RogerRamjet

God that was fun! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

In the old days, it was the largest event anywhere. I believe the 1975 meet had over 100 10 way speed teams, something over 50 16 way teams, and 30 something 20 way teams. What kind of draw is there today? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 80 pound break cord is the old-school military way. Most modern PC-assist systems use Velcro. However, I never liked any version of PC-assist, because it allows students too much time to back loop, barrel roll, etc. and interfer with deployment. If you insist on using static-lines, then stick with direct-bag as that has the widest margin of error. Widest margin of error.... Agreed and the very reason the military uses it. The jumper can be in pretty much any position and the system still deploys. I was the rigger at Z-Hills for two years in 1973-74 where we used the direct bag T-10 system. At the time, we were one of the busiest (if not the busiest) student training DZ's in the world. I made my entire living packing T-10's back then. We had 0 (zero) malfunctions during that time on static line drops from our 180, 182, and sometimes our C-47. I jumped there regularly for the rest of my 8 year career and to my knowledge they never had a S/L malfunction. Not saying it's 100%, but it's a lot closer than PC assist is. In fact, the only S/L (gear related) problem I remember happening there was when the type-8 webbing securing the D-Ring to the pilot's seat broke and the static line followed the student (me) out of the plane.... The jump master (who changed his method of dropping S/L after that to holding a byte of the static line) clearly saw me going for the reserve handle when the main finally deployed on it's own. He cleared me for freefall on my next jump :) ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Don't you worry, I predict you will see me and Janet again! We had a great time visiting. I was surprised that Janet (my wife who didn't know me when I was jumping) enjoyed herself so much. We will be visiting again... Janet still says I won't be making another jump, but you never know :) ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I should have made it a priority to meet you Wendy, after hanging out in this thread and going to the boogie, I feel like I know you. I met a lot of very happy skydivers at the boogie, seems like a well planned, well organized event to me. Well done! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Yeah, I've heard it several ways from him and others. I was jumping in Z-Hills when it happened. Pat Moore who had 2000 jumps at the time was there and tells a somewhat different story. Pat was the weather man at the same station Arch worked at. He had a spinning (Cloud) opening. Cutaway, but one capewell (shot and a half) hung up. He didn't even try to clear the other riser and went directly silver. The (round) reserve entangled with the main. According to Pat, a little less than half the main was inflated and part of the reserve. Arch hit at about (estimated by Pat) 45 mph through an orange tree. He had a number of broken bones, but no internal injuries other than bruised organs. He told the station (and everyone else) that he'd gone in at 120mph with a "ball of garbage streaming behind" not slowing him down at all. When Pat heard him tell the station manager that he planned to go on the air a tell that same story, Pat told the manager the real story. The manager told Arch not to do the story. Arch did anyway and was fired the next day. It had nothing to do with insurance as the above link would have you think. I met Arch in 1973 and according to his log book he had about 400 jumps to my 200. On jumps with him, he had trouble falling stable and would wobble all over the place (he usually had to go base). About a year later, he shows up, makes a couple of jumps and asked me to sign his log book. I say great and go to sign jump number 927??? I say, Arch where have you been jumping at to which he replies, just here at Z-Hills... I lived in the loft at the time, packing and jumping so I knew that was bull.. He still had trouble with basic flight skills... End of rant... I actually like him fine, he just doesn't live in the same reality that I do. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Went to the Keys Boogie last weekend, saw Carl there. Also saw Scotty Carbone and Roger Ponze niether of whom I'd seen in 24 years. It can be a small world after all... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Wow, Arch's story just keeps getting better, now it's a baglock... oh well, whatever sells... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Ok, here is a link to the photo's I took: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gallery/imageFolio.cgi?direct=Personal_Galleries/RogerRamjet/Keys_Boogie Enjoy! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Good point. I would think most aircraft would have a maximum flaps extended speed. Also, on the older aircraft mentioned above such as DC-3's and Lockheed Loadstars, they had rearward retracting landing gear which also has a maximum extended speed. You would allways want to extend the landing gear on these type aircraft to drop jumpers because of moving the 500lbs of gear 6 feet forward (helps the CG of the aircraft when all the jumpers crowd to the back for exit). Someone else mentioned serious relative work. Consider that slowing the aircraft allows the last person out on a large load to be that much closer to the base. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Just got back tonight. Wow, did they have a great day for jumping today! Steady breeze, two great jump planes and a helicopter to boot! I went mostly to hook up with Scotty Carbone whom I hadn't seen in about 26 years! He was there and gave me the biggest bear hug, Tammi too though I'd never met her. So great to see him alive and with a great girl too! My wife and I had maybe the best hamburgers we've ever had (but don't tell Scotty that)... Carl Daugherty was also there, hadn't seen him in as long, so bonus number 1! Then ran into Roger Ponze (not sure of the spelling), jumped with him around 77 (that's 1977 to you younger jumpers :)..) at Z-hills. Bonus number 2! Met many other jumpers while I was there too. One thing that hasn't changed over the years, jumpers are good people! Took some good shots I think and even ventured out to the landing area and shot some landings. I'll post my stuff as soon as I scan it in. Wow, great to see the jumpers and jumping up close again. Almost makes me want to re-join the fun. When we left today, the beach loads were just taking off. I'm sure everyone had a great jump into a wonderful beach to cap off the day! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Hi Shlomo, Thanks for adding that for Bill. I know of the device, but have never researched to see who invented it. I was able to quote the hand deploy and 3-ring release because I was working for Bill when those items were invented. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Perhaps... But, if you look at the fatality database and extract the canopy incidents alone, and look at the experience levels, you will see they are across the board from 200 to over 7000 jumps. What this seems to mean to me is that the canopies are so high performance now, that it only takes a very slight lapse of attention or judgment to kill yourself. When the squares available were Para-Planes, Strato-Stars and such, you could certainly still kill yourself, but it took a lot more input to the controls for a lot longer time than it does now. This means (IMHO) that even the best of the current should be paying attention all the time and anyone else should be taking advantage of canopy control courses if a HP canopy is over your head and particularly if HP landings are something you want to be doing. Those two things are just to save your own life, if you're flying in the air with other HP canopy pilots, you have traffic issues to deal with also. I gave a pre-meet canopy safety talk to all the square canopy pilots at the 1975 Thanksgiving meet in Z-Hills because of a nearly fatal incident involving a spinning square malfunction (and because I had the most square and the most Strato-Star jumps on the drop zone at the time). The person was hurt, but survived the Strato-Star spin into the ground. The only thing talked about concerning landings was that they should be into the wind. If I were to give the same sort of talk today, I think it would be a totally different speech (though I would no longer be the person to choose for such a thing). Each time I read one of these reports, it seems I see phrases like "not known to be a radical pilot" or "was an extremely accomplished canopy pilot", etc. Flying these newer highly loaded canopies leaves no room for complacency or casual attention. I think I know why Bill Booth feels the way he does. Out of his shop came the two most life saving developments for skydiving after the parachute, the hand deploy (whatever flavor it is now) and the 3-ring release system. These were to largely eliminate the types of fatalities that were most prevalent at the time. I think he's quite frustrated that skydivers have found a new way to kill themselves under open canopies. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

