freeflybella

Ooh! Great question. Can't wait for the replies.

Jan's post is valid. The intended content of the calendar seems to have changed - or possibly, more thought has been given to the content. I think that's a good thing. I believe the different perspectives offered here (although I also believe they should have remained in the women's forum under the original post) have made alot of us think. I don't think drawing nudes for art class and the study of the human form is at all what's being discussed here. Absolutely that is not about sexuality. But the dissecting and objectification of female body parts (showing backs, legs, necks, etc) for 'sensuality' or 'beauty' goes to the heart of why some have a problem with this calendar - for this cause. To me, that only shows the conviction of those posters. And the depth of this issue. This is not a mutual admiration society - it's a message board for skydivers. edited: rudeness is never conducive to communication The calendar of firemen analogy was interesting. And made me think. The difference is that men as a whole are not objectified to the extent that women are. I think a better analogy would be a calendar of men holding their bank statements. There is a 'message' sent everytime each of us does something. That can't be helped - we're social animals. Everytime we put something out there, it's being received. We owe it to ourselves, and to those we're 'speaking' for - to make sure we know what message we're sending. Mindfulness isn't weakness.

I'll be there! It's going to be a GREAT weekend!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!! Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

Are you guys still talking only about Friday, May 1 ? Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

I'll be there! Heath and I live in Philly - Adam, from Monkeyclaw, does too! We'll all be out and jumping! Stop by the Monkeyclaw Freefly room and check in! Vertifly and JDfreefly are also ff'ers out here. Also, Jim and Clint from Team Extreme and Ian (and Heath) from the PD Factory Team will be out for an airshow demo - and should be kickin' it on our pond throughout that weekend. Come and say hello!

You mean this speech? Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

Pretty broad statement here: but from what I've seen, the Romanian people are gorgeous. Like the Dutch, only darker.

The results are in! After beautiful weather Tuesday and Wednesday (too beautiful, the snow was melting like crazy!), weather moved in for the start of practice and ground launching on Thursday. Gusty winds and clouds continued throughout both scheduled competition days (Friday and Saturday). Finally, Sunday morning, they were able to pull off 3 rounds and call it a competition. The top 5 are as follows: 1. JC 2. Shannon 3. Jay 4. Jeffro 5. Luke CONGRATULATIONS! Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

It's a calendar of skydiving skydivers from a skydiving organization. Makes perfect sense. But if the USPA only put out calendars of skydivers doing their laundry, while yes it would be funny - you'd be like "Hey, what does laundry have to do with USPA?" Hey...you've tricked me into playing devil's advocate! ***I think we've sort of gotten away from the issue here, which is that a group of women want to do something to raise money for breast cancer. From what I've seen of it so far, it will be a carefully planned, well done artistic shoot of, say, 12 of the JFTC members. Personally I'm all for it, and I wish them well. They seem to have some detractors, and that's fine - everyone has their own opinions, and can choose to participate or not based on their own feelings on the matter. *** And with that, I totally agree. The issue I chimed in on had nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of the calendar - but with the wrongness of telling others who tell you you're wrong that they're wrong! Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

I didn't want to keep posting here but I have alot of respect for you. I don't know you but have a place in my heart for you because of alot of what you write. I understand that disagreeing is different than jumping on. I just PM'd Keith and admitted that I just thought how I'd feel if people were saying those things to me when I was trying to express myself. I don't agree that only those being represented by the calendar are those in the calendar. Unless of course it's being called "The Girls In This Calendar". And I didn't mean pretty vs. ugly!

Are you kidding me? You can point the finger at me or whomever all you want to but everyone has standards and morals and values and things that concern/interest them. All I objected to were those who were attacking someone in return for supposedly attacking them. And now I'm on the radar. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

Look - you made a point of joining this discussion to say some mean and dismissive things. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of joining on impulsive reaction. I'm sorry. I don't know you. I haven't made any suggestions to know you - again, I didn't mean this to be a pissing contest. Or a hijacking. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

Hi! Not that it matters, but I am not offended by the idea of the calendar. I have no expectations of what it will be. I believe someone was trying to express herself (maybe or maybe not to the best of her ability) and was responded to in a very yucky way. I don't mean to speak for MakeitHappen, I don't know her. I was definitely speaking for myself alone. I, too, often have a different way of looking at things from others and felt like saying so. Those who got aggressive were no better at communicating than what they accused MakeitHappen of. They just had the 'comfort' of majority opinion in this/that thread. Good luck with your endeavors. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

Look we could pick each others posts apart all day - Fine. Men get breast cancer. I wasn't implying that men had no, or even diminished, roles regarding the issue. I'm not interested in a pissing contest. The point I was trying to make and now feel like making again, is that you don't have to put someone down just because they don't see things your way. No matter which side you're on. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

