Ron

So you can understand bad intel in one area, but not another? That makes no sense at all. Bad intel is bad intel no matter who it is for, or what it is. Actually it was the data used to invoke a UN resolution. No, thats hindsight and being overly compassionate. It is easy to be right about a situation after it has happend. The intel that Powell used was older than 6 weeks...Some of it may have been recent, but there was a history of SH having WMD's. Uh, he has been playing "hide the WMD" longer than you have cared about WMD's. He was good at it. And I bet that he had WMD's and that he hide some, lost some, and sold or gave away some. Are you claiming that he never had WMD's? If he had them, and he has not shown us what he did with them...Then where are they? You think the CIA, FBI, NSA..ect have good processes in place? Nope, in fact they suck. Ever see the movie "Men in Black"? One of the best lines was something along the lines of, "The Earth is in danger from aliens everyday. The average person just does not know about it." If you see a Nuke for the first time it is a big deal. If you are around them everyday...They can become boring. The intel folks see shit everyday that would curl you up like a little girl and start you crying. You just don't know about it. The only "proof" would be to find them. We were not really allowed to waltz around looking for them. And Kerry lost mine when he admitted to commiting war crimes and by not being able to stick to one side of a subject. We knew they were there before the war...He used WMD's 10 times since 1983 according to Clintons NSA Berger. The only question is what did he do with them? WMD's don't just dissolve into thin air. I agree we need to find out what was the truth and who knew what. Congress voted to go to war becasue they were convinced by the evidence....The same evidence that Bush used to make his choice. Why is Bush at fault, but not Congress? Why is Bush at fault, even when both Gore and Kerry also thought SH had WMD's? I assume you mean Kerry... It looks to me like Kerry said we needed to disarm SH...It also seems like he thought the risk of WMD's was real....Add in that he voted to use force...How do you get he saw no reason to invade? Because he said later after it was clear that Dean, as a Anti-war canidate, was beating Kerry at the polls? Hindsight is normally 20/20. And this thread is about how Kerrys folks seem to be missing the mark on Bush's service. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, but you argue that Bush is wasting time and money on unneeded BS..But it is clear that the Government has been doing BS like this for hundreds of years. to blame Bush is silly...The problem is Government. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

True. This would not be the first bit of intel that was found out later to be incorrect. Intel takes much longer than 6 weeks to get the raw data, analize it, catalog it, organize it, interpret it, and get it to someone who cares. As for where it is: 1. Syria. 2. Buried (Remember we found several new jest buried...Iraq is one big sandbox.) 3. Destroyed. It is quite possible that some if it was destroyed on porpose, or by accident. 4. Lost. Hell the Us has lost track of Nuclear material...I have no doubt that some of SH stash has been lost/stolen/sold...ect. why would we have to know that it was never there? Thats just the battle cry of the left. You want to make Bush out to be a war monger. Ever think that maybe it was bad intel that everyone thought was valid? Or maybe he did have some, but moved it? I think it's both fuzzy intel and moved to be honest. You should since it shows that the intel the President acted on was good enough to fool: Gore, Berger, Kerry, almost all of Congress, the UN, the UK, the UAE, ect. You take on it is even though Bush, Kerry, Gore, Berger, the US Congress, Intel agencies from around the world...Ect all thought that it was credible, but only Bush is at fault. Thats just silly. Congress to include Kerry voted for the war. The UN voted to allow force. There was plenty of evidence to show he had WMD....Almost everyone agreed. Now the rats jump ship in hindsight. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Throtle servo went out on landing...not enough power to climb well, but to much to land. So I ahd to fly it around till it ran out of gas (20 min) and then dead stick it.... A Pitts does not dead stick well. But it was fine. I would not bet on it. It might be able to lift 10 more pounds, but it would be out of CG. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