It's so interesting reading this 30 years from current (well 24 anyway). When I started jumping (1973), squares were considered extreamly unreliable and cheapo rounds (28 foot navy C-9s mostly) and Paracomanders were the norm. Then Papellon's showed up and some others too. The squares at the time were the Para-Plane and the Original Foil. The Para-Plane and Para-Cloud had to be packed for either sub-terminal or terminal deployment. Pack it for Terminal and deploy on a hop&pop and it probably bag locks. Pack if for sub-terminal and take it terminal and go to the hospital. They were considered dangerous then (and it seems they have become dangerous again based on the fatality database). The introduction of the Strato-Star changed all that. I have 650 Stato-Star jumps with 0 malfunctions. In fact, I believe a properly maintained and packed Strato-Star would open everytime. FLARE: Yes, you should flare the PC at between 6 and 10 feet though it's not much, it's something. It's also interesting to note that accuracy done with these canopies was DOWN WIND. Capewells: There were three types. 2 Shots on most static line (x military) gear. Shot and a half, the most common type in use. And 1-shots which I used. The 1-shot capewell was not as scary as some think. First, you had to pull the cover all the way down for release, not just open (they would come about 1/3 of the way down and stop if you didn't keep pulling. I would take new 1-shot covers and bend the spring slightly to increase the amount of tension so they would not move without help. They worked great for me. I was working for Bill Booth when he came up with the 3-Ring system. I didn''t change to it (though I would have on my next rig purchase, just never bought another one). To me, the 3-Ring only offered two advantages over the one-shots. 1) One handle fires both sides. 2) (this is the biggest advantage over any other system at the time) After cutaway, only a nice smooth round ring remains on the harness, very hard to catch a reserve pilot chute on that! The Para-Commander was a great canopy for it's time, but the squares that came along, starting with the Strato-Star, made it obsolete allmost overnight. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Until this year... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

