Ron

I tried to buy a Stiletto 97 when I had 300 jumps...PD would not sell it to me, and in fact CALLED me to talk to me about it. After some time talking to them, they said they would sell me the 107, but recomended strongly the 120...I listened to them and got the 120...And hooked it in on jump #3 on it.. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If he can't land it where he wants...then he can't fly that canopy well now can he? then maybe he should be jumping the bigger one till he can huh? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Never heard of a Stiletto Airplane. Excalliber is a name of an Ultralight...Can't recall another plane with that name. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ask him to land in the peas 5 times in a row...If he can't do it..Then ask him if he really can fly that canopy. Just because he didn't die or stood them up does not mean that he can fly that canopy. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So all of a sudden my "quess work" is valid John? Is it becasue you agree with me on this one? I did this once, and I think that there were more Females dying under canopy than the percentage of female jumpers as a whole...however more Males "hooked in". Its due to my observation that most Males are more agressive under canopy. So you want to charge males more for a canopy? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK John.. Lets get simple. Dod yo think that it is easier to get HP canopies now (For EVERYONE) than it was a few years ago? Take into account you have Dan P saying that a Cobalt is good for students. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Again John...Think about the WHOLE US, not just your back yard. And you had to be tricky to get it didn't you? Do young jumpers still have to? Nope...So they ARE easier to get today. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Take him to Here And show him that a large number of people with 300 jumps and a 1.5 Wingload are dead...And they all thought they could handle it. Several more are hurt..some to the point of never jumping again. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Where is your HARD data? BTW, I agree, but to argue like you here. Where are your facts? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Too many to list....I don't keep a personal record of my lectures to newbies.....But I can tell you that I know I have warned 3 people that are now dead, and I can think of 5 that still have not jumped again. All had less than 500 jumps and over a 1.4 WL. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The problem is that lower time jumpers are getting canopies that before they were unable to get. These jumpers lack of education and experience is resulting on many of them piloting open canopies in a manner that results in death and injuries at a greater rate than this group has ever seen before. This trend will continue until the education is available to EVERY jumper at EVERY DZ, and until this edcation is MANDITORY. Or until these jumpers are not allowed to pilot such extreme canopies until they gain the experience to handle them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

why have more than one rating...One thing you need to learn is the USPA it's LAZY...And it takes FOREVER to have them do anything. they are already there...I's and coaches. I was a S/L JM for 7 years..I wanted to get my Tandem and my I....I had to take the BIC...Well I had been teaching students how to skydive for 7 years. And before that I taught martial arts. Why the hell did I have to take the BIC? Because the USPA said so...end of story. If you want to do something...do what it takes to do it. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't see the need for more info. I see the problem. Others see the problem. The only issue is what and how to do something about it. I have given ideas..I have seen others. I don't care if mine is the "one"..I just care that the USPA does something more than just vote to build a museum, and try to collect proxies. And quit ingnoring the membership and the issues that modern skydiving has. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The problem is that this info does not exist...And I don't think we should wait 5 years to try and get it. There is proof that this is an issue..plus to be honest common sense tells us that you should not be doing anything that can kill you without training...The more chances it will kill you the more training you should get. And I still fail to see how this could be a bad thing. The ones that want to do 100 mph with their hair on fire still can...as soon as they can PROVE they can handle it Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about looking at the fact that the average jump number of the dead people is lower this year than the prior year..and it is lower than the one before that...ect? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And one was the guy that WROTE the rules at that DZ. So if your canopy control teaching is so great (which I think it is better than most..maybe the best) then why did both accidents have a guy that had or created your training programs? It takes two to collide...One to avoid. And my point was simply that even with the best instruction...still it is often not enough. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Driver Charged In Bicyclist's Death Published: Jun 27, 2003 TAMPA - An avid skydiver and head of a parachuting company died Wednesday after a motorist struck and killed him on Bayshore Boulevard near a ramp to Davis Islands, authorities said. Ian Bellis, 40, of 401 Channelside Walkway was stopped on his bicycle on a crosswalk leading to the promenade about 7:45 p.m. when a 2002 Chevrolet Impala struck him, police said. Police on Thursday charged the driver, Joseph R. Kinz Jr., 55, of 4222 W. Bayview Ave., with careless driving. He lost control, jumped the curb and traveled about 150 feet along the grass before striking Bellis, police said. Kinz told police Wednesday he was driving to Tampa General Hospital to visit his mother and did not know he was off the road. A passing physician and nurse provided medical aid to Bellis, but he was pronounced dead at TGH. Records show that Bellis was president of Aerodyne Research Corp., 5613 Interbay Blvd., which designs, manufactures and distributes sport and military parachutes. Link "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I had a 69 Extreme in an NJ. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

