Bolas

You're naive if you think the world stops for you to set up and run a computer simulation every time something goes wrong and you need to understand why. Hence why it's done beforehand to minimize the chances. Then it's simply a matter of determing what the differences between the computer model and the real thing to determine what the issue is. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

I bet Boeing and Northrop-Grumman are just falling over themselves recruiting entry level engineers out of MacDonalds, KFC and Wendy's. I said first jobs, not that they should be immediate stepping stones to engineering positions. Obviously they'd need to also work at that plant in a much lesser capacity and work their way up. Yes, because the way we did things 1000 years ago should never change with the times. Seems to be the same general argument some use for religion. In this age of technology, so many careers could be made more accessible to more people if they'd drop some of the arbitrary requirements and rethink what exactly is needed. Additionally, there are many people in careers managing and making decisions that effect people doing jobs they've never even done. Whereas if they had some experience doing that job they'd make much better decisions or at least know how flawed the data they are basing the decisions on usually is. There's nothing wrong with someone getting educated just because they want it, but the problem is more and more jobs (even low paying ones) are requiring college degrees. Going $50-$100K in debt to get a job that may pay $35K just doesn't make much sense, does it? Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Indeed they may have. And if they did their lack of an actual education will be noticed shortly after getting their first job if not during interviews. A college degree means much more that just getting a piece of paper. It shows the person has the stick-to-it-iveness to finish something they started. I can tell you first hand that en engineering degree is, as Jakee put it, not just hard...it's damn hard. On the job experience is irreplacable, but so is technical education. They compliment each other in ways so that somebody who has both is much farther ahead than somebody with only one of the qualifications. If I need to hire somebody to bring into an engineering firm to train to be a go-to guy for a particular subject who do you think will be the best choice...the guy with the BSME, or one of the two dozen applicants with a high school diploma and 10 years erecting buildings, bridges, etc? My money's one the college grad every time. If you're training them anyways, one of the guys with actual experience might be a better option as you could pay them less to start and they could go to classes as needed. Give me someone with proven job experience over someone with some letters after their name any day.

Make up your mind - a few posts ago you wanted engineers to have "PE" after their name. That wasn't me. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

I remember back on MySpace there was a bulletin for coming up with ones porn, dog, robot, etc. name. Some of the pieces of info used: Mothers maiden name Home town Elementary School First Pet name Birth month Birth day Birth year Now what else asks for this sort of info? Oh, that's right, forgotten password reset questions for all manner of systems. I was amazed I didn't see social security digits asked for. "Get your dumbass name. It's the first 3 digits of your social security your bank PIN your favorite color, the next 2 of your SS and then the last 4 in reverse order followed by the word ASS." Social engineering. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Indeed they may have. And if they did their lack of an actual education will be noticed shortly after getting their first job if not during interviews. A college degree means much more that just getting a piece of paper. It shows the person has the stick-to-it-iveness to finish something they started. I can tell you first hand that en engineering degree is, as Jakee put it, not just hard...it's damn hard. On the job experience is irreplacable, but so is technical education. They compliment each other in ways so that somebody who has both is much farther ahead than somebody with only one of the qualifications. If I need to hire somebody to bring into an engineering firm to train to be a go-to guy for a particular subject who do you think will be the best choice...the guy with the BSME, or one of the two dozen applicants with a high school diploma and 10 years erecting buildings, bridges, etc? My money's one the college grad every time. If you're training them anyways, one of the guys with actual experience might be a better option as you could pay them less to start and they could go to classes as needed. Give me someone with proven job experience over someone with some letters after their name any day.

What kinda shit DO ya get? None.... thats the problem... duuuude my computer is boring....no crap that I can go dig thru the registry for... no downloading special tools.. to remove crp off the puter... I mean shit... it really sucks... everything works all the time [pretentious voice]That can't possibly be a Windows machine, you must be on a Mac. [/pretentious voice] Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Sorry to "Lucky" it but my interent was out for a bit today. Indeed they may have. And if they did their lack of an actual education will be noticed shortly after getting their first job if not during interviews. A college degree means much more that just getting a piece of paper. It shows the person has the stick-to-it-iveness to finish something they started. I can tell you first hand that en engineering degree is, as Jakee put it, not just hard...it's damn hard. On the job experience is irreplacable, but so is technical education. They compliment each other in ways so that somebody who has both is much farther ahead than somebody with only one of the qualifications. If I need to hire somebody to bring into an engineering firm to train to be a go-to guy for a particular subject who do you think will be the best choice...the guy with the BSME, or one of the two dozen applicants with a high school diploma and 10 years erecting buildings, bridges, etc? My money's one the college grad every time. If you're training them anyways, one of the guys with actual experience might be a better option as you could pay them less to start and they could go to classes as needed. Give me someone with proven job experience over someone with some letters after their name any day.