QAC Snaps, not everyone was as lucky as you with those things! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

1) what made you start jumping / how you became interested? My parents took me to an air show when I was 6 where the (now defunct) Navy Shooting Stars did their demo jumps. I made chutes from sheets, got hold of a 24' reserve a friends dad brought home from WW2 and finally made my first jump at Z-Hills in 1973 (not with the sheet or WW2 reserve). 2) How long have you been jumping? How many jumps do you have? I jumped for 8 years from 1973 through 1980. I made 1000 jumps in that time. 3)What method of training did you do? Static line, nothing else was available at Z-Hills then. There were a few dropzones doing "buddy jumps" which would be AFF today. 4) how has skydiving changed you life? In the same ways as most other replies here, some life long friends, great experiences, etc. I worked for Bill Booth for the first 100+ Wonderhogs and was therefor directly involved with helping to make the sport safer (hand deploy, 3-ring, etc.). Downside Not asked, but there are downsides too. Losing friends to skydiving. If you jump long enough, you will lose a friend or someone you've met to skydiving. I have lost a few and it still happens that someone is killed that I knew even though I've been out of the sport for so many years (Roger Nelson most recently) . I wouldn't trade those times for anything though! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

The kind that hasn't jumped in 24 years :) ... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I have a couple of questions. 1) If I come down just to mingle and am not staying for dinner or jumping, is a registration required? 2) If the answer to #1 is yes, is there a limit to the registrations or a time limit to get registered? My primary reason to come down would be to meet a few people from the forum and to hook up with Scotty Carbone who I haven't seen in about 25 years... Thanks! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

How about jumps from non-dropzone DC-3s? Around 1974, a bunch of us from Z-Hills jumped into the St. Pete/Clearwater Air Show as part of the show. The plane used was a Florida Airways DC-3 (they had 727's too, but we couldn't get that one to happen). They removed the last 5 rows of seats and the door for us. The catch was, due to their airline rules, the plane had to be crewed by Florida Airways personnel. Therefore, we had a Florida Airways Pilot and Co-Pilot AND two Florida Airways flight attendants (Called stewardesses back then). We had cokes served on the way up! The flight attendants would not venture past the last installed row of seats and had never been on a flight with no door before. It was the first time I jumped into an air show and got to watch the Blue Angles from close up :) Can't imaging anything like that ever happening these days... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

350 Round jumps 650 Square jumps No injuries... well, I guess I strained an ankle once on a flat footed landing between two cars in an asphalt lot, but it didn't keep me grounded. One thing different then vs. now, low hook turns/swooping hadn't been invented yet and the highest performance canopies were the Strato Star or Para-Plane. I jumped a C-9 28' round until I had a line-over. Stood up my 26' Navy Conical. Jumped about every square available at the time, Para-Plane, Cloud, Sled (the original), new Sled, 7-Cell, and Strato Star. Even took a ride up on a 360' cargo square behind a truck at Z-hills. Landing that was more of "how to get it down" than landing soft. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Okey dockey... http://www.chesapeake.net/~fireman/_borders/Straw.jpg ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Unless intentional cutaways have changed since I did mine, you take three parachutes.... I was certainly glad that when it came time to cutaway from a real mal, I had done two intentional cutaways previously. Highly recommended. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Hmmm, I think I felt just as invincible as you think you are now. I only remember one or two jumpers from then that I thought were sure to die in the sport becuase they were low pull artists (they did). Equipment might be safer, but skydivers are still killing themselves at the same rate as the '70s, it's just mostly under open canopies now... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Hmmm, with enough volocity relative to the object being struck, the light weight object can still do damage. Ever seen the picture of the piece of straw driven partway through a tree by a hurricane? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519