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Sounds like a classic case of the roofies. What did you drink and who gave it to you? Wait a minute...Jessica!? You didn't spike your own drink, did you? ***I should point out that the above statement was for the purpose of humor only.*** Whatever may be causing you discomfort...I hope it subsides quickly!!! Best wishes! FallRate

Aww..shit! I was enjoying this thread! [baiting]So...no more sophomoric, half-baked, pubesecent, angst-ridden, sound-bite influenced, bleeding-heart "State of the World" opinions!?[/baiting] FallRate

Hey, we're not done here are we!? FallRate

At the Winter Expo at SDC in 2000, Roger Nelson made reference to the Russians jumping without 'chutes into snow banks. FallRate

Penicillin might help with that. FallRate

OK, if you start any post with "What kind of rig would you recommend for a new jumper..." You automatically owe a case of beer!!! FallRate

I didn't ask if I had forgotten to point this out, I stated that "I DID forget". FallRate

To see a world in a grain of sand And a heaven in a wild flower, Hold infinity in the palm of your hand And eternity in an hour. -William Blake Not the entire poem, but my favorite part. He must have been a mystic, in the tradition of Parmenides perhaps. Don't know, going to work now. FallRate

Split personality? Drinking and posting? FallRate

I didn't see the ground until my level 5 AFF jump...scared the crap out of me...uhmm, figuratively speaking. I think it's normal. FallRate

Hmm...has additional legislation ever helped anything!? FallRate

Remember when packing new a new ZP canopy to lay on that sucker like a cheap hooker, and it doesn't hurt to repeat the line "Yeah bi*ch! Who's your daddy!?" over and over and over until you have beaten the thing into submission, or at least into the D-bag. FallRate

Kallend, I did forget to point out that the behavior described of the German police is apparently considered to be acceptable by the government of Germany. I imagine they really wondered what all the fuss was about when they saw the video of the Rodney King beating. Again, I just like the idea of dealing with these issues ourselves. For every condemnation we can find for American abuses of power, those who commit or support the abuses can find examples of far greater levels of human rights violations. I believe we must hold our government to our own standard. FallRate

Make as many trips to the amusement parks as you can, and soon. The safety-saints in Washington have now set their sights on roller coasters. FallRate

If that was your intent, to offer a challenging argument, I don't believe you did. You cited irrelevant examples of abuse by the police in the US in an attempt to challenge the valid illustration that the Germans commit what we would consider to be civil rights abuses. Therefore making a consideration of their opinion about our system rather questionable. To make this simple, your point seems to be that the Germans will not extradite suspected terrorists to the US because they are concerned that these prisoners will not be treated fairly, and we should see this as an indication that we, as a nation, have little, not enough or no concern for fair treatment. My point is that we should not concern ourselves with what the German government thinks of our system of Justice, or INjustice if you prefer. Saudi's believe us to be a disgustingly deprived nation because we allow women to "expose" themselves in public, but I doubt that anyone thinks we should revisit public dress codes because of this. In an attempt to fend off any rebuttal to this, aimed at convincing me that there are serious civil rights violations in this country that I am ignoring, please be assured that I am aware that serious violations due occur and quite often. My Father, who is a retired cop, has a saying: The Criminal Justice System in the US is a terrible system and has nothing to do with Justice, but it is entirely Criminal! FallRate

Nah, just a joke. There is always plenty of space in the tent! I have paid the fee the last two boogies and packed for myself exactly three times. I pretty much use it for shade. But it is always funny when the carpets in the hangar are full and someone plops down a canopy and starts to flat pack. It's like those people who park sideways in the parking lot, you just want to key the damn thing! FallRate

OK, killing innocent civilians is bad enough. But tricking a harmless little fish into swallowing a hook!? That's just demonic!!! I'm calling PETA! FallRate

Mr. Kallend, I made no comparison of the police in the US to those in Germany. It was pointed out that Germany would not release (suspected) Al Quaeda terrorists to the US for fear that they would not receive fair treatment. This reminded me of the story about the German police and what we Americans, or at least I, would consider to be appalling behavior. It was not a defense of American government abuses or Police brutality, as you mistakenly took it to be. It was simply an observation to highlight the ignorance of believing that we should take any cues on human rights from the Germans. Perhaps if you wouldn't get so defensive, we could avoid bogging down the conversation with "What did you mean by that?" FallRate

Ahh, we have much the same in the States. A hung jury (a variation of not proven) can result in a retrial. But in this case the jury returned a unanimous verdict of not-guilty in the first trial. It's not entirely the same, but it does allow for the fact that if every member of a jury believes that the case has not been proven, which is what a jury does--they do not rule on innocence, innocence is assumed--then it is believed that it would put an innocent person at undue risk to face the charge again with a new group of jurors. FallRate

Glad you mentioned him. The interesting thing about the Rodney King case was that the vast majority of the country believed that it was excessive and unwarranted violence. So much so that the Federal government indicted the officers after they had already been tried in a court of law and found to be not guilty, which was a violation of the officers' rights to avoid double jeopardy. Point being, we do as a society take very seriously the rights of individuals. In the current case we do have individuals (ACLU) challenging the governments decision to detain a US citizen without filing a formal charge. The government will always abuse its power if allowed to do so. Luckily we live in a country that allows us the opportunity to challenge the government's actions. FallRate

Speaking of the Germans, my girlfriends brother was on leave from the Army last month--he's been stationed in Germany--and he was describing how violent the German police are when dealing with unruly club crowds. Basically, if you are within arm's reach of them you can expect to be beaten bloody with an electric baton then zip-tied to the nearest tree, street sign, car bumper or whatever else they find handy and hope you don't bleed to death. He made the point that if the police are called in Germany, you really need to start running and get the hell our of their way. FallRate

It is not the case that the US government is intering all citizens who are known to have ties to the "Middle East". They have taken one US citizen into custody and have chosen to detain him in such a manner that bypasses due process. This, of course, is in violation of his his rights as a US citizen. Unless of course you consider that as provided by Article I of the Constitution, the privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus can be suspended when in cases of Rebellion or Invasion. Perhaps our "black and white" government is simply abusing its power by taking this individual into custody. Or perhaps they are not willing to make the same mistake that was made when the government of Pakistan offered the US government (under Clinton) an opportunity to take into custody one Osama Bin Laden, prior to 9/11, but declined because they were not convinced they could prove their case against Bin Laden for terrorist actions in a court of law. For someone who finds it quite easy to insult others as to their inability to appreciate those precious "shades of grey" we encounter in life, you are surprisingly quick to embrace overly simplistic points of view. FallRate

*argh* This has deteriorated into a chick thread. FallRate

Heterosexual men should encourage homosexuality...it improves our odds with the women!!! FallRate

No, No, NO! This isn't working...must have debate! [ducking] Maybe married women don't jump because married women get too fat to do it. [/ducking] FallRate