RogerRamjet

Thanks for that. Yeah, I got lucky and maybe had a little skill as well. I figure I was lucky a couple of times besides just surviving... After working for Bill Booth building the first Wonderhogs (lucky again!), I went to work for Bill Buchmann building his Eagle rigs and went up to Aurora, IL for a summer. I met a number of great people there including Roger Nelson who I hit if off with and made many hundreds of jumps with. In 2003, I was thinking of a 30 year anniversary jump (first jump July 1, 1973). I had kept in contact with Roger on and off through the years, so emailed him about it. He gave me some advice and I went on my merry way (though I didn't make the jump). When he was killed, I decided to see what was out on the net about Roger and ran across a short he wrote in Pat and Jan Works book "United We Fall." I was shocked to find he had written about me (and never told me)! Check it out online at: http://www.cs.fiu.edu/~esj/uwf/uwf5.htm Just scroll down to the title: Pre-Stars? "Hey Man, You're Late..." I really didn't even know I was in on some of the first pre-stars being done. When you're young, you're typically blind to any history being made you might be a part of... Starting my jumping career at Z-Hills was a huge advantage in my opinion. Anyone starting at a large RW oriented DZ in those days had a step up since it attracted the better jumpers (not just Z-Hills of course). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I don't know who or where. All I know for sure is I wasn't in it... rats! I'll bet they got film too... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

A bit of (somewhat ancient) history. This is the story of how I graduated from just another jumper to jumping with the “Sky Gods.” Now, I know the meaning of Sky God is a little skewed these days, so I’ll start by defining the term Sky God as I knew it in the ‘70s. They were the jumpers doing the cool jumps, the big RW formations, etc. They had lots of jumps usually and tended to jump with each other on the big stuff. However, they always had time to help those of us with fewer jumps and experience, sometimes talking to us about technique, sometimes jumping on our jumps. I did not meet many of the type as described recently here that were “above” the rest of us and too arrogant to associate with us peons. The story starts in Z-Hills in 1974. I am a 300 jump wonder trying to get better and jumping on any jump I can get on. I’ve been lucky enough to have been in some 16 man and a couple of 20 man stars. One day I hear that Deland is going to have some RW jumps from 16,500 the next weekend. So, off I go two and a half hours across the state to Deland the next weekend to get on these large star attempts from 16,500. Saturday morning and Jay Boynton is organizing the star attempts. I ask someone I know how to get on the jumps and he tells me to see Jay about it (whom I had never met). I go talk with him and he asks a couple of questions, like how many jumps do I have and what types of stars have I been in. Seemingly satisfied with my answers he says “Tell you what, I’m going 16th, you go 17th and follow me down. When I dock, you dock on my left. Each time you successfully dock on me without taking out the formation, you get to come on the next dive.” Fair enough for me, so I say something like “cool” and off we go. We make three dives from 16,500 that day and it’s glorious to me. We make round stars all in the high 20’s to about 29 I think which are the largest I had been in at that time. Each time, I am amazed when my internal clock is telling me to break off and my altimeter is saying 5000 feet or more! It was a great day and I crash in the van wanting more on Sunday. Now, step back a couple of weeks and we are watching some 16 millimeter film at Z-Hills of the Casa-Grande 16 man diamond attempts. They make several attempts but are unable to complete the formation. Sunday. I had heard that there was to be an attempt to create the world’s first 16-man diamond on Sunday and I certainly wanted to see that! So, Sunday morning I’m hanging around watching Jay organize some of the best jumpers anywhere. Everyone is accounted for except one guy who hasn’t shown. Someone says, let’s take Roger, he did ok yesterday. So Jay asked me if I’d like to go 16th on the attempt (like I had to think about it). I’m excited, but I had seen the films and usually number 16 is just an observer. But, these guys are pretty good, so who knows. In retrospect, I think Jay was thinking the same thing… It’s never been done and based on the films, what are the odds of completing it on the first attempt. Maybe we’ll learn enough to make it on a later attempt and by then the number 16 guy will be here. Or at least that’s what I think I might have been thinking if I were organizing… Up we go in Mr. Douglas, the Deland DC-3 with “Far Side of the Moon” by Pink Floyd playing on the 8 speaker, 8 track system. I’m at the end of a stick of some of the best jumpers I’ve ever been around and I’m certainly pumped up about being on the load. We exit at 13,500 and I am following number 15 down watching the base start to build. Now for those who have not been jumping for 30 years, you might not realize that since there had never been a 16 man diamond before, no one knew anything about how to build one the easiest way, so all the attempts including ours were with all jumpers facing the same way building to a 10 man wedge and then on to the 16 man diamond. Now Z-Hills and Deland had some of the best skydivers in the world and I had seen a couple of 10 man wedges before. But, I had seen dozens of failed 10 man wedge attempts, it was not a given from what I had seen. Well, the wedge built slowly but methodically and soon I saw my third ever 10 man wedge. Then the next three guys dropped in and then two and suddenly, I was the only remaining flyer. It seemed like every one of the 15 jumpers now in the formation was looking over their shoulders at me! Now I was young (21) and cocky, but it dawned on me right then that if I took this out or failed to get in I would not be jumping with these guys anytime soon. So, luckily I had set up my approach nice and steep, so I just had to sink down without drifting over the formation. I docked like I had been doing it for years and you could actually hear people screaming. We held it for quite some time as we had completed it well over 5000 feet. Unfortunately we had no camera man, but a load of people on the ground (including number 16 who arrived just after take off) watched us hold it for several seconds. I went from never being asked on these large formation attempts to always being asked in one weekend! Just two weeks later, some of the same jumpers from this record and some Z-Hills “Sky Gods” including myself completed the world’s first 20 man Papillion. I was already on Jim Hooper’s 10 man team that year (Ten High Bunch) for the Thanksgiving meet and Deland had their 10 man team together anyway, but I was able to get on the Deland 16 and 20 man teams going 16th and 20th respectively. Ten High took 4th of 105 teams, while the Deland 16 took 1st of over 50 teams and the Deland 20 took 1st of over 20 teams. The Deland 10 man team took 1st also. Here is some input on the jump from Carl Daugherty from Deland who is still jumping and was on the jump: =============================== I was on the jump. Jay Boynton was organizing I'm not sure, but I believe these are the guys/gals that were on that 16 man diamond. Jay Boynton, Tony Patterson, Dave Sickler, Mike Cerasoli, Jay Hilden, Mike Truffer, Don Fornier, Al Brown, Bobby Gray, Bill Price, Steve Fugelberg, Rodney Jensen, George Brownlow, Helen Sickler, Carl Daugherty, and Roger Clark Carl =============================== Note: I used the nomenclature “16-man” throughout the story as that is how big-way formations were referred to in those days. No one thought anything about it at the time. In one special weekend through luck and maybe a little skill, the perception of me by other jumpers changed radically. I didn’t feel any different, but now I was being asked “how to” questions and I was always being invited on the “big” jumps. I have never forgotten how all that came to be and I’ve always wanted to tell the story, so here it is. I owe Jay Boynton a lot for that weekend. He is a true “Sky God” in the best sense of the word. All the jumpers on that jump, some still jumping, some retired, some not with us anymore are or were the “Sky Gods” of the time. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