I have also kept quiet on this one - but have to say that bashing Jan's perspective is no better than what most of you are accusing her of doing. I despise the mob mentality, or whatever it is, that allows poeple to just jump on someone with a different viewpoint. Especially if they aren't expressing it the way YOU would. And am disgusted that a man would use words like 'prudish' in responding a woman's issue of respect. I think it speaks to Jan's point. As a female skydiver, I deal with preconceived ideas about what I'm really at the DZ for - how good I am on jumps - willingness to flash my tits for alititude - among many other things. I work hard to be a good skydiver as a woman in a mostly male sport. Breast cancer is a WOMAN'S issue. It makes sense that women would get together to support that. But it's also a public issue - and gets publicity. For those participating in the jumps who believe that this calendar idea sets them back in their efforts to not be looked at primarily for their outward physical characteristics - and in effect, discounts what they work for daily on the dz - they have a right to speak up. They are, not by choice, being represented by this calendar. If I were doing the JFTC jumps - and I'm not - I would prefer that I not be represented to the skydiving community as a pretty picture. I sincerely applaud the efforts and enthusiasm of everyone coming together for this issue. I personally would prefer that women find other ways to promote ourselves besides the tired, old "look at me" ways. **This is not a bash of the calendar idea or of those who think it's a good idea. If I had the ability to stop you from doing it I wouldn't. I would just ask that all the women on the JFTC jumps be fairly represented and heard. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

Heath had close to 5000 jumps before his first cutaway - and that was only from test-piloting the removable slider system. I guess they're not inevitable but they are damn likely! I always worried that when he did finally have a cutaway - he wouldn't be used to having something he couldn't clear and ride it too long. Silly me. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

That happened to me once - it was a 12-way. There were two sitflyers facing off and 4 on our heads at the 'corners' of the sitflyers. I was one of the 'corner' people head down. Luckily, the other head down person to my left also got it wrong - and we just switched places! Funny (or not so funny) that no one noticed! The other person I switched with didn't even realize it until I mentioned it after the jump. And it took alot of convincing!!!! edited: the dolls work great when trying to plan a dive - but doesn't help me much in 'visualizing' what my body will do in the air. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

Bears repeating. I would say "in addition to" not "failing that" in the above sentence but the thought is right on. Also, EVERY member of EVERY dive should be respected - and the organiser of the dive - whether a coach, a world champion or just a local fun-jumper - should make the rules and expect that you, by participating in the dive, will follow them. If you find yourself in a situation where showboating happens, say something to those people (hopefully the organiser already has). Let them know it's unacceptable to trash the dive for everyone else and risk the safety of their friends. If it continues to happen, don't get on dives with either that organiser, or those people. I know it sounds harsh, but if enough ff'ers emphasize safety and sticking to the plan, it will become less and less cool for them to show off and ruin your fun. That might be true. If you're on a small dz and there is no one skilled freeflyer taking the lead and paying it forward - it's even more essential that the jumpers learning at about the same skill level have an understanding that they respect each other and will do whatever necessary not to kill each other. That means the organiser makes the rules. Everyone is honest about their skill level. Everyone takes resposibility for their own safety. (That means get off the sketchy jumps, stick to 2-ways if your dz doesn't have the skill level for big-ways, etc.) **I don't mean to pick apart your post Andrewnewell. You made the important points, I just wanted to elaborate.

That's just plain silly. (I know you, WW, were only quoting what others have said) Dirt diving is an integral part of every skydive, no matter what discipline. It gets tricky sometimes when you have multiple orientation big-ways - but they need to happen. And they happen just like belly dirt dives - only with a bit of imagination and a little extra visualization required. Dive planning, muscle-memory, repitition, visualization of dive and jumpsuits, discussions of exit and break-off...why would any of this be less important for freefly? If anything, I'd say it could be argued to be more important due to the higher speeds and incidents of corking or zooming. Any ff'er who says no to a dirt dive is effectively saying "Put your life in my hands and trust that I can read your mind." Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

They're called Le Parkour (the urban gymnasts). You're right - it's so incredible. Did you see the Nike spot for Presto called "Le poulet en couler" (Angry Chicken) ? A chicken chases a gymnast around buildings. Very cool. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

As with everything in life, don't follow 'fashion' !! I remember 8 years ago - one of the World Champion Freefliers telling me that the ghetto-style massive baggy suits are the way 'everyone's' going! Are you huge and learning to freefly? Are you huge and moderately/masterfully skilled? Are you small and blazing fast? Are you small and floaty? Are you strong and do yoga? Are you noodle-muscled and just trying to hang with the guys? Do you jump with tiny people? Do you jump with comparatively sized people? Are you on a dedicated team and trying to work within median fallrates? These are things to consider when fitting your jumpsuit. Get advice from 'experienced' people who know you - after you've explained your general freefly goals.

I've heard talk/rumors that the delay is an environmental one and plans to have it open by end of 2004 are in place. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

Okay so what have you heard about the other. I have selfish reasons, I'm just looking for a place to jump this year. Only good things.

Pumping your own gas in any other state 'would' mean it's cheaper, but somehow not in NJ. Going over the bridge means something around .20 cents cheaper per gallon than pumping your own in Philly. Also, I'm with you on the NJ is nice, thing. Somehow, somewhere, NJ got it's reputation - Just like NoCal is crunchy, SoCal is plastic, New Yorkers are rude and Alabama is redneck, The Midwest is fat and women in Texas have big hair ...New Jersey is cheesy. Whatever. Most people who actually leave their own hometown know not to believe the BS.