Fast

I hope you don't drink everyone else's beer then! I agree with what was said about not bringing beer, dropping it and running. The whole point is to work on friendships and learn more about the sport. At my dz for the most part we don't bag on students to buy beer. As a student the only beer worthy offense is dropping a ripcord or failure to hold on to it (most of us AFFIs catch them) at/after deployment. We even ask in our A License oral, "What do you do anytime you do something for the first time?" and explain the reasons behind the tradition. I really hate when people are bitchy about it just for the sake of some free beer. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Not tryin to pick on anyone at all. The point I was trying to make is that, your eyes looking at the ground are the most reliable instrument you have provided you can see the ground and that at least in my case, I trust them above all else. Jumping without an altimeter is just an advantage that I have cause I am willing to trust my eyes. (It lets me help out people in the plane who are unwilling to jump w/o one. That way they don't have to ride the plane down) Blue Ones! ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Spectators are very distracting! I have found that most AFF students tend to not have them around though which is a good thing. I would suggest that you have people wait to come out and watch you jump till after you know a bit more about what you are doing. At my dz, we keep them far enough away that they aren't a during jump distraction, but still. If you aren't skydiving a dropzone can be a really boring place. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I will expand on the "Call the DZ Direct" thing. If you are buying in the US you can check uspa.org to see if they are a USPA DZ. That is one thing you can do to see if the number you are calling isn't skyride. Even if they don't appear on the USPA site, pick a DZ who's actually address appears on their website. It will most likely be a non-800 non-866 number to call them. When you do call them, ask the address of the dropzone to ensure they are NOT skyride. Most DZ's will process a credit card over the phone and email/mail you a gift certificate. I know mine does that and most of the ones I know of do to. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Pretty hard to say what exactly you need based on what you have told us. The tone in your posts makes me feel like you are scared to skydive. If you are spending too much time thinking about that, you become incapable of learning. Think, deer in headlights. They just sit there and don't soak in the fact that the car is about to run them over. Maybe I'm wrong, don't know. You said you did some time in the tunnel but didn't tell us how that went. Did you do good in there? If you did then I think it might be helpful for you to sit down with an instructor and explain the things that you are so afraid of. You also have to understand two things, everyone is scared in the beginning. The instruction and training you get is designed to give you the confidence you need to move past that. Work it out with an instructor, what are the things that are bothering you. Build up some confidence that you can handle those situations. Secondly, everyone has to at some point come to terms with and accept that you can get seriously hurt or killed doing this. Everyone comes to accepting that in their own way, you need to find yours. If you can't- this sport just isn't for you. That said, I really hope you can succeed. Most of this stuff is just a matter of practicing the right things enough times but you still have to be able to think on your feet and make decisions on your own. You need to have the confidence to do that. I don't want to discourage you because you are clearly committed to doing this. Just sit down and work out the issues one at a time based on previous performance and what your instructors think you need to practice. You also have to trust that they are telling you the truth and know what they are doing. If you don't, find a dropzone where you can trust them. As for the money, nothing can really be done about that, if you run out, spend some of your "jumping" time working at the dropzone to earn some extra cash. I wish you luck! Do great! ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I have to agree with everyone who is saying to use your eyes. I have jumped without altimeters before. Mostly when other people forget to bring them or they have a problem on the plane. I don't need one. It makes me more comfortable if I do have one. I am not dependent on my audible mostly because I don't always remember to turn it on in the morning. That, as stupid as it sounds, has kept me from becoming reliant on it. We even have a skydiver at my dz that doesn't own an altimeter. He sold it back in the 70s for jump tickets and never bought another one, even after over 10,000 jumps. I am much more trusting of my eyes. If I can't see the ground because of clouds and I have lost altitude awareness its time to pull. I can also in that situation typically have a good idea based on how long we have been skydiving if I am at a "safe" pull altitude. I have made the mistake of waiting to come out of the bottom of them to pull before because I knew what the "base" was. It moved down about a 1000 feet and I didn't end up pulling till 2000. Altimeters are great but in most cases your eyes are much more reliable for judging between "keep skydiving" and "time to pull" altitudes. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I'm sure this advice is pretty spot on if she knows where you were doing the course. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