You're welcome! Yeah, I see our Loadstar in there. Quite a few pictures of Z-Hills in the Commercial Center era there, brings back fond memories

Hey just checked out the site.....You made it to the 70's!!!! That has got to be one pain in the arse,,,, Hopefully I can add some more this year and keep you behind Nice job, cant wait till you have it done. Let me know when you make it to Zhills, first beer on me! I'm starting to like you and I'm not sure we've ever met, but maybe... As for the database, Bill and Patty are doing the "grunt work" part of it. When they get a load of entries in a spreadsheet (copied from spiral bound notebooks and stuff like that), they send them to me and I bulk load them to the database. Bill is the man as far as I'm concerned, can't believe he has kept this all together for so many years by hand! I'm just a humble helper in this. I hope SCR, SCS, etc. make a comeback in the skydiving community, I know I treasure mine. And to think, when I got them how high I thought the numbers were ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Hi Andy, Yeah, that's a consideration for sure. When I was on Hoopers 10 man speed star team (Ten High), we were making 5 or 6 jumps each day on the weekend and I would make a couple more usually... 12 to 20 jumps a weekend. At that time (1975), loads to 10,500 were around $8.00 and 12,500 were around $10.00. On top of that, I lived in Miami building Wonderhogs for Bill Booth at the time, so I had to drive or fly up every weekend. I think if I got back in at that level, I'd be divorced inside two months... However, making a few here and there is tempting and might not break the bank if I can control myself ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Database is up and running, just a few thousand records to add

