downwardspiral

Bangkok? Or somewhere further south? /Marg I was thinking Phuket. And I agree with Amazon...why no bathing suit pics or at least a pic of you?

I'm thinking Thailand but I would never credit Obama with such a positive change in my life. www.FourWheelerHB.com

Why do I have an image of him in the library feverishly flipping pages of some law book? www.FourWheelerHB.com

yup...I'm investing in Top Ramen www.FourWheelerHB.com

an uncurrent fixed wing pilot getting in a helicopter? No thanks....I'll watch from the hangar. www.FourWheelerHB.com

I didn't miss the point. You displayed a lack of caring about one of your rights being taken away in that post while showing passion and anger over "Congress pissing all over the 4th Amendment." And you ask in this very thread...."So where are all the defenders of the 2nd?? They get very up in arms (pun) about changes and laws connected to it." As if to separate yourself from them. You drew a very specific line and when it's thrown back in your face, you call it oneupmenship and refference a school yard play ground. I'm sorry to say you are part of the very problem you despise good sir. I am passionate about the 2nd Amendment not only for my own securtiy but because one of the main intents of the Amendment was protection from an oppressive government. And if you don't think our government is oppressive now, you'd have to be dishonest to think it's not heading that way. That being said I'm very much with you on the 4th Amendment or any Amendment for that matter. My question is...what do we do about it? The kneejerk answer for me is to stop supporting the parties who are perpetrating such opprression. Maybe we need to bring back the Anti-Federalist party. www.FourWheelerHB.com

what happened? www.FourWheelerHB.com

As crimes go, that's fucking brilliant! www.FourWheelerHB.com

Thomas Paine, Common Sense Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher. Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other law-giver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expence and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others. www.FourWheelerHB.com

Sorry to say that I was expecting this to be the first response. People care more about what Rev Wright did or didn't say and will go on about it passionately for weeks on end. But when it comes to removing one of our basic American rights they are flippant. Go back and look up the McCarthy era again. This allows the same thing to happen, and worse. It may not impact you today but it will down the line. It's a slippery slope. LOL flippant? Pot calling the kettle black? Perhaps you'll recall posting this..... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3323937;#3323937 www.FourWheelerHB.com

for the same reason Obama flew over to Iraq to stall the American pull out agreement until he's President. www.FourWheelerHB.com

Actually this thread explains a lot about his beliefs regarding 9/11. And what's wrong with being a sceptic you fog horn?! www.FourWheelerHB.com

screw that! I'M the ONE who pulled old quotes out of our country's history only to further confuse what our founding fathers meant by the 2nd Amendment! www.FourWheelerHB.com

Gene Simmons ain't all that pretty either. www.FourWheelerHB.com

Intelligence and education are most certainly two different things, and insecurity is unrelated to either. Common sense can also prove quite lucrative, but bragging about it demonstrates insecurity independent of the presence or absence of said "street smarts." Blues, Dave Oh kinda like the old " I may have a small penis but I can lick my eyebrows" addage? www.FourWheelerHB.com

lol my grampa told me to become a mortician because there will always be dead people. www.FourWheelerHB.com

I wasn't disputing the value of higher education nor am I against it. However, his generalization that one who isn't highly educated yet see's himself/herself as having common sense or street smarts is simply insecure. Intelligence and education are two different things. www.FourWheelerHB.com

What are they going to do... send him back to Iraq???? not before they water board him. www.FourWheelerHB.com

Say hi to the FBI for me. www.FourWheelerHB.com

well at least that's honest.

But did you ever use the quote "I'm not very educated, but I have COMMON SENSE - or I am STREET SMART" another quote from the insecure those are my favorites - a lot like assuming someone athletic or attractive can't also be smart Have you ever met someone who was street smart. I have? He makes $100,000 per year (legally) working 2 days per week and he's a highschool drop out who grew up in the barrio. Please generalize more. www.FourWheelerHB.com

Or how would you request $1 million earmarked to the company who just gave your wife a $190,000 raise? www.FourWheelerHB.com

That's why I added 'for us' www.FourWheelerHB.com

For us it's our constitution. Must be.... -natural born citizen -at least 35 years of age -resident withing US for at least 14 years. www.FourWheelerHB.com

Ok then I'll site our fore fathers... Samuel Adams 1769: to the right of having and using arms for self-preservation and defence." These he calls "auxiliary subordinate rights, which serve principally as barriers to protect and maintain inviolate the three great and primary rights of personal security, personal liberty and private property": And that of having arms for their defence he tells us is "a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression."--How little do those persons attend to the rights of the constitution, if they know anything about them, who find fault with a late vote of this town, calling upon the inhabitants to provide themselves with arms for their defence at any time; but more especially, when they had reason to fear, there would be a necessity of the means of self preservation against the violence of oppression.--Every one knows that the exercise of the military power is forever dangerous to civil rights; and we have had recent instances of violences that have been offer'd to private subjects, and the last week, even to a magistrate in the execution of his office!--Such violences are no more than might have been expected from military troops: A power, which is apt enough at all times to take a wanton lead, even when in the midst of civil society; but more especially so, when they are led to believe that they are become necessary, to awe a spirit of rebellion, and preserve peace and good order. But there are some persons, who would, if possibly they could, perswade the people never to make use of their constitutional rights or terrify them from doing it. No wonder that a resolution of this town to keep arms for its own defence, should be represented as having at bottom a secret intention to oppose the landing of the King's troops: when those very persons, who gave it this colouring, had before represented the peoples petitioning their Sovereign, as proceeding from a factious and rebellious spirit; and would now insinuate that there is an impropriety in their addressing even a plantation Governor upon public business--Such are the times we are fallen into http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch3s4.html Thomas Jefferson to James Madison 1787: I will now add what I do not like. First the omission of a bill of rights providing clearly and without the aid of sophisms for freedom of religion, freedom of the press, protection against standing armies, restriction against monopolies, the eternal and unremitting force of the habeas corpus laws, and trials by jury in all matters of fact triable by the laws of the land and not by the law of Nations. http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch14s30.html Alexander Hamilton 1788: I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colourable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power. They might urge with a semblance of reason, that the constitution ought not to be charged with the absurdity of providing against the abuse of an authority, which was not given, and that the provision against restraining the liberty of the press afforded a clear implication, that a power to prescribe proper regulations concerning it, was intended to be vested in the national government. This may serve as a specimen of the numerous handles which would be given to the doctrine of constructive powers, by the indulgence of an injudicious zeal for bills of rights. http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch14s38.html Virginia Ratifying Convention, Proposed Amendments to the Constitution 1788 17th. That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided, as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch14s43.html Interesting stuff www.FourWheelerHB.com