In the case of the DZ I teach at, we do two tandems and then a level 2 AFF with two instructors. The program in whole is slightly more expensive than doing straight AFF, but we don't feel comfortable sending them on with just one person when they have never experienced flight w/o a person strapped to them. This is supposed to be about making skydivers, not cash and we don't make any more money off tandem progression people than we do on straight AFF. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

For what it's worth- I think the one jumpmaster AFF stuff is a pretty shitty way to do it. In my opinion it's a way for the DZ to make more money and nothing else. It doesn't help the student learn. If the DZ is charging quite a bit less since it's only one jumpmaster then that is a different story, somehow I doubt that is the case. It looks to me like you did a Level 1 jump then a level 2 jump, and got stuck on level 3s. Is that correct? What were the learning objectives of each skydive? From the video that you showed (level 1 and 2???) on jump one and jump two you were backsliding quite a bit. You could have progressed to level 2 if everything other than that went perfect. I have kept people on level 1 before when the had horrible backsliding issues. Level 2, you would have done turns and forward flight in most AFF programs. If the backsliding wasn't sorted out by then, you would have just kept doing that. Why did you progress to a release dive if you were having so many problems? Why keep doing release dives if you are having that many problems? Also, just as an evaluation of this dropzones practices, doing one jumpmaster AFF dives with exits from the outside of the plane seems pretty illogical to me. It doesn't allow the instructor to maintain control of the student prior to, during and after exit as clearly shown in this video. The door on this plane looks plenty big enough to be doing 1 jumpmaster exits from the inside with two hands holding onto the student. Not to mention that front float exits are kinda hard to do, why would you subject a student to that. The exits that this video is showing have been pretty bad. The instructor, especially considering there is only one of them, isn't able to provide stability for you as shown I think, in the really far away video. That video person needs some retraining on how to exit with AFF students. I have found that when a student has a disorientating exit it makes it very hard to concentrate and learn for the rest of the skydive. If you really want to stick with skydiving, my honest suggestion to you would be that you demand a refund on any money that you have not yet spent on jumps. Go to another dropzone that does AFF and suck it up and start over with a first jump course and level 1. Explain them your situation and go from their. Sometimes it just comes down one instructing method not working for a person. I don't think the way this dropzone is running their AFF program is the best means to provide a positive learning situation for students. You might really not be cut out for skydiving, but it sure doesn't seem like they are giving you the best circumstances to learn in. At least that is what it looks like from those two videos that were posted. I reserve the right to change my mind about this dropzone if it comes out that those videos aren't standard practice or something. Not trying to knock them, but since we don't know who they are there is no point in not saying what I think isn't great about their program. Sorry if I offend anyone there! If they won't give you back the money that you have not spent because they are denying you service, report them to the better business association. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I work a regular job, 9-5 M-F, during the week and still am able to jump Friday nights, Saturday, Sunday and Monday nights. I am averaging about 400 a year. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

How about you relax a little. You clearly have me confused with someone else, your axe to grind is with some other dz, not mine. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I have managed to get 1 photo in the magazine since I started sending pictures. Sent in some really awesome stuff too. I don't bother anymore for the most part. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

