Ron

so if you don't know if gun control works....Why are you for it? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then why are more deaths in "crimes of passion" by blunt force trama than guns? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If someone wants to hurt someone they can find a tool to do it. I can have a gun in my hand and not feel the need to use it on someone. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Because people who are trying to protect people go over board and don't think. There was one poster on here that said that he wished a company would go bankrupt before it laid off people....That is emotion not logic talking. To many people let emotions make the choices, they don't look at facts. The politicians will do what they think will make them popular and get them elected. "Common Sense" and "Facts" do not play into that. Only if they look at it with an open mind. It is way to easy to discredit what you don't want to believe. Fear. And people using that fear to try and get power. Fear and emotions. If you have a friend die in a violent attack where the attacker used a gun...Some people will assume that without the gun it would not have happend. Instead of blaming the criminal, they want to blame the tool the criminal used. In truth more people die from blunt force tramma in a violent attack than gunshot...But a bat does not have the same "fear factor" as a gun. And a person could do more damage with a shotgun than a handgun....But handguns are "Evil". Its all emotions, not logic. I could not care what the "facts" are....It is in our Constitution that we may keep and bear arms. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think its kinda sad really. People should take the advice of one anti Bush site and "Move on". All they are doing is making the country look even more stupid. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not following this all. I will add this. If I am going to land off I am going to land near a person, not equipment. Equipment might not need medical attention. As for gear landing off....Spot it from the air. Locate it, but don't risk an off landing for it. (Unless you are really good, and you KNOW the area is open). There is nothing worse than trying to be anice guy and then finding yourself in a life and death situation. Id rather lose gear than friends. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You should qualify that a bit....I can see all kinds of bad things being dropped in that box. (And even that statement can be taken wrong with this crowd) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ladies and Gentelmen...We have a winner! Respect that the ground does not care who you are, what you we trying to do, how nice you are, or how many times its worked before. Thats not to say don't have fun and push the limits... But do it in small steps and only one limit at a time. This is the reason I have not jumped a Birdman suit. I have a Stiletto 107 at 1.7. Not the best canopy to jump a BM with I am told. My friends say I can borrow their canopy to jump it....So lets see new type of dive with new strange gear....No thanks. The #1 smartest thing I have done in this sport is to accept that it will kill me. When I feel the risk of dying is not worth the thrill...I'll quit. To ignore the very real danger of death or minimize it....is foolish. #2 is to listen to people with more *experience* than me. That means me listening to the guy with 200 FF jumps about FF since it is more than I have. That does *not* mean listening to him on everything such as spotting, canopy flight, ect. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Now whats funny is this same kind of statement got me banned in another thread...But I bet it will not happen in this case. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thats a good question. The problem is by whos terms do we define what is "moral"? I know people who think that it is "moral" to true to themselves and be gay, I know others that think it is not. So who is "moral" and who is not? I know folks that think stealing is "moral" in some cases, and I know others that it is never "moral". I know folks that think killing is never "moral". But I also know folks that think killing for a good cause is "moral". As for this ad....Well I have seen it on TV and it does not bother me in the least...In fact I think it is quite good, and pretty effective. They have decided to attract a segment of the population that feels can't go to church. Now if Jesus(TM) would accept these folks...I can't say, nor would I care to, I am not religious. However, if you believe in God(TM) then you must also believe that he will deal with those that he does not agree with in his way, in his time. So the questions of is homosexuality ok, is murder justified, or can stealing be OK in the eyes of God....Are for God(TM) to decide, not me. So this ad is no bother to me. It is not overt and it is I think well written and from a marketing aspect a good idea and a good delivery. However, I also respect the right of a company to decide how it wants to do business. So if these stations do not want to run that ad...In my opinion they have that right. If I had a station and I made the descision that NO religious ads were to be run...That is my right. Also if I decide that I will only run religious ads...That is also my right. So while I see nothing "bad" in that ad....I also understand and respect the companies right to not run it. It is called a free market. The company now has to live with its choice. If you like the fact they are not running that ad, support them by watching their programs. If them not running that ad upsets you, boycott the station. And God, Budda, Allah, Huhamed, the IS...ect will deal with the people (or not) when they see fit. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, and ya know why? Haliburton is a company that is set up to make money. The UN is a political organization that is corrupt and uses its power to make money. I expect people who work for HB to make money. I don't expect people who claim to be the organization of world togetherness to line their pockes with money. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Doing a Demo into the 82d's All American Week I had a UH-60 guy tell me the same thing. After quite a nice ride I told him that it was not bad, but skydiving was better. After a Tandem he agreed. But I got to ride with him several times, and I took my squad with me to "Practice" insertions. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Know of any stock cars that already have the line input? I have an iPod and I have the same problem....I also am kicking around the idea of getting a new car as mine is at 100,000 miles. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Gee if you can't see it, I am not going to waste my time....And I have a great deal of time to waste, so that says something. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

From you: Do I need to go on? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