you seem to think that this is just an issue now? The Brady Bill was a waste of time and money as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, if it's new and unproven it has a higher chance of not working correctly. A new product can have unseen problems...Novas, Crossfire 1's, The Reflex, Raven reserves, Astra's (anyone even jump these anymore? Remember they were the next big thing?), SUV's flipping over,...I could go on. If it is old it has a higher chance of breaking due to wear. My old Stilleto was sent in for a reline and they said they didn't want it flying anymore...It had over 2,000 jumps on it, and when the pull tested it it ripped apart....a lot. My new Stiletto most likley will not rip to pieces if I pull test it. So you have two risks...One is that a new device will have problems, the other is that an old device will break. Best bet? Get a new device based on proven designs and materials from a company with experience in that field. Of the AAD's on the market, the only one that fits that is the CYPRES2...And even then I would not be the first in line to get one...They too had problems. From my understanding in Germany devices are given a "life span"...And it makes sense that a company that is in Germany would follow that same thought with a product they make. Don't get me wrong...I don't think a CYPRES will turn to crap in 13 years...And I a pissed that they gave thema life span. However, it seems to me that nothing lasts forever, and I don't know enough about electronics and AAD's to know what the life span of a product is....And in the case that an AAD breaking could kill someone, I can see the desire not to just wait to see when they start to break. My Stiletto was a fine example...I needed a line set on it for 800 jumps...But I finaly sent it in, and found out that it was unsafe. If the lines were not bad, I might have jumped it till it exploded. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope. Besides an R/C airplane...hell a real airplane say an otter would not be able to carry enough to be a big deal. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Kery himself said he was a War Criminal. I am just repeating what he said...Who would know more about what a person did? Them or anyone else? If Bush said he was AWOL, then I would agree...But he didn't say that, and no one has proven he was. All you have seen is a few possibly forged documents. Kerry himself said he was a war criminal....In front of congress no less. I have never said he was a lousy soldier, and I have not questioned his medals. The Navy however IS questioning his medals, and his own peers are saying that he was lousy soldier. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But being old DOES mean that it has a higher chance of breaking. I'm pissed that my CYPRES will die. They said it would not, then changed their position. If the Vigil proves to be as safe as the CYPRES I will buy one on that reason alone...But so far in my eyes the Vigil has not shown to be safe and reliable. I will sit back and let others test them for me. That action will not make me cool, but I don't care about me being seen as cool. I would rather stay safe. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh I am sure if anyone digs hard enough you can find a problem with anyone. But Kallend has his panties in such a twist about losing his model rockets, I would not be suprized if he already didn't call them. At any rate I don't have any C4 around my house so I feel pretty safe. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He had proof...The same proof that made the UN, Congress, Clinton, Burger, Gore, the UK intel agency...ect all think SH still had WMD. You think you have more information than was given the President? You think you would have made a better choice? Very true. He didn't not comply with the inspections. He DID have weapons that were not allowed by the sanctions against him, he sponsored terroism...ect. The world is safer without him. SH had WMD's he never told the inspectors what he did with them, he dodged every attempt to make him come clean. It is not like SH was an innocent man. He was quilty and out on parole. He violated almost every bit of his release. Countries like France that were also violating the restrictions were against us go into Iraq. If you had a criminal that was out on parole, and he broke his parole...what would you do to him, nothing? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Gotta love it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then tell them on me. I am not breaking any laws by owning them. I have nothing to fear from them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

To me it seems you don't read enough. It seems to me that the Kerry Camp makes up lies all the time. (Bush went AWOL?...How did he get an Honorable discharge?) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hell ALL parties involved thought he had WMD: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Gee looks like he served to me... Ya know the real closer for those lies that he didn't serve? He got an HONORABLE discharge. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you are to stupid to use a paper punch I don't want you voting. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I love this: You mean like winning cause they got more votes? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Lets not forget that several countries thought he had them... And a list of Dems favorite folks: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well I guess evryone lied about WMD's then: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Most of Europe has issues with most of America anyway. Why should Bush not be under the same BS? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Boy a lot of people were wrong about WMD's huh? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bill, MarkM, mattjw916 Do you drive 12 year old cars? I know you CAN, but given the choice of a 1993, or a 2005 which do you think is more reliable, and safer? friflaj Do you drive a 1993 car that has been overhauled? Just cause it has new components does not mean it is as safe as a 2005. You can all claim that a 1993 unit is just as good as a 2005....Even in reguards to aviation....But a new Bonanza is better than a 1993. A new Cessna 182 is better than a 1993. Anyone here think the Cirrus is a worse plane than a 1990 Cessna 182? Just because it may still work does not mean it is better. How many of you jump Sentinals? Liemberg, The CYPRES 2 is not "Proven" in my eyes...But it is miles above the Vigil in the fact that the CYPRES2 is based off of a popular quite reliable design. The history of the CYPRES has its black marks...But that was for the most part a while ago. And I liked how CYPRES handled the problems...I don't like how Vigil tried to hide the problems. BTW, I am looking to replace my 2001 Mustang GT...I will NOT be buying the 2005 GT due to not wanting to be the first to have the cool new toy with unknown problems...The 2003 Cobra had 390 HP, 390 foot pounds of tourque, and a problem with the #8 cylinder. The 2004 Cobra had the same HP and tourqe...without the problems. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But notice the last one had to do with AGE? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334