CSpenceFLY

Or the luck of not killing someone with a beer.

Someone has to be an ass and it was my turn.

Let me get this straight, you waited 2 1/2 years and wasted your first post on this?

It is stupid, but I'm not discounting either issue. In case it's not super clear, I'm doing my damndest to get someone, anyone to write an article, letter or op/ed for our magazine about why we're wrong, why SkyRide deserves to be the one cause we all get behind to fight against, why we need to keep fighting the good fight, why we should boycott every last ounce of SkyRide anything. Anyone? Please? Bueller? lara@blueskiesmag.com I agree with you all that SkyRide is something we should fight against. Where I get lost is when it appears to me - and I could be totally wrong, naive, silly, whatever - that if you don't fight hard enough (i.e., with every fiber of your being) that you're just as bad as they are. And further, although I did greatly (and likely wrongly) exaggerate my point, why it's only SkyRide that we as a community have coalesced to get rid of, when there are a lot of other bad elements in our sport. This is where you are going wrong. You are trying to define this using the view point of a very small portion of our population. The majority of skydivers don't feel that way. However, just because you don't see it doesn't make those people wrong. Kind of like, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. I personally don't hold anything against the fun jumper at these DZs. It sux that they get the brunt end of what Ben,Cary and the rest of the socially crippled mouth breathers have done. Having said that, the minute they know about all of this and witness the scam in progress, I cease to feel anything but contempt for them. Now the staffers and the DZOs that accept their certificates, that's another story.

Damn man,That's a boat. When are you going to downsize?

The same reason Ben & Cary had no trouble finding people to staff their DZs and their call centers. I'll let you put a label on those people.

Ok kids, I'm sad to announce that the Carbones will not be able to come to the boogie this year. We truly appreciate all of their years of support. This puts us in a position of needing someone to supply a quality food service at the boogie. If any of you know someone who might be interested please put them in touch with me. I will not accept $8 Bubba Burgers out of a box. Some of you suggested Dennis Neal, he declined. I've sent a message to Dale in SC, if anyone can contact him please do and have him contact me.

I don't think Jan tried to put Skyride into the same categories as the people she mentioned.

And maybe that's just it - I don't see SkyRide as being on par with murderers. Fraud, deception and deceit, yes. Murder, no. I've not seen anyone try to equate them to murderers. I think you are now stretching things a bit to try to drive your point home. Careful or you are going to become like those you disagree with.

I don't necessarily see people actively defending Skyride. I see it more that the debate has devolved such that anyone who is not a strident and emotional detractor of Skyride is now viewed as a supporter/defender ("If you don't toe the party line, you're against us"). I've seen that rhetorical style in other circumstances and I'm not fan wherever it appears. This is kind of where I see it going, too. I know why SkyRide is BAD, I just want to know why they're the WORST, which is how people treat them. I agree that they're BAD and I'm all for steps to shut them down. Now, we sent support to a boogie that's tangentially theirs - you can make the case that that action did the opposite of what I just said I'm all for, and I'll understand. I understand the argument for us being wrong, and I see its merit. I just see it otherwise - but can still respect that you see things differently. My question is really this, again - how is SkyRide WORSE than a drop zone that knowingly disregards basic airplane maintenance, which results in skydivers dying? How is SkyRide WORSE than a drop zone built on drug money? How is SkyRide WORSE than a manufacturer that doesn't issue timely safety bulletins when it knows that SB could save lives? How is SkyRide the WORST? Why is it so cool to hate SkyRide with such passion, but not these other entities? Why a campaign to get people to unsubscribe from us, but not a campaign to stop jumping at unsafe drop zones? I know there are people who won't jump at certain DZs, but it's not the huge lynch mob that I see when it comes to SkyRide. And really, I really want to know what it is that gets people so incredibly heated about this. With regards to our business practice, Spence, I don't mean to give the impression that it's our way or the highway. If you tell us you want more boogie articles, we're sure as shit going to print more boogie articles. You want less boogie articles? You got it. We're never going to say we believe in something just because we think you'll give us your money if we say it, though. I don't see that as being anti-customer or ranting, just being someone I don't mind looking in the mirror at everyday. Thanks for all the support, too, I love that a reasonable, level-headed conversation is taking place in bonfire :) And, we really do want articles, letters and opinion pieces from everyone. We're failing if we personally agree with everything we print. I don't see the point in trying to put all things wrong in some kind of hierarchy but to address your post... First you have to realize you are dealing with a small group of people here that would lump you(the magazine) into the same group with Skyride. Too small a group,IMO, to get on the internet in the defensive mode you were in. Now to answer your question, They are worst because not only do they effect all of us but they also effect the way the general public sees the skydiving industry. I think if you would have the pleasure of talking to just a few of the people that have been screwed by they you would see the big picture. I've been around since almost day one of this crap. You wouldn't believe some of the stories I could tell you. The reason you don't have huge campaigns against some of the other things you mentioned is safety issues are localized and the majority of the people will never be effected.

I was just stating my opinion. I was trying to avoid getting into a semantics argument with you, and I just took the opportunity you presented by refering to Lara rather reasonable post as a rant. I took that as a sign that you were espousing the "with us or against us" mentality, but apparently I misunderstood. Sorry. I did reread it, and I think I missed some of your point the first time. I disagree, however, that Lara's post was disrespectful in any way. She made a statement, and is sticking by it. The fact that refuses to grovel to out of control fanatics on DZ.com is great. It is possible to stick to you opinion without being harsh. Anyone who knows me will undoubtedly see the irony in me posting this tidbit of life advise.

While I agree with you, do you really feel the need to explain the situation again? I already agreed with Bilvon. My reason for putting in my .02 was in hope that they would not get into a pissing contest that would ultimately hurt the magazine. I think that disrespectful responses form business people might rub people the wrong way who couldn't care less about the rest of this. Maybe you go back and re read what I posted here.

Boogie attendance just went up. Hope you can make it.

Is that the one you admit you haven't read? No, that would be the one posted here. Any other questions?

Most of the posts I see here come from fun jumpers that I know travel to events like this just trying to get more information. You have handled yourself poorly in this thread. If you are starting out coming across like this I would hate to see you in a couple of years. Good luck.

Good question. I stay so busy I don't know if we have had any the last couple years. Anyone?

"Sex on a spoon" I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Someone posted something not too long ago about a new DZ somewhere over there.

You are right and I hope some of those people are listening.

And to this I say,"What a bunch of fucking morons".

Personally, I find that tone quite refreshing. They're not going to be politically correct to get your money. Good on 'em. I'm willing to bet you would not feel the same if it were your cell provider, power company or any other business that gave you this kind of tone. Do I agree with the tone of the OP. No, not really. Do you see any professional journalist react with a rant like this. Not usually.

I haven't read this editorial, maybe someone can bring me a copy in March. I don't see the event that started all of this as a big deal and I think it has been blown out of portion. It might not even have been a bad idea to write an editorial to make people think. Getting on here with the "if you don't like it take your money elsewhere" tone, to me is bad form. It's a peeve of mine not only here but in any form of business and probably rubs many people the wrong way regardless of how they feel about this issue. Also, after the remarks made here I hope we never see Skyride or any of their businesses advertising in your magazine.

Google scans all of mine.

Why are you interested in this event? It's a mirror image of a thousand other under skilled canopy pilots.

Can I jump my base rig from the balloon? No, and the balloon pilot is a jumper so he will notice.