RogerRamjet

Hmmm, I'm an "old fart" and saw my first closing pin in 1977 and a curved closing pin in 1978/79. Maybe you're aging slower than me? It all seems to find it's way into accessories one way or the other. Remember Koch release belt buckles, three ring belt buckles, etc.? Never gave any thought to wearing one as jewelry though and certainly wouldn't wear any while jumping... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I would just like to add my recommendation to go to a dropzone and see how things really are. I spent 6 months at Z-Hills in 1973 watching because the legal age was 21 then and I was 20. While my older brother jumped all that time, I watched, asked questions, and learned everything I could. I even got my riggers license, bought all my own gear, and sat through several 1st jump courses. Then, on July 1st, 1973 they lowered the legal age to 18. It just happened to be a Sunday and I just happened to make my first jump that same day. I learned one more lesson that day, that I knew nothing about skydiving.... As for the forum responses, etc. You are probably of the same personality type as the rest of us who are drawn to this type of sport. I am not surprised at the variety of answers you have received here, but neither should you be, nor should you leave. Welcome! Speak some, listen a lot, get out and make that jump as soon as you can. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

This is a very interesting thread for me since I made the first "Throw out" (it was called hand deploy back then) jump for Bill. As for reaching back and grabbing the bridle to pull the pin with the bridle, I once jumped a test throw out pilot chute that was too small and wound up in tow. I did exactly what you did, reached back and pulled it out. I've never jumped a pull out, but it seems to defeat the very purpose of the throw out in that you can't really extend it all the way to the side. The original hand-deploy pilot chutes had a PVC orange handle at the apex and the bridle was velcroed from the belly band to the side flap of the container where it went under, then a loop of the bridle was used to secure the container (no pins yet). We were already using this closing method with Booth's exterior spring loaded pilot chute, so very little modification was needed for the new system. I usually extended the pilot chute out to my normal falling position, hesitating for just a second so anyone above could see I was about to release. In 700 jumps, zero hesitations, zero out of sequence deployments, etc. I did jump a few pin closed systems too, some with nybril pins, some with steel (even before curved). I really liked the original the best though, seemed like less to go wrong to me. If I return to jumping soon, it will be throw out for me. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

102,800 feet. Joe Kittenger ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Hi Tim, Wow, that is unusually bad luck for you, I did not know you had seen that many. I was on the dropzone for 4, but thankfully only witnessed one. That was enough, don't need to see it again. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Did you receive a reply yet? I doubt serial numbers 1 and 2 would be sold to the public. I don't think most manufacturers of anything start sales with serial 001 anyway. I had the first Strato-Star in Florida and I'm pretty sure the serial number was a very long number (and not all zero's in front either). (edited due to the fact that I can't spell) ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

If you motorcycle with enough friends you will know someone who dies. If you scuba with enough friends you will know someone who dies. If you make friends, you will know someone who dies. We just all have a tight knit community here - and that makes it more personal, doesn't it... I never scuba dived but I rode with a large group of sport bike riders for 13 years and never knew anyone who died, I have been a competative water-skier since 1989 and never knew anyone who died, I was a skydiver for 8 years and knew 5 people who died.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Actually, that is only true if the Jesus string is attached to the reserve ripcord, if attached to the MLW like Jim's, no slack was required. The guys at Z-Hills that had them had the MLW attached type. The reasoning was that if any of the malfunction or reserve entangled with the reserve ripcord, they didn't want it permenently attached to them... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Gary was/is a very smart man, I always liked him. Location: North America/United States/Florida City: Raeford, NC Well, which is it, Florida or NC? I think I know you... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

LOL, I can relate to that. I worked packing T-10 student rigs, reserves, and putting out students for jump tickets. In 74, Z-hills was averaging 40 students a weekend (not including returning students) in the summer so I had plenty of credit if not always enough time to spend it :) You'd have to define a couple of those terms; like "a while back" and "SDH" for me to answer that one. I jumped from 73 to 80. Mostly at Z-Hills to begin with, but also Deland and the Sod Farm in central Florida. Then I moved to Miami for about a year to build the first 120 or so Wonderhogs for Booth. Then I moved back to Z-Hills to build rigs for Bill Buchman at which time we went to Aurora Ill. for a summer where I jumped there and at Hinkley quite a bit. We did side trips to Sturgis MI., South Bend, IN., and even went to the Richmond Boogie to jump in the Air Show that year. Also jumped at Downsville, MD., and Woodbine MD. (where I was 8th in their first ever 8 man err person). Moved back to Z-Hills and continued to build rigs for Buchman for a while, then built my own rigs for about 8 months before just jumping again. Your earlier pictures of yourself do look familier, but so much time has passed, I just don't know. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Really? Half the time? I'd of gotten rid of that rig! I was the primary rigger at Z-Hills for almost two years between 1973-74, one of the busiest dropzones in the world at the time and I never saw that happen once (I fish scaled all reserves that came in for re-packs). I did jump with a couple of guys that had those lines on their rigs though. I for one was certainly glad to see cones go on into history.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