There are dropzones within driving distance for both of you that keep jumping all winter, though students are generally only allowed to jump when the weather is nicest at those types of DZs. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I'm going to be unpopular here but it's one thing Mc to get hyper about an occasional off landing or rare cut-away main, but this sounds like nearly every load someone was on his property. That is wrong and inconsiderate. If the DZ is using his property as a landing, or run out area then either the DZ needs more property or more accurate jumpers. I am paying for my property and I'll not begrudge anyone to make the occasional shortcut across-but if you're in my woods every day I don't care if you're picking flowers for disadvantaged kids, I'm going to run you off. The fence is overkill but he's not all in the wrong. As I mentioned previously in this thread, the case that Kevin is talking about isn't an issue of using his property all the time. Maybe 1 or 2 people would land on the edge of it a weekend (average over a year) and that is considering hundreds of landings every weekend and the fact that his property is exactly up against our landing area. This particular fence has actually proven to increase the number of people landing on his property. They opt to land there over hitting the fence. The DZ doesn't need any more property, we have plenty of that and a plenty large landing area. This particular fence doesn't even surround his property, it doesn't do anything to prevent trespassing. It is about 100yds long on half of one side of his property line. All it does is make it harder to use one of our experienced landing areas. All things aside, we would tolerate the fence, it's the barbed wire that is going to get someone seriously hurt or do damage to someones gear if they end up long in the direction of the fence. Yes a lawyer told me we would have a reasonable claim and chance of getting the fence modified to have the barbed wire removed. Still a non-starter though $$. This person has probably already done property damage to our dropzone, but we have no way of proving that either. It sure is interesting all the conversation this has generated. The bottom line of it is that our DZ is still a very safe place to skydive and we have a pretty damn big landing area. This change affected maybe 5-10% of the experienced jumpers at our dropzone and all it means is they have to walk an extra minute or two back to the packing area which most people already did. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Agreed. It's supply and demand. There aren't any people anywhere who would be willing to show up at my DZ and pack tandems (pretty damn labor intensive hard work) for less than $10 a packjob. If there were, we would be using them! Tandem masters are few and far between and lets get the record straight. It costs between $15,000 and $25,000 to get the experience, equipment and training to be a tandem instructor. Add another $3000 to that if the guy tries to shoot video first. Both jobs require 500 jumps minimum + training. The argument that a skydiver is having fun while getting the experience doesn't make much sense either since most pilots are flying because they think it's really damn cool. If you don't, stop trying to fly airplanes for a living, you should enjoy what you do. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I was in no means trying to be offensive if you took it that way, just get frustrated sometimes with the difficulties of trying to balance the cost of services at our DZ with the cost of doing business and the prices that all our close competition is charging. None the less, yes someone, me, knows what all the numbers are and we do maintain break even pricing. It's the best we can do at this point. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

At my dropzone the jumper pays $23 per jump. A full plane of 23 jumpers costs $11 per slot, fuel at $5 per gallon is around $5.43 per jumper per load, pilot get $0.65 per jumper per load. This returns a gross margin to the DZ of $5.92 per jumper per jump or 25.7% from which the DZ pays overhead expenses. The breakeven load is $18 jumpers at $5 per gallon fuel. A DZO has to have the discipline to not fly fewer than the breakeven humber of jumpers on any fun jump load, or to mix tandems, students and fun jumpers on each load. It must be nice to have enough money to own your own planes. Those numbers are WAY off the mark in terms of what we have to pay to put a slot on the plane at my DZ. Things change when you have to lease a turbine. It's possible to operate that way when you have the capital up front to get started. The dz I am involved with has been in operation since the 60s and owns a cessna but has to lease a turbine. Were a club dz, so we aren't trying to turn a profit for anyone, but if we were to charge prices that got anywhere near what you do in profit, it would be high 20s for sure. The point in that is, when everyone else around you does own a plane, we have to opt to let the tandems pay for overhead so that all the experienced jumpers dont, uh.. jump ship. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Yeah, same here. We go from turbine to cessna in the winter and stay open for weekends. The jumping cuts down quite a bit, but there are some diehards! ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Jump prices for experienced skydivers at my dropzone don't turn a profit. They cover the cost of putting the plane in the air. That's it. Even if we were doing 100 times as many experienced skydiver slots as we do now, there would be no money left over afterwords to pay for all the extra shit that skydivers like to have. Buildings, bathrooms, etc, etc. I could do 100,000 experienced skydiver slots and not make any money. I could raise the prices on the experienced slots, but then people jump ship and go to other DZs. Lets face it, there is only so much money to go around for a skydiver. If prices go up they just jump less. Unless we are churning out the tandems, all the fancy shit the skydivers want doesn't happen. On the topic of credit card fees, yeah they suck. To the original poster, deal with it. Even if the dz doesn't appear to be charging a fee, they are. They just are screwing the person who pays cash too. I should restate that, the credit card companies are the ones screwing everyone else. If it wasn't for the fees, things would be so much cheaper. In some situations, the CC fee goes into things 3-4 times. Get hit at the "pay-at-the-pump" FBO, the FBO gets hit if they don't pay cash/check, the dz gets hit at the retail counter, the students get hit, every time we buy something more CC fees. Its all a big scam in the name of convenience. None the less at my DZ the CC fee cost is built into every slot, no matter how it is payed for. I really appreciate the people who pay with cash, I really do. I just can't take the gamble that I am not going to be busted for charging a Cash discount. So everyone has to pay it. The dropzone sure can't afford to eat the fees. Also, whoever said that the cost of CC fees is built into the assesment of tandem student prices is right. It is. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Thoughts... I agree with everyone else about the music. My DZ has typically not worried about that kind of stuff, but very recently we started looking into going with royalty free stuff. All the stink that people are making about it really makes me not want to deal with it. I don't want any of our editors getting in trouble. I also really like what you did with the student exiting at the end and having that transition into the logo graphic. That was really good work! Also want to second the "it might be too long" comment. I would limit any "promo" material to 30-90 seconds. If you go much longer than that people will lose interest because really, they just want to see themselves. Sell the sport and sell the DZ, but don't do it for too long or your message will be lost on deaf ears / blind eyes. There were a couple of clips that it looked like you might be able to take some of the shake out of them, if you know how to do that. Or maybe shorten the clip and slow it down a little bit so it's less jerky. Only other things I can think about come from a DZO standpoint. Some of the clips show things that are questionable jumping conditions. At my DZ that type of thing isn't allowed to be given to wuffos. They don't know it's not ok and who knows where that video will end up. I don't want video from my dz showing up at a FSDO with my DZ name plastered all over it. Then having to explain why my plane is diving and people are jumping anywhere within miles of clouds. Legal or not isn't the point, just don't like to leave anything to interpretation. That might be paranoid and your DZO might not care, but who knows. Only other thing is that at our DZ, people aren't allowed to do things like that. The primary reason for that is when the customer takes it home and watches it and then watches their friends, we don't want people to be upset that their video isn't as good as their friends. We expect all our editors to follow the same flow. No one is allowed to go overboard and everyone must meet minimum standards. We have been meaning to make a new promo clip for our videos since we got rid of the one that we used to have (looked very 80s) but just haven't yet, so no one can have one. It might be helpful to get together with some more of your video brethren and make something everyone likes and uses. Overall though, I think you did a pretty good job especially for a "first" edit job!