And if the pin separates from the bridle? How do you know what you have then with your pull out? The container is still locked, but you "KNOW" it isn't. You are moving too fast to make any in depth assessment of the situation, you should know what you will do for pilot chute in tow and do it (IMO). Overall, I don't really disagree with you except that to me, any time you are draging the pilot chute behind you, it is a pilot chute that is being towed, regardless of what it's snagged on or if the container is locked or not. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

So??? The pilot chute is still in tow behind you, regardless of why and the procedure to deal with it would be the same as you could not tell if the bridle separated from the pin, the bridle hung on part of the container, the bridle looped around the PC, you forgot to cock it, whatever. You are still towing the pilot chute and have precious little time to react... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

A pilot chute in tow is just that, a pilot chute over your back with nothing extracting. I think I can speak on this as I'm pretty sure I had the first ever pilot chute in tow on a hand deploy rig while testing for Bill Booth. We called it a pilot chute in tow at that time (1974), so the term pre-dates the magazine by a couple of decades. You might also note that the original Wonderhog used a bight of the bridle to close the container, pins came much later. In this particular case, the pilot chute was too small and did not have enough force to extract the bag. I reached back and pulled the bag from the container with the bridle at which point deployment resumed without further incident. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

You might just get that chance. I'm thinking of making some jumps and Z-Hills was my home dropzone when I was active (73-80). Scotty and Tammi have offered to do my re-train and AFF jump to get me started again. I don't know if I can resist such temptation.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Well If I may. I returned to the sport in 2000 with only 169 jumps. By 2002 I had 1100. I guess I picked up after my father because my jumps were 4 way video and jumping with the newbies. For some reason I started logging the successful SCR's that I had organized. Well as of 2005 I had 86 logged. I then thought, SkyFest 05 is this year I wonder if I can hit 100 during the event. July came around and I still only had 86, thinking that will be a tough one to get during the event, (especially since I am one of the two founders) while organizing the boogie. Well believe it or not I walked away with a total of 102 SCR's that I organized since I started, since then I am up to 105. I have not counted SCR's that I didnt organize so I really dont know how many I have actually been a part of. As I mailed all the forms from SkyFest to Bill Newell, I mentioned that I hit my goal. He replied that I may not have the most but he bets I am one of a very few who actually tracked them and he doubts that anyone will beat it. He is thinking of making a 50 or 100 patch for those individuals. He also will attend SkyFest 06 this year and wants to hand out patches on the spot liked they did back in the days. July 2006 marks 40 years since Bob Boquor's drowning while filming a movie (which he saved the footage from what I heard). we will be celebrating his life during SF 06 this year and all the other pioneers that are with us or not. Would it be great to say that I have the most? You bet! But my goal is to keep people jumping and SCR's and newbies I believe are the way to do it. One jumper at a time. Ok I lied I want 200 SCR's Sorry so long I imagine Bill Newell has been on a few himself Soon, we will have them all online for you (including all the other awards Bill administers). The site is there at: http://www.scr-awards.com/ The database has been created and has a lot more awards entries than the old one. Just have to get the site and the database married properly and you should be able to look up any of the awards Bill administers online. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

That would be cool, I have a lot of jumps from that Loadstar. I also flew right seat and did most of the flying to Aurora IL when we took it up there for the summer one year (Bill Buchman was the pilot in command). I talk with Bill every now and then, I'll ask him. BTW, he says the Skyvan is just as dangerous for the same reason (as the Loadstar). I believe he told me they (Deland) have a line painted on the floor that no one can go aft of unless the Pilot has indicated it's ok (he's ready in other words). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Well, Loadstars didn't just show up at Z-Hills, we owned one. As for piling up in the back, it certainly brought down more than one Loadstar, but had more to do with configuration and pilot skill than anything else. With Bill Buchman or Jeff Searles flying, I did not fear the "stall." Not sure about exit speed. We practiced from three different aircraft; the DC-3, the L-18 (Loadstar) and the L-10E (Like a twin Beech). I don't remember our times varying much, but I don't remember much anyway Bottom line, I defer to yours and Kallend's opinions as you have jumped both aircraft and I haven't. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Not sure I agree about the DC3. My recollection is that although the door is indeed narrow, the fuselage is so wide you can really line up for a perfect shot at it. That is not the case with the Otter, despite its wide door, on account of the placing of the line (current USPA rules) and the narrow fuselage (usually with benches). Regardless, I still maintain that comparing times from different eras with different rules and planes is an exercise in futility. It is indeed a fun event. I would tend to agree. I have not jumped the Otter in 10 man, so don't know the physics (no pun intended) of exit vs. the DC-3. Carl Daugherty was on the 1974 winning Deland team I spoke of above. He was also on the winning 16 and 20 man teams (as was I) that year. He was and is an excellent skydiver. Note: I might be off a year, could have been 1975. I can't tell from my photo album. Carl Boenish took the pictures of the 16 and 20 man team jumps that year. I was honered to be part of those teams that year. They were made up of the best from Z-Hills and Deland and were probably some of the best jumpers in the world at the time (IMHO). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