---------------------------- Last time I saw Beezy was at the old campground just off the airport in Z-hills for the old-old DZ run by Jim Hooper. It was kind of gorilla camping near the golf course. Must have been in 1978. He wasn't too big then but none of us were, ceptin' Tire Biter. It's funny you should mention Jim Hooper in this particular thread as he used to jump a T-Bow. Had a cutaway from it too, used his 26' Navy Conical out of his Pop-Top (one of my many saves). He didn't seem to have "heavy" landings under the T-Bow at the time, I think he probably weighed about 145lbs then. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Very good point. AAD's have become so common that we do take them for granted. Most new users seem to get a quick briefing about how to turn them on in their student training (push the button, chase the light), and think that's all there is to know. Of course each AAD comes with a complete instruction manual, but few users probably read that, and even fewer read it more than once. So, if you have a Cypress, or if you are a student, take 15 minutes and read the manual cover to cover. Perhaps ask your instructor, rigger, or S&TA to hold a 30 minute seminar about the AAD covering when it might work, and when it might not. We should all add this topic to our early season safety review. This is extremely good advice, you should know all there is to know about the equipment you jump. A comment about AADs in the old days was made that probably still applies. The old Sentinel AAD had to be calibrated before the jump at the drop zone to be jumped. I remember an instructor who didn't fully understand what that meant and having forgotten to calibrate his students AAD, did so on jump run. The student found themselves under a reserve soon after exiting the aircraft. This could have been much worse if the student had been deploying the main at the same time... Someone told me when I fist began jumping that if I jumped long enough, I would know someone who went in. I did, and I think that statement still holds true today (unfortunately). I chose to make my next jump the same day to "get back on the horse." I'm sure some chose to quite and that's ok, it's a personal decision. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Baglocks were a lot more prevalent in the mid 70's when the squares of the day were Para-Planes and Para-Clouds, they had a very wierd reefing system. I assure you, no one threw them away after a bag lock. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

In many of the forums I visit, there is one additional piece of information I don't see here which I find very helpful. That is who made the last post. It is usually a part of the last post date/time heading. For me, it is helpful since I can easily see if someone has posted to a thread after I left a post without checking my email. That way I don't waste time entering a thread where I was the last poster anyway. Thanks ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Thanks. I am quite picky about bad spelling too, so I like your advice. (sig line changed, BTW) There are no USPA-certified riggers at the DZ I jump except the Skydive Chicago pilots who fly their otter for us, but since each pilot is coming for a few weeks at a time, I am researching this as a plan B alternative should one of them not be able to do it before my trip. Well, who does your re-packs then? It sounds like there are at least two good riggers at Z-Hills these days, maybe the advice to send the rig on first (without the main) would work out best for you. "USPA-certified riggers" Ok, I'm no longer an active rigger so I really don't know, but when I got my Senior Riggers License in 1973, it was an FAA license, USPA had nothing to do with it. Has that changed? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

"be careful giving advise. wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it " I hate to be picky, but "advise" is a verb, "advice" is the noun you need here.... I agree with the poster who recommended having your reserve re-packed before traveling by your usual rigger. Why wouldn't you do it that way? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