For a real track you have to be able to use lift. You can't get lift without forward movement. You can practice the position several ways. My fav is to have a person put his hands on your shoulders and hold you back. It can be done in a closed tunnel (SV) by having the guy stand with his back against the wall. Or in an open tunnel (Bragg) by having the guy stand ouside the airflow. But each will not give you the correct feed back for a max track. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You have said time and time again how you blame the PA on Bush. You are blamming the 3 repubs that have problems with this bill on holding it up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Guys please don't turn this into a bash thread. pccoder said something in haste and has since said he was wrong. I started this thread to show folks a few things: 1. That you WILL make mistakes. Newbie or old hand, you will screw up. How you react to that screw up decides if you will survive to learn the lesson, or if others will learn the lesson at your funeral. 2. I see a trend on here for people to not admit to making mistakes, or trying to hide or lie about the mistakes they made. Bill made a good post about a stupid thing he did and it got me to thinking that maybe we ALL should be honest about some of the dumb things we have done. By being honest and not hiding our mistakes others can learn from our moments of stupidity...And we all have them. Since I have made my fair share of really bad mistakes and choices, I decided that I would go first. I wanted others to know that everyone makes mistakes and that it is ok to admit them and share them. I would like this thread to continue since there are others that read these and think "How could that happen?". I want two things to come of this. I want people to be honest and admit and share when they screw up. I want others to learn from others mistakes before they make them. So please allow this to be a tool for absolving your stupid moments, and a place to learn. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not to get picky....But I have seen it kill normally heads up folks that just got distracted or careless once....It only takes once. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

They are both bills in Congress. You bitched about the first one being passed to fast without considering what the downsides were. You are bitching about the second one not being passed fast enough and don't seem to care about the possible downsides. Thats two seperate stances of the same type of problem. The only thing both have in common are that you have found a way to blame republicans for both issues. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Some bills take YEARS to pass...you wanting it NOW is rushing it. And I rather it be right, than done in a hurry and it be fucked up. What about the other two issues? Nothing to worry about? You have proof, or are you just ASSUMING again? Cause you say the PA was done to fast and was messed up, but you think this is perfect and to slow....I find that funny. As is your constant bitching about everything. How is this smacking you in the face? You would rather it be rushed and be possibly fucked up...I'd rather the members of Congress do the job we hired them to do and try to get it right....Ya know instead of just pass it and we all have to deal with the problems of it later. And I'm bitching about how you slam the government for doing one thing, and then slam them for not doing it in another case. So the Governmet is only OK if you agree with it no matter what facts there are in the situation. Passing the PA fast was bad, Taking the time to make sure this bill is not fucked up is bad...Just cause you say so. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Some say this is as well....It just took longer to jerk. And now people want to have the time to read and question THIS bill...While ignoring the preasure form the White House. I think thats a good thing, but others (Who seem to be the same ones bitching about the PA act) are bitching that its taking to long....I find that funny. Who's fault is that? Would you rather this bill get passed the same way? And a good number of this bill is ideas that never were passed before...Some good, some bad, some with unknown problems....Like I said I think its a good thing that it does not rush through. And I have not read the entire thing either...But the three questions so far, two are big enough that I don't want it passed without them answered. One is not a deal breaker to me. I would like to know how the intel is going to get to the troops...I would hate to have soldiers die cause some nice bit of intel was sitting on the wrong desk. I would like to know how much power this new positon is going to have....I would hate to create ANOTHER level of BS that feeds on itself. DL for illegals....I don't like the idea, but I would not let it stop the train. But Congress does this all the time, they attach 4 or 5 things and they really only want 3 of them passed. The other 2 they bargain with. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That is far different than knowing it...you know the story about assume right? No, I am trying to understand how you can support this bill being rushed but on other bills you think that was a bad idea. I bet plenty of folks thought the PA was a good idea...Then they changed thier minds later. I'd rather Congress take the time to get it right the first time. This bill has a few good points, and some that are maybe not good ideas....Id rather Congress take the time to do it right than just pass it in a hurry and maybe get people killed in the process..... But you and others would rather they just pass it and not worry about the problems that could happen with it....That is until you start to bitch about it later. THAT is my issue...You claim the PA was passed to fast, but when people try to not let that happen again, you bitch that they are not fast enough. Sensenbrenner not wanting states to give illegals DL is a good idea. Hell, even Quade thinks so. Maybe its not enough to stall the bill, but in time that will get added and passed, or it will get thrown out. Hunter's fears about how the flow of intel might get screwed and risk the lives of troops is VERY valid. But I guess you would just rather pass the bill and then after troops get killed go back and blame the bill in hindsight. How much power the new director is a BIG concern he will have close to 80 BILLION at his control...And how he uses that, and who he answers to is a BIG DOT DEAL. But I guess you would rather they not worry about that, pass the bill and then later you can bitch about how he has to much power....Ya know like how you bitch about Rumsfield and Ridge now. I'd rather they take the time and pass the best thing they can the first time....Of course you will find something to bitch about...Like how long it took to pass. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wow, can I jump with you also? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bad move....Go to school. So what if you can't afford to jump? That is not everything. You can afford it AFTER you get a job with your degree. Don't piss away your future for the now. Look at me, I have over 3,000 jumps and no degree....If I could, I would trade those for a degree. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334