The rules at the time of the example I posted above (1974) where that the clock starts when the judges, looking through telemeters, saw anypart of a jumper. We made our jumps from a standard door DC-3, so exit was single file, all facing forward, no floaters. I think the rules then were much more difficult than what I saw on the video as you can exit 10 people from that wide door much quicker than the DC-3 or Beech D18 doors used back then. Still looks like fun to me though! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I was on Jim Hooper's Ten High team in 1974. We took 4th place in the annual Turkey meet (of 105 teams) with average times in the high 13's. I believe the winning team from Deland had average times in the low 12's. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Those look to be along the same design as the Clawson suits. Large legs and arms, and in the case of the Clawson at least, an elastic cord from the hip area to the wrist for increased "brakes." http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gallery/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Personal_Galleries/RogerRamjet/Blast_from_the_Past&image=SkydiveRoger.jpg&img=&tt= ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

A couple come to mind right away. Jim Hooper, with him as ASO at Z-Hills in 73, you will follow the rules and jump safe. Bill Booth, working for him (building the first 100+ Wonderhogs) really exercised by "out of the box" thinking skills. Bill Buchmann, I worked for him next, building Eagle rigs. but what always stands out in my memory is his masterful piloting skills. Especially in difficult to fly aircraft such as the Loadstar. Roger Nelson, what can you say, the man was good at everything and afraid of nothing. He introduced me to pre-stars before the term was even formed. Check it out at: http://www.cs.fiu.edu/~esj/uwf/uwf5.htm Scroll down to: Pre-Stars? "Hey Man, You're Late..." I didn't even know he wrote about me until 2003 just after he was killed. There are others, some already mentioned above, but these come to mind first. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I tend to agree having given blood and then ridden my motorcycle home many times, but the subject was brought up and I was just passing info between threads. If you want to comment directly in the thread in question, it can be found here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1933675;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I hope the boogie is the greatest. The "Turkey Meet" in Z-Hills in the '70s, when it was a commercial center, was the biggest meet of the year anywhere. Haven't been up there in many years, have to drop by and say hi one of these days... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

There is a thread in Safety and Training where it was recommended not to jump for 2 months after donating blood. Can you get the opinion of BloodNet on this and post it here? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Hmmm, the Z-Hills boogie has a mobile blood donation unit there during the meet. Donate and get a free jump ticket... maybe someone should ask a few questions about this? See this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1928550;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I too am very happy about this. I just got an email from Bill and he is very appreciative of all the support and the many hundreds of letters sent to his lawyer on his behalf. I have jumped out of many different airplanes piloted by Bill. Loadstars, DC-3s, L10E Lockheed, 182s, and even his personal Piper Vagabond. He is one of only two Pilots I felt completely at ease with jumping a Loadstar and I fully believe he saved both the Palatka Loadstar and all of us onboard one day at Z-Hills when he was riding right seat to help the Palatka pilot become familiar with the L-18. Glad to have you back Bill! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

Well, have you tried another method of exit yet? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

I don't agree. I know one person from my childhood who died when a car ran off the road and ran him over (he was on a mini bike). I spent 13 years drag racing, no one I knew died. 17 years in competative water-skiing, no one I knew died. During some of these, I spent 13 years riding sport motorcycles, no one I knew died (though a bunch got hurt). 7 active years of skydiving, 5 people I knew died (and quite a few more since then). I'm 52 now and fully expect that when I die, skydiving will still hold the most number of people who I knew that died. If I re-enter the sport, I fully expect to know a few more (unfortunately). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519