Ron

How would you like to do a 100 way. You show up and insted of the otters and skyvans they have King Airs and DC-3's? You *could* still do it, and the good folks would be able to pull it off. But it is not the same as an aircraft that is better suited for bigways. Look, I have said *I* would still have done the meet. However I also understtand being pissed when you are told one plane will be there and it is not even perfect for 4way (My team has to change exits and will not launch a few out of the caravan) but then to show up and find a plane even worse. The 99 has a jump run speed 10-15 knots higher than an otter or caravan. I understand being up set when offered one plane and being given another. Like I said imagine going to a bigway camp and getting King Airs. Or imagine going to the Convention and the Jet never showing up....Oh wait, thats happend. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Agree 100% Also you touched on it. WE wanted skydiving to become professional (not all but as a group). Well that means people are going to get paid for their time now. Back when I started, and at SL DZ's today, I see up jumpers taking new folks under their wings. It does not happen when people are out to make a buck. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Judy....I disagree with you 100% It think it would be a fun idea for a fun meet, but not Nationals. People like you may not take the Nationals seriously, but some do. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Been thought about. Didn't go over very well. The teams LIKE the exits. What else would we change? Not let teams near a tunnel do more than 5 hours? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You miss the point that the NSL is NATIONAL and you compete against people from all over the US. Making one meet jump a plane that no other meet is, AND a plane that really is not considered at "comp" plane ever is kinda stacking the odds against the teams that have to use the 99. Also, competition RULES state that jump speed is 85-90 knots and the 99 has a jump speed of over 100 knots. It is asking the teams to do something they have never done, at a different airspeed than they have used at a meet where they are competing with people all over the US. Lets not forget that the teams were told they would have a caravan and then got screwed. No offense, but have you ever trained 4way? I have. I think the teams had the right to get upset. They were told they would have a caravan and then they got a plane that is honestly different enough that they didn't want to jump it in a meet. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not even thinking about you....Just a general observation. I didn't even check where you were from. It juat amazes me how people can band together to shut down a DZ. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well I know but some people do see us not hanging around as anti social....Not true, but it is a perception. Late August. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The Trex rocks! It is very cheep to crash/repair. So we have been getting really stupid with them. I would do something about the stock speed controler...It kinda sucks. I think it comes with a 25A? I'd get a 35A and something other than the Align one. I had a few crashes due to me asking to much of the 25A controler and it just shutting down. Not an issue if you are just flying it, but once you start flipping and doing 3D the 25A just does not hold up. The first thing I did was put a medusa BEC on. It helped, but I still smoked my speed controler. I put the 35A align on (shop practically gave it to me) and it worked OK. I also put the medusa 3200kva motor.....WOW. So much power the tail could not hold it. I went from throttle curves with 100's to 70's and it still has more power. Another thing to do is replace the bushings with hard plastic. We had a guy with the stock bushings give himself an in air boom strike due to the bushings giving so much. Hope this helps. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This better? Good flying. http://media.putfile.com/Wing-Failure "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Travel to other DZ's close to you. Try and get a group together. It can start as a two way and build from there. Work on basics together. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its called being polite. My job does not care if I surf at work. Not one bit. They DO care if I look at porn at work. So why does it bother you so much for people to be polite? Its not like it takes away from you, or takes much time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Smart move, congrats on getting back. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

do tell! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah, I wonder if she is getting invited due to hotness as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

