pajarito

You know.......You just never know......................... .....................Think about it....

AGREED.....yet another rarity!

I know it hasn't been in the US that long and just recently gained FAA approval but does anyone have experience with this new aircraft? Is there one flying at a DZ yet over here? If so, how to you like it? I sure wish I could afford to get one and fly it. I think it's pretty damn cool. http://www.utilityaircraft.com

I think PhillyKev and Kallend think GWB is probably involved. You know...in on the conspiracy.

Ok....but I'm guessing that there has to be a balance. You don't want to release information that might turn out to not be true in the future. I'll agree that something this big would need to be gotten out ASAP but there has to be control in place. That's not necessarily indicative of bad motives.

What's wrong with that. Simply because it might have gotten delayed a month doesn't make me jump to the conclusion that there's some sort of wide-spread conspiracy. I'd want to control the flow of information in order to limit rumors. Once the facts are in, i.e. who did what, when, why, where, how, and things are confirmed, then release to the press.

Do they "contribute" to science or "distort" it? I've read a little about them on their website but I admit, I'm no expert.

That's all fine and good PhillyKev. Why don't we all just wait and see what comes of it? Like I said, IMO, whoever was involved should pay the price. I just can't buy your politically motivated generalization that this is some sort of wide-spread commonality in the US Military. It certainly didn't seem that way during my service and I've had some experience in those types of situations.

Completely different. Those 19 people were affiliated with a terrorist organization and not a country. Afghanistan was safe harbor for terrorists at the time and the Taliban were supportive of that organization. The US doesn't "judge" Afghanistan for what 19 (mostly Saudis) did on 9-11.

Is that not what he's alluding to? Maybe I'm trying to read into what he says too much. I should know better than that by now. If so, I apologize.

I've also got to add this. Have you any idea how long it takes to get anything done in the military? I'm surprised it got done as fast as it did. You can't even get a letter in the mail in less than a month or two.

There goes more conspiracy theory.

I guess he's not going to reply. It means Commander in Charge.

Do you have "credible" proof that torture is taking place at Camp X-Ray? Also, they don't fall under the Geneva Convention so it's not rellevant. In keeping within the context of this discussion, however, I believe it was mentioned that the C in C of the unit in question was relieved of duty and the soldiers arrested. The C in C is in fact responsible and, if this is confirmed, guilty of not controlling his troops appropriately (incompetent). That doesn't necessarily mean that he's also guilty of torture and breaking the Geneva Convention. That is, if he didn't know about it. If he did, then he is as guilty as they are and should be punished accordingly. We, however, don't know those details so everything we're saying is pure speculation.

Absolutely. If this is confirmed, the soldiers that did it should be tried by the military and, if convicted, sent to "break big rocks into little rocks" for a very long time. I'm absolutely positive that this will occur. Military law is very strict and unforgiving. The US will maintain its reputation.

If confirmed, these soldiers should be punished to the full extent of military law. Bottom line! Our standards of action during wartime must be maintained. I can't believe, however, all the talk about this being wide-spread. I don’t buy into the “see, I told you the US military was corrupt and evil and, therefore, the war is criminal and unjust” conspiracy theories. I've served close to 2 years in 3 different combat/hostile-fire zones where prisoners were taken and interrogated (some by my team). I have never seen any deviation from the Geneva Convention committed by US military. I can't believe that this war is that much different from all the others. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. I'm just saying that it is obviously isolated and should be dealt with appropriately.

I’m not defending what panzwami said about “taking down the guy’s house.” Although, I doubt that he was serious and expected to be taken literally. I can understand his frustration, however, and understand why he might say something like that in casual conversation. I support the 1st amendment and freedom of speech. I just think it is a shame that some people use it in ways such as was expressed in the article. Like I said and you paraphrased, “you have the right, but should know better.” My reference to serving was just that. I think, for the most part, those of us who have served in the military have a greater love and respect for the rights that are our privilege to have as Americans. That’s because, we have a greater perspective as to what is required to keep those rights. They weren’t given to us. They were fought for and earned.

I seriously doubt that you have any idea whatsoever as to what Pat Tillman might have thought about this article. I guess "freedom of speech" expressed in the 1st Amendment just means a bit more to some of us who have served to make it a possibility. It means that, even though we could say degrading things as were stated in the article, we wouldn't out of respect. Kind of like the whole "burning the flag" issue. Sure, you've got the right to do it but any descent American with respect for his/her country wouldn't. It shouldn't even be an issue. No matter what political party you adhere to.

Yes.....????

Ok...I'll go with that.

This might have been mentioned already and I didn't read the whole thread. If so, I appologize. As for the sign or arrow posted on the DZ for winds, what if the wind changes 180 degrees from the time the student enters the aircraft. I guess the sign is a good idea for a final briefing to the student but I'd put even more emphasis on teaching the student to watch the wind sock, flag on top of the building, smoke, etc. Not just get it stuck in his/her head that they have to land a certain way.

Not trying to "shove anything down your throat." Just stating my opinion like you. Must have hit a button. Sorry to offend. My comments were really directed at those who might "talk" religion to others. You're obviously one of those who aren't open to that discussion and that's ok. PEACE! ...Jeffrey

I doubt there are any "fat asses" that have made it up Everest, guided or not.

This is not directed at any one person. It’s just how I feel about the topic. I believe God has been made known to everyone through his creation and, therefore, they have no excuse. The Bible is his word. It was written by men inspired by God and is the source for truth. I think, since everyone knows in their heart of hearts that there is a God and because of the sin of man, that some have rejected this belief. I believe some have rejected for so long that God has given them up to their own wickedness and hardened their hearts. Therefore, they truly think that they don’t believe in God anymore and are hostile towards the idea. Only God can initiate the “spark” in someone’s heart to follow him. Nothing can happen, in reference to evangelism and conversion, without God having his hand in it. That doesn’t mean, however, that Christians should not. It is a directive from Jesus himself through “The Great Commission” that we do so. Every person is different, however, and some have to be approached carefully so as not to turn them away. We shouldn’t do anything that might cause someone to stumble. In some cases, that might mean that we don’t take an active approach to evangelism because it might cause more harm than good.

Sounds like a "hunter whuffo" question.