I have an RSX-S that is doing pretty well. I had to have the engine replaced (no cost to me, covered under warranty) after a shop put it back together poorly after a car accident (not my fault, stupid delivery truck pulling into traffic) but I blame that on the shoddy repair shop work not Honda. I would buy another one in a heartbeat. Honda/Acura makes some seriously reliable cars! ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

That's awesome. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Like I said, this guy is trolling. It really is some kind of assholish way to try and make a point. Certainly doesn't garner any respect in my book. I don't think anyone has really come out and specifically said the idea won't work Just that it's not really a good one and can lead to some serious problems. I dunno exactly what the original poster is trying to prove but he sure as hell isn't doing a good job of it. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

It is what we expect of our students at my dropzone. They have to get two things right follow hand signals and pull at the right altitude. That's what we consider "everything." We don't pass students that don't initiate the pull process. If they do nothing and burn through student pull altitude and ignore pull signals they go up to try it again. If they need some help finding the handle that's a whole different story. The primary thing we require is altitude awareness. If they don't realize it's time to pull when that is the only task they have, how could they possibly do it with other stuff going on. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Evidently he thinks it is. Now who do you think made him feel he needed to spend the money and time to put it up? Like I said, I have never seen a “Farmer McNasty” that was not created by the very people who complain about him. I am willing to bet it was not an over night knee jerk reaction on his part. It probably took some time before he felt the need to act. Has anyone approached this guy and in a clam manner tried to work out something? Sparky Yes, people have approached him. It's not the jumpers faults. We know why he is all pissed off but I can't comment on it in an open forum. It primarily has to do with issues with the guys personal life making him a grumpy dude. We didn't really even land on his property that often. Couple times a month which isn't bad considering he is right next to our landing area. A couple of times since I have been jumping an ambulance had to use his driveway. The airport and dropzone both existed before he moved in. FWIW, we could probably go to court to try and have the fence taken down but that costs money, something we don't really have. What we have done is taken steps to try and keep people from being hurt. Limited who is allowed to land in the area near the fence and ensuring that visitors are properly warned. The guy has a lot of problems and he is taking it out on everyone around him. He calls the cops about all kinds of crazy stuff, really just sucks. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka