Ron

Its not usually needed if you are paying them. You still can, and I have gotten as much as a 100.00 tip for a few coach jumps before. However, if you are just buying their slot, or the DZ is, or even they are...a couple of bucks is ok, but I would rather you hang out after the props stop and buy a few beers. If they are paying you could always give them a jump ticket or two.... Its time to stop being a student and start being one of the group...You do that by hanging out and buying some drinks. Hanging out is one of the biggest ways to be in this sport..The time you spend actually jumping is small. But the time you spend with these people is quite a lot. If you comeout, do your jumps, never learn to pack, never hangout you will never realy be "in". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You can try to cut it with a hook knife, but that is much harder than you would think...and if you have one of thise wimpy plastic ones good luck getting it to do more than break on you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but not always the case....For example in most sports the coach might not have ever been a good player...But they are great coaches. Many boxing trainers were not good boxers. Many great players suck when they are coaching. There was a time I was coached by a very skilled (2X World Champion) and he did not give us one good tip. All he kept telling us was "You guys have it, you just need more jumps together". I paid 500.00 to be told I needed more jumps with my team... World Class jumpers don't always make World Class coaches. And my main point was that if this guy wants coaching and if he is going to pay for it...At the level he needs a local reputable coach would be more bang for the buck. One on one insted of being one of a group. And the cost savings of not having to travel, take days off of work, hotel 300-350 a day fees....ect. As for giving it back....Hell I've been doing that for 10 years. I do it becasue someone gave to me. There was a time at my home DZ that there was me and "My Kids". These were people I started jumping with when they had 20 jumps...I'd do 10-20 jumps with them and then go get another 20 jump wonder. Do 20 jumps with them and they they would do two ways while I got a 3rd. This was back in the old Cessna days. Bigge DZ's don't have this family feel anymore. If a guy wants to learn I teach him...I will jump with anyone, but not on just any jump...Im not doing an 18 way with 3 guys with 100 jumps...Its not safe. But I do 2 ways with people with 10 jumps. I think we agree, but have differnet views on whats an acceptable level of coaching. I don't think you need ASPD teaching a FJC. They could do it, but it would be over kill, and you would have to pay big. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I know you answered "Nothing" in the way such as.."Nothing is different"...Not "you didnt answer it"...And I said it was a very valid answer. I just wrote/you just read it wrong. No biggie. and thats great...I do this as well...In fact the only times I charge for coaching is when they want me all day just with them....If I can't fun jump or do tandems, I like to get paid...But I am always giving advice, helping with exits...ect when Im not "on Duty". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Carry over from another post...when I do what she did she likes to say I am being argumentative. The fact is I never asked you anything other than: I never said what coach....She just assumed I meant something else. I just asked you what was the difference between paying a coach to do a two way, or going to a camp? And you answered nothing, but you would rather do the camps....Which is a great, honest answer. But they do cost more (For people that don't live in AZ or FL, and soon to be Perris). I bet if you lived in CA...You could get great coaching from John Hamilton, Dan BC, Chris Irwin...ect. AZ you could get coaching from any meber of AS... FL you could get XL or Majic. If you have only 60 jumps you would save alot and get a good deal of info with your local Skydive U coaches, and you would not have to spend the extra money to travel. Yes, Airspeed, Majic, XL, Blue ect are better coaches...But thats at times like having a Collage professor teach Elementary school. The professor knows MUCH more, but 90% of his skill is not needed. Kinda like putting out a match with a fire hose. Then she said: But I am saying that there are plenty of good skydivers that don't have an AFF, Skydive U or even a USPA coaches course...so that is not really the only way to look at that....Bob Healy does not have a Skydive U rating, but he really knows what he is doing. People get all wrapped up in certifications...I know plenty of non SDU, Non AFF, non USPA coaches that I would rather have teach my friends than some of the SDU, AFF, USPA coaches I know. The USPA coaches program is a large joke anyway. But people like to latch on to things like that... The simple fact is that most DZ's will not let a guy call himself a coach at that DZ if they really do suck. So at 100 jumps and all you want are basic skills...Your local guy might just work fine. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Newtons Law (I think its the 3rd).... For every action there is an opposite reaction. You can show how a skydiver moves by deflecting air with his body. You can have him show pictures or video of you in freefall doing turns and tracking...Also you can have pictures of him doing the same in the tunnel. For the class you can get a box fan and place it on two saw horses lying horizontal, blowing up (Like a SkyVenture for REALLY small people). Then go get some of those cool hand fans they give out at sporting events....You know the big round ones with the giant popsicle stick glued on the back. Have him show the class how the hand fan can difflect the air from the box fan and how the wind pushes the hand fan around....The class mates can even have a turn at it. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but the question that I asked was aimed at someone else...In one sentance they say that you don't need to pay people to jump with you : Then she says: Then she says: My question was which did she recomend? Not to pay someone? Or only pay Airspeed? Quote from me: Then Emma jumped in and answered what she thought was the intent. Emma: Now if you look at my first post I never said anything about who the coach was. Emma just assumed I didn't mean an Airspeed or Majic coach. In my second post I brought up the fact that not everyone needs a world class jumper to coach them. Since it was brought up I fiqured I would throw my opinion out on that as well. Most people will not get even 50% use out of a world class coach. I know several coaches that are really good, but are not on Airspeed/Majic, XL, Blue...ECT... Chromy is a great coach, Kurt Gaebel is fantastic, Bob Healy is great, Niklas Hemlin, Brian Johnson...All great coaches. And they can teach most people what they need to know. This person was asking had 60 jumps at the time....They were looking for a way to get some skills, not win the nationals...at least not yet. For that matter this person might do just fine with a local Skydive U coach at first. And save TONS of money at their local DZ. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But thats not what she said. Why are you explaining what someone else meant anyway? Do you know this for sure? Who is arguing now? And most of the time Airspeed is way above the level of the jumper anyway...So they might be better with other local cheaper coaches till then need Airspeed. It does not take a world class jumper to teach AFF. I don't have any of those...But I did coach for 9 hrs in the tunnel last week, had two teams pay for me to jump with them at the NSL playoffs this weekend and have a coaching gig for Sunday. So I guess Im not worth it then huh? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He says: Then you say: And then: Then: Now, are the Skill scamps and tunnel camps free, or did you have to pay someone to do them with you? Whats the difference between paying a coach to do a two way, or paying for a coach to do two ways with you at a skills camp or at the tunnel? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And why could he not find them? did someone move them? Sounds like this guy needs a shitload more training. And "He gave up and prepared to DIE!" What the FUCK is that?!?!?!!?! This person should quit the sport. NEVER give up. Thats just fucked up. A mistake is one thing...Giving up is another. This is why I tell folks after their 100th jump when they start to get cocky that I still expect them to bounce, but I now think they will atleast pull something before they hit.....It may not be the right thing, but atleast they will pull something. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The passenger is there to try and kill you. Just remember that. It is very rewarding...in some money, but mainly in taking people to do something they would never do without you. But just like a skyboard....a tandem passengers main function is to try and kill you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

2:2:2:19:1:1:1 Two teams. (Mr. Pink and FLAir) Two Slots. (Tail and OC) Two different draws (AAA, and A) 19 competition jumps. (10 with Pink, 9 with Flair) 1 Bronze with a 13.3 in AAA. 1 Silver with Flair. 1 very tired skydiver. There were jumps that I didn't even get to creep the first day. I'd land from one, and someone would be standing there with a second rig for me to get back on the plane. The second day was better, I only had one back to back. Pink could have done better if I was only jumping with them, but they are a very solid team, and I am impressed with them. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1. Im 30 (OK 31 next mth.) 2. I don't think people with "The Wrong Stuff" should be jumping...Thats different than "The Right Stuff". ""TRS" was the top pilots that got to go into space...Several thousand wanted to, but they didn't have "TRS". It does not mean the should not ever have flown again, but they were not going into space. The pilots with "TWS" never got an invite to try. People with "TWS" are dangerous, and they are out there. Give em to me. You asked the difference between a reserve ride and a CYPRES. The difference is one you did it the other a box did...Thats the difference. Regaurdless of how much you "tried" you still did nothing. List them..I bet we can find out the root cause in 5 seconds. If it didn't happen in the last 4 years or at a DZ that you were at I guess it never happened? