the harness. note the harness is not yet adjusted in the pictures. the wing is sitting too high on my back. if you look very carefully you will notice a tiny yellow > mark on the wing. this point must be aligned with your center of gravity. you can check this by lying on a board with fulcrum. the wing is 2 pieces, a tapered locking joint attaches the delta wing to the rigid backpack for the rig. the delta wing can be manually released or will release automatically if over stressed. unlike a wingsuit, you are not the wing. here you are hanging under the wing and control is via shifting your center of gravity. grabbing the handles on the underside you can shift the entire wing up or down on your back a few inches. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

oh, btw felix was jumping our main and reserve canopies when he crossed the english channel.... we custom sewed the main with redbull graphics. Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)