QuoteI'm only bashing the teams staff that take up too much time in the door and kick around other people's canopies cause "they are on a team staff". See how it all goes around? The worst bitch out I ever got was from an instructor. The worst attitude I ever saw? Freeflyer. Do I know some asshole 4way folks? Yep, but I also know asshole instructors, ff, DZO's and even students. I think Anton was right....People get blamed for the attitude of their teammates. Also, people get blamed for being on a team when someone knew a jerk on a team, at another DZ, a few years ago...Therefore all teams are jerks. And I know some people think teams are jerks...You saw my team RUNNING all day to make loads. As much as I would have loved to hang out more when you were down, I made 14 jumps with not really enough time to take a dump. By the time the beer light was on...I was toast. Some people see that and think, "Wow, that team is not very friendly. They just left after they were done." That being said, I may be in Nashville next mth. I am planning on going to the DZ when there...Then I would love to play. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, but if you expect one thing and get other the DZ made the mistake. I bet that my team doing the same jumps out of an Otter vs any other plane will score better with the Otter. It is what we TRAINED. Could we do OK? Yep, but we will do better with what we trained. And it is a meet. I think insted of automaticly bashing the teams, Lets find out if they were promised something else. If so then the DZ made the error, not the teams. I can't blame the teams if they were promised one thing and were given another. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ah, the voice of reason It is a higher risk jump. If people are willing to take that risk, I hope they are smart enough to take extra precautions. I have 10-15 of them, both as a Sluggo and as a Bill. If it were not for me listening to Winsor, one of them that seemed like a good idea, might have killed me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The pettyness of you folks is killing me. Spence is right on. You folks who are trying to willingly shut down a DZ are really stupid. Competition brings better prices. Lets try and take a small sport and kill it by being children On a personal note Don Zarda!!! Tennis Ball Head!!!! I have not seen or heard from him in years. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nah. My only issue is being told to expect one plane and then a different type shows up. I think a good number of people don't care. I have been told that this plane was not even going to fly a normal comp jump profile and would be going 100 knots for jump run. 85-90 is normal. SO I could see a team getting mad is they were told they would have a caravan and then getting this plane. I don't blame them for going....*I* however would have done the comp anyway as long as I felt the plane/pilot was safe. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Agree 100%. This I disagree with. There are very few jumpers that can make this their life. If you jump, you are a skydiver. Everyone thinks that this sport should be your whole life.....Well it is fun for a while, but then it can get old. I spent a few years living on a big DZ. It was fun, but that time has past. Skydiving does not need to be your life. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And that is why I recommend that people use one. But not at the cost of not training, or doing more dangerous things since they have one. I don't think a mistake should be fatal. I do think we should use our heads to not get into dangerous situations. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then you should of used his code name...."Nicely dressed Ron." You are starting to get me confused (not that it is hard). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This is the kinda stuff I love...Anton, I had not answered this till AFTER you posted that. What are you pyschic? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why bother, you said it for me Dave: Yes a good 4way team (Airspeed) could kick most everyones butt out of a hot air balloon. However, most teams are not that experienced. I think the best analogy was making swoopers jump a different canopy...Just about perfect. Slaten, Bobo, Pilcher, well they would stomp most people, but guys like you and me might not do so well. Even worse if I got to jump my canopy, but you had to jump something new to you...Close, but not the same. Say you had to jump a Stiletto 150, not your Crossfire 149. Who has the advantage? My dream is to have a comp where you have to compete in several types of jumps. Say a two way comp with seperate jumps with different goals. A 2 way RW jump. A 2 way FF jump. A 2 way CRW rotations jumps. A team distance swoop. A team accuracy jump. Add them all up and you would have your top team. But this was a 4way meet, not my dream meet and lower experinced teams do not adjust well....Hell, I have video of Airspeed and the Knights funneling out of new aircraft. The exit is a BIG deal in a meet. And with that said. I have shown up at a DZ and that DZ told me they would have a certain plane for the meet. When I got there it was a different plane. Now while *I* would still compete since as long as everyone had the same "handicap" it would be fair. However, since the NSL allows teams to compete accross the US having only one are have a handicap is not cool. Here is my thing. Did the DZ promise a certain plane an then not produce? If so then then I don't really blame the teams. If the teams knew before hand what the plane was...Well then they don't get much pity from me. So before we get a rope and hang the teams....Lets find out if the DZ held up its end of the deal. But thats ALL kinds of jumpers, not just teams. I have seen FF hose spots and throw tantrums, big ways, AFF's I's...ect. The worst yelling at I got was from an Instructor about how the DZ is for students, not "up" jumpers. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I thought they had reopened....But maybe not. Never served there and have been out for a while. But thanks for the info. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334