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You seem to missing the point... If you skydive to survive which means not doing jumps that you have a chance of getting hurt or requiring any device thats not NEEDED to save you (CYPRES for going low, Audible to prevent you from going low RSL to prevent you from cutting away wil no reserve pull,ect)..... Then you are a safe skydiver. Now ADD and CYPRES, helmet, Audible, and RSL (if you wish). Thats safe. Just these cool toys don't make you safe, and never will. They are there to help you..But don't rely on them. They all fail. And as for me being macho...I turned down the 300 way since I would not have done it if I didn't have a CYPRES, I turned down the 2 pt 120 way, I don't freefly, don't jump a wingsuit, Don't jump a pocket rocket canopy anymore...yeah this all screams machismo....The fact is I see the danger areas then AVOID them the best I can. Ya think we have the same stories because they have happend? Or ya just think its the old farts club making up stories? BTW I'm 30. Show me one post where I said they were bad? I do say not to rely on them, and that I don't like the attitude it seems to foster. But the device is a good one. I have one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Gee your right John, I guess we should all get AAD's for our mains as well. Then there would be no chance of us ever getting killed! No John,for a guy so smart you missed the point way to much. While I like AAD's I don't like the attitude that some people take with them...But since its clear you just like to argue...Im done with you, yet AGAIN and your arguing ways. Its a shame. You could actually help insted of being pain in the ass all the time. But I guess its just the way you are huh? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Are you arguing just to argue? It seems like it. If a reserve is used without a CYPRES..YOU saved yourself. YOU were able to save yourself. If a CYPRES saves you you did nothing. YOU DID NOTHNING to save yourself. How hard is that to understand? One way YOU saved your own life...The other you did nothing. See the big difference? One you did something...the other you did nothing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And John if you pay attention you would see I like the device, but I don't like how people treat it. How they use it to do more dangerous things insted of training and thinking safely... But you argue every thing, so why should this be different? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Reserve you did something... CYPRES you did nothing. I don't like the Im safe I have a CYPRES attitude that some of the "CYPRES Gereration" have. They should learn to use their brains not a device to save them. You want more info read my other posts I am truely done here.. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Simple the stupid little device saved them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about yours and your types "Guns are bad" stance? You can't even admit that they can be a good thing. A properly armed, properly trained civilian is a way to reduce crime. If you like the way some places in the world have gun laws...move there. Don't allow them in your home. But don't try to take them from mine. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It does not look like anyone will let me. I only paid 600.00 bucks for it new. I bought it at the request of a very good friend of mine. (In fact he paid the other 600.00 for it). It is a very good back up, and if you look at all of my posts my issue is not with the CYPRES, but rather the attitude it fosters. I don't like to hear things like "It's OK, I have a CYPRES, so I can do it" Or "My CYPRES will save me". And I don't like the fact that there are more and more people that buy one and think that it makes them safe. Or that more and more people depend on them but pretend they don't. I don't like how people will do things with them that they would not think of doing without one. Back before the CYPRES was popular, we sat around and fiqured out the ways that we could get killed in this sport...We studied how others got hurt or killed to prevent it from happening to us. Nowadays there are a large number of "Newbie" jumpers that show up, do AFF in a week, buy new color matched gear and they put more thought in the color of the pop top, than why they got an AAD or RSL. Since it has been invented the CYPRES has saved several people...But most of these "Saves" are due to a skydiver really just screwing up, not being knocked out which is why most jumpers say they have them. They say that since its the "cool" reason to have one, or the reason they were told why others have them. Again not thinking about it, but just being a parrot and saying what they heard... Anyone that has actually looked at the CYPRES saves page will see that very few were actually knocked out. Most were just simple fatal screwups. Now Im glad that these people are not dead, but they really did screw up and need to look at why, not just replace the cutter and get on the next load. Better yet, realize that they are dependant on them (The best way to do this is ask yourself if you would jump without one) and find out why you feel you need it. Then try to fix what it is that makes