Your example equates to job experience, not a diploma. A better example would be 2 jumpers, one has their coach rating. Nothing more is known, who is the better jumper? I'd say the data is inconclusive and would want to know more before deciding. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

2 points: 1. Depending on how long one went to school and how much debt they accumulated doing it, their "high paying job" might not be so much after the loan payments start hitting. 2. I think food service and retail are fine first jobs and can really teach people not only basic work skills, but humility and understanding as well. While for some career choices, college does make sense and pays off, but for others the degree can be a serious financial liability. We had the housing bubble, soon we'll have the education bubble, in part due to the "litmus test" hiring practice mentality of degrees these daya. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

It's not a matter of not trusting, it's a matter of not automatically trusting at least without further info. As said above: My point is simply if all you know about a person is they have a degree, until more is known, nothing more, be it positive or negative, should be automatically inferred. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Workers tend to change companies alot as is, so they'd be getting new perspectives. Your skydiving example proves my point. That was a real world inspired change that eventually led to changing the way people were taught. While changes do come out of academia, moreso probably come from companies and sponsored R&D. For too long college has been pretty much the defacto thing to do to get a job. I think people are starting to wake up to the fact that for some career options, it's simply an uneeded expense/debt, at least to start a career with. It's probably just as screwed up as primary education, but it's impact is far greater considering the expense. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

This seems to be your main point. From my perspective, your point pertains to a minimal percentage of college graduates, therefore making your main point rather moot. Do you have any evidence to suggest a large/r percentage of college students graduated via the means you suggest? At least you admit that it does occur, most have seem to simply try to ignore that. My point is simply if all you know about a person is they have a degree, until more is known, nothing more, be it positive or negative, should be automatically inferred. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

From what I've experienced in corporate america, process and big picture thinking just aren't that important to companies. I know mine have gotten me into trouble with management many a time. Fixed it. Alot of the mentoring is unteaching them things they were taught in the "tower" that just aren't real world applicable. Additionally they tend not to have just one mentor, but even so, how does that differ from just being clones of the profs they had in college, other than being more reality based? Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Or they may have simply lied, cheat, stole, defrauded, and/or BSed their way through. While the skills you listed are definitely valuable to employers, a candidate should not simply be assumed to have them just because they have a degree. The same thing happens in technical fields. For a while, certifications (particularly Microsoft and Cisco) were all the rage and companies were paying big $$$ for new hires with them as well as giving raises to existing staff and paying for their training. Technical schools started up saying they could train someone who knew nothing and get them their certs in 3 months. The test themselves asked lots of questions on bizarre stuff noone used just seemingly to make them harder but just succeeded in making them less relevant. These days the only people that tend to bother getting the certs are those that are own their own IT business, instructors, or consultants. We may start seeing the same with college degrees. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

A college degree simply means they (through some means) met the requirements to graduate. Anything additional, either positive or negative inferrences are simply that. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

I think the point she's trying to make is the degree really necessary to actually do the job or just simply a prerequisite to get it? What qualification would you prefer for the folks that design the planes you fly on and the bridges you drive over? Real world experience through mentorship and on the job training, which is what they get. Most new graduates don't become project leaders right away nor work solely by themselves designing planes and/or bridges. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

I think the point she's trying to make is the degree really necessary to actually do the job or just simply a prerequisite to get it? Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

If one were to do a 30K HALO and then backfly on a really hot day... Hmmm... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Fair enough. I'll take a different tactic. Winning a competition is not the same as getting a diploma. In a competition there's only one winner per group. While there is a valedictorian, all the others who meet the requirements "win" a diploma as well. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Please explain how you can cheat, lie, or BS and turn more points on a videoed skydive. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

You can cheat, BS, and/or lie and possibly get a degree. How would those enable you to win a 4 way comp? Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

That sounds like a there's a good story behind that.

When creating a poll you have to add "other." I cant answer those option you listed I need to click onto an "other" to contribute to the poll and there is no other option. Other isn't always necessary if the poll has categories for all possible options. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

If you land on your face, back, or butt every time, it's really only a matter of time. Practice your PLFs. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.