A wonderful comparison. Except that an MD-80 series jet weighs sixty-one and a half thousand pouds empty. They have an average Maximum Landing Weight of 131 thousand pounds. So when you see one touching down, you can assume it weighs somwhere in between those two figures. Your forward speed during descent to land an MD-80 series is something along the lines of 250 knots. Your descent rate is 17 to 6 miles per hour, flared out to 4.5 - 2.3 miles per hour at the runway threshold. Your average man weighs 188lbs. He will never have a forward speed of 250knots... what are we saying? About 120 at best? What are the slowest *maintained* descent rates we've seen? 18-30 miles per hour-ish? So admitedly, your man is coming down 4 times faster then the jet is at touchdown... So we can forget the "higher sink rates" presented in your comparison. More importantly, he is also weighing in well under five hundredths the weight of the jet... AND landing on a slope. [Silly Comparison] Go ahead and use those ribs as shock absorbers. I'm thinking they almost scale my friend. Because those planes are some thirty feet tall. The shocks compress some 2 feet (as per you)... that's 6%... translate that to the human male and give him an average height (thusly 'thickness' from chest to back) of a foot. 6% of that is three quarters of an inch. I think I was compressed more than than that the last time I got a bear-hug. [End Silly Comparison] Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the whole reason for using a slope to get the verticle speed of the jumper to a manageable level? The MD80 lands on a horizontal surface.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Ok, I'll play. It's 1975 and someone has just invented (or re-invented) the slider and we have just heard about it in Aurora IL. So, Bill Buchman the master rigger I work for decides to build a slider for my rings and ropes Stato-Star. I think this is a good idea also and we just sort of guess at how to make the thing since we hadn't actually seen one. We make a square of material with gromments at each corner about the same spacing as the risers would be when the canopy is open. I'm going to make the jump on this thing and we decide to go with three chutes just in case. So I have my Strato-Star main, 26' Navy Conical reserve, and a belly wart 24' with no pilot chute (can't cutaway the 26' anyway). Up we go in Bill's Piper Vagabond. Now, the Vagabond is a very small aircraft with limited seating (side by side, two place). I barely can get in with the three chute setup. But, off we go up to about 7500' for a hop and pop to see how this slider thingy works. I push the door open and thrust myself out. At full stretch I come to a sudden stop as my foot is cought under the passenger seat. I look back up as I dangle in the wind blast and Bill is laughing so hard he can barely fly the plane! I'm thinking, glad he's having so much fun, what the hell am I going to do? I can't land this way and I seem pretty securely stuck... Just as I'm about to see if I can do a situp from upside-down and in an 80 mph wind to try and get back in the plane, Bill rolls the aircraft 90 degrees to the right (still laughing his ass off) and I suddenly dislodge. The slider worked as you would expect, sort of anti-climatic after the exit Ahh, the good old days when anyone could test anything and we were young and indestructable... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I wasn't the heaviest guy on the dropzone, but I had no trouble standing up my 26' Navy Conical. I have seen some pretty severe landings under the 24' military rounds of the past though ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I did say most Meaning, aside from ejection seats, the space shuttle, and top fuel dragsters (they only go 200mph anyway) most rounds of kind applicable to sport jumping are used for static line drops of troops and cargo. And, with an ejection seat the pilot remains in the seat with the canopy attacted to the seat rather than the pilot. So, the seat takes and buffers the opening shock, right? Also, there's a delay between rocket assisted ejection (what do they call that, zero altitude capability) and canopy deployment. I would imagine horizontal speeds drop considerably during that time. Have you got any futher details on their operation? No, with an ejection, the seat seperates from the pilot (this happens either immediately or after some freefall if above certain oxygen starved altitude). Then the reserve deploys attached to the pilot's harness the same as yours (except with Koch releases instead of 3-Ring). The Navy conical in a zero-zero ejection system is designed to open from 0-mph/0-altitude to 600mph/20,000ft (I wouldn't want to endure that last one though). Overall though, you're correct, most round reserves in use were fairly low speed that were surplus (24' military types, etc.). However, sport manufacturers reserve canopies have to meet fairly high speed/high weight standards. I don't know what those are, but I remember seeing a Strong 26' lopo reserve test dropped at Z-Hills in the mid '70s from our 196 (Cessna 195 with 450 hp engine) with a 500lb dummy weight and going about as fast as that plane would go (maybe 200, 220?). Several drops were made and I saw no damage to the reserve. I have nothing against square reserves, I was just pointing out that in certain circumstances, they have an advantage (IMO). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

My round was a 26' Navy Conical designed for ejection seats. I don't think it would have had any problems with high speeds nor is it prone to inversion problems (though it had no netting). Rounds with freebags, are there any? What is required to make a freebag work with a round? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I can think of two advantages of round reserves vs. square. 1) Two out situation as stated, the main just falls below and is easy to deal with. No down plane to worry about. 2) Unconscious or disabled AAD opening. If you are unconscious or disabled, I would think the 3 to 5 mph canopy speed would be better for you. That said, I had one malfunction on a round in 350 jumps 1/350 and no mals on squares in 650 jumps 0/650. The reserve used on the mal was a 26' Navy Conical (mostly round). Question: If you elect to jump a round reserve today, are there free bags for them? The free bag seems like the way to go, but I've been out for a long time.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Hmmm... My computer geek boyfriend said it would take a 220-way box, about that time. He said it'd suck to be the guy who went low. Wendy W. It would be a bummer to be everyone else if anyone chickened out at a few hundred feet and pulled out of it.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Thanks, I was jumping with Carl Daugherty when God was a boy Just saw him for the first time in 24 years at the keys boogie in Marathon Key a few weeks ago. He looked great (except for the hair, though I guess if your this old and still have that much, you might as well flaunt it)! Carl was about 1000 jumps ahead of me as I recall and he told me he has around 16000 now, so maybe I'd have 15000 if I'd stuck around. Can't really imagine that... and I really can't imagine what that adds up to in dollars. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519