500 feet "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Made up #'s? didn't you jump me for the same thing (Even thought I got mine from the fatlaity reports)? Where is your hard data? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And if SDC is so good at canopy flight...Why have there been so many canopy collisions? I can only think of ONE in the state of FL. in the past year...So even WITH education...shit happens. Care to explain that one John? what about the fact that the jump #'s for people dying under good canopies is moving down every year? That not enough info for ya? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Zen get off of it. There are numbers...they show a problem. If a buisness spends all its time trying to get the whole picture..many times they go out of buisness waiting. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

right, but how about when the rule came out, or 10 years ago? The rule has kept me from pulling low back when I did that sort of thing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGA748IAEHD.html I am not sure that wil work...so: TAMPA - A man en route to Tampa General Hospital to visit his mother Wednesday struck and killed a man on a bicycle, police said. Joseph R. Kinz Jr., 55, of 4222 W. Bayview Ave., Tampa, was northbound on Bayshore Boulevard about 7:45 p.m. in a Chevrolet Impala when he drove onto the grass between Bayshore and a ramp to the hospital on Davis Islands, police said. The Impala struck a bicyclist waiting to cross the ramp to the promenade along Hillsborough Bay, police said. Kinz told police he didn't know he was off the road, Cpl. Joe Clark said. Records show Kinz is a licensed security officer and private investigator. Police did not identify the bicyclist Wednesday. The crash is under investigation. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

60,000 a year with flight benefits, set my own schedule...I'm yours. Nope, because you get taught from step one. Not ALL DZ's do this...In fact most don't. Roger was ahead of the curve... Problem is that not EVERY place does this... And the USPA can't even get the ISP everywhere.... Not every place has the level of instructors to teach this... Get away from Rogers place...Look at ALL the DZ's in the US. Roger had a very advanced program...Again not ALL DZ have it. Nor will they even if the USPA tries to make it so...Check the ISP. Check the fatality reports...way to many people under HP canopies...Maybe not at SDC..But all over the US. Well they are downsizing now with almost no supervision any way... And WAY before they have the experience to do it. Not at the wonderland that is SDC...But ALL over the US. All of the dead guys didn't think they would get killed. And if SDC is so good at canopy flight...Why have there been so many canopy collisions? I can only think of ONE in the state of FL. in the past year...So even WITH education...shit happens. Oh my god John...we agree on something. How the hell did this happen? What can we do to prevent us from agreeing again? However, how do you plan to make the ones that need it take the classes? USPA can't even make all the DZ's do the ISP. Not everywhere has that level of instruction. The WL BSR would MAKE the ones that want to go faster than the "normal" progression SHOW that they can handle it...If they can do it without the classes great..If they have to take the classes ot learn it..Better. But I would make them PROVE they can do it, not just take a class. And John, you should know this better than me...Just because someone takes a class...even if it was taught very well...Does not mean they will learn. The Regulation would protect these jumpers, atleast for a while. Would you agree to a WL to LICENSE structure more? WITH performance based tests? But then we get into the people like you that don't hook, but need a "D" to compete. Should you HAVE to learn how to hook? The other program does not make people learn anything they don't want to. If you make it part of the license structure...you start making people do things they don't want to do. You COULD make it like a HP endorsment for an airplane...You want to fly higher than 1.3 or so you need the endorsment..I could get behind that. But it does not take into the fact that people CAN learn how to fly HP on their own if they can get the experience. Germains table does take that into account. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334