rigging65

It's only happened one other time that I'm aware of. But the point is, there is no benefit lost by either removing the top ring or spreading the rings out...so why leave it the way it is (with the possibility of failure)? I've brought this up with Sunpath before, but they didn't seem to think it was enough of an issue. Actually, I should correct myself, they thought that positive of having the second ring "far outweighed the downside of a possible failure." As I've said before, one or two failures doesn't necessarily constitute a failed design...but if you could keep all the "positives" of your design by modifying it some and at the same time reduce a possible "negative", why wouldn't you? Seems simple to me... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

NOTE* THIS IS NOT A RECOMMENDATION FOR STUDENTS, but... We've done test drops (and other black bag stuff) that required us to open high and sit around up there burning off altitude. When I wanted down, I'd simply stall the canopy out and wait. It's gets you down at least a bit faster, and it's fun!... As for the winds...if you let yourself get downwind on a large canopy from high altitude, well, at least you've got time to look for an alternate LZ! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I think the point of pulling the reserve handle, regardless of an RSL deployment or not, is to keep you in tune for when there might NOT be an RSL deployment (ie - RSL breaks, unhooks, whatever...) As my noted colleague Hookit pointed out, if you're not ready for a failure, it takes a lot more time to recover from it. Also, I don't buy the argument of "wasted time" when it comes to pulling a handle. It's not like you're going to be getting on the risers and sorting a canopy out so fast that you don't have time to pull a handle...especially if you were planning on pulling it anyway. It takes way less than a second to punch out another handle...and if you're like most jumpers, the second or two after you cutaway is spent watching the reserve deploy anyway (or wetting yourself, whichever...). You can watch and pee and pull the second handle at the same time. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I like mine. They give the canopy a different feel though. If you fine tune you're flying, you can actually create a slight slipping effect (not much) with them as well. Takes a bit of time to get used to them, but I think they improve control once you get them dialed... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

One is probably a good idea, but two rings, IMO, is a bad idea. We had two separate incidents here (years ago) on Student Javs (two guide rings). The students cutaway and pulled the reserve...and the RSL "lanyard" ring lodged against the pin, which happened to be anchored on each side by the two rings on the res. flap. This resulted in the main towing by the RSL lanyard. Both events ended uneventfully, but it's scary stuff.... If you're going to have two rings, they need to be spaced far enough apart so that there is no way the pin can be in contact with both rings at once. Better yet, be sure your hard housing is anchored and go with one ring (also far enough away not to anchor the pin opposite the housing end! ). "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

That's the idea, as I understand it, but a properly secured hard housing isn't going to allow a ring to slip under it. Even if it did, there is no way it would stay put while you went back into freefall. Try it and see for yourself. Just remember, you can fail anything on a bench in a static environment, but the real world is totally different than a bench test!

If you're working with a back-pinned design (ie- a pop top design), it's easier to put a break in the hard housing and route a short RSL lanyard on the left. It would be pretty hard (read - unprotected or unsafe) to bring it from the right side, across the yoke, to the left side...if you think about it. Of course, one reason for a right handed RSL on Tandem Rigs is so that you can get a reserve out from either side of the rig. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Another good option, if you're feeling like you want another "opinion", is to go find a professional canopy coach and get their opinion. I think we all like to think that our Instructors know a lot about these sort of things, and in many cases (maybe even most) they do. But a professional specific to this discipline might have a bit more insight into this...on the other hand, no one knows you better than your Instructors... Just something to think about: Not all Instructors fly their canopies aggressively. There are lots of Instructors out there who fly canopies loaded at 1:1, and never touch their front risers. Cool, that's their choice and they're happy! But, does that really qualify them to know "when can a newbie start using front risers"? Maybe, maybe not... There are also differences depending on how big a DZ you're at. I think most people will agree that bigger DZs see more traffic (duh) and tend to see "more" aggressive canopy flight. This is certainly a generalization, but I hope you see my point. Progressive canopy flight for students was born at Chicago...a big DZ. It's a matter of $$. Schools set up where there are people who want training...generally at destination DZs. Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Just because an Instructor is at a small DZ does not, in any way, mean they're "lessor". In fact, IMO, small DZ Instructors are often able