them feel dependent. Even better, find out the hundreds of ways to get killed in this sport and don't do those jumps even if you have a CYPRES. Looking back to the post that started this whole mess. Someone left a plane that has a low tail that was at max power and in a climbing configuration. Now I knew that this is risking a tail strike...Since it has happend many times before. This person didn't...Why? There was a fatality just two years ago due to this. How did they not know? And why were they the only person on a plane load to hit the tail? The answer is that they never were told about it , or she never read about it. Now why is that? The answer is the attitude that is being grown by a reliable AAD and the reports of the saves...You read this and think "Man it was lucky they had an AAD!" or "Thats why people should have an AAD!" I read it and ask why she hit her head. Now I am glad she did have an AAD, but why did she hit her head in the first place? See the difference in the thinking? And then I get jumped for asking why she was the only one to hit her head and KNOCK HERSELF OUT insted of me just singing the praises of the magic black box. The lession here is not to jump with an AAD, but to use your head to minimize the chances of needing to be saved by one. Same thing with loss of altitude awareness. A guy says he went low and the first piece of advice he gets is "Get an audible"....I tell him to learn how to tell altitude with his eyes so he can jump without an altimeter, and learn that a new device is not the answer. "I didn't hear my Pro Track", "My Altimeter Broke" are not a good reasons to go low. Why do I jump an AAD (Or even an Altimeter, Helmet, Audible)? Simple, I can fuck up and die, you can fuck up and kill me. I'd rather not die, so I plan dives that are safe, THEN I try to jump with the saftey gear that I thought about before just strapping it on. I know both the good and bad of every piece of gear I use...Do you? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

They are out there...the CYPRES will save them. They KNOW it will. One has been saved twice that I personally know. These are the people I have issues with...And Wendy said it just fine...don't do with a CYPRES a jump that you would not do without it. THATS Saftey, not buying a cool neat'o' toy. And if you will not jump without a CYPRES, that is device dependency....I will freely admit I depend on my reserve to be there *most* of the time. First people need to admit they are dependent...Then they need to look at why. Then they should take steps to reduce that dependency. Scared you will get knocked out? Don't go on zoo loads. Learn about things like A/C can have low tails when at high power and climbing. Don't go on bigger loads than you would feel safe without the CYPRES. Try to avoid jumping freefly with people known to cork, or people of unkown or dubious skill levels. Scared you will loose altitude awareness? Learn how to judge altitude by sight. Don't do Freefly jumps till you are comfertable with the basic life saving portion of skydiving. Scared you will not be able to handle it when "it" hits the fan? Practice, practice, practice, Train, train, train your Emergency procedures. Do an intentional cutaway on a tersh rig. Get into the hanging harnes and drill, drill, drill. These are safe, and show you are safe...Or that at least you are trying to be... Just buying a CYPRES does not make you safe. I DO know people who think it does....It gives you a second chance to hug the people that are important in your life. A CYPRES fire is a big deal...You screwed up badly and most likley should be dead. Unfortunatly some people don't think this way. Some see it just like a reserve ride (Which by the way I don't just think of it as "just a reserve ride"). And this number is growing, and will grow more since modern AAD's are much more reliable than ever before. I think a CYPRES is a good thing, but the attitude that is growing about them is not. Don't do things with them that you would not do without one. And that is my last post on it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1.7 loaded Stiletto. I found the Cobalt to be junk. Opened hard (unless I got a new PC for my rig....Funny the Stiletto opened great with the same PC?). It did fly OK, but don't confuse "It flies bigger" with "Its not as fast" It did flair ok...Not really any different than my Stiletto. I am sure both can be good canopies, but I have never jumped a Stiletto that had bad habits...I have jumped Cobalts that did. Its hard to beat PD's consistancy. Two new Stilettos will fly very much the same...I can't say that for any other manufactorer. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes it was about letting women be able to compete in a more fair area....Since they seem to be doing fine without it it seems redundant. But the point of this post was should women be allowed to compete in 4way womens AND OPEN...The answer is no. It would allow them to "Practice" the dive. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Im done with this...I have become burned out. This place is why I have become burned out. I am not going to comment for a while... I really don't care if people listen anymore...so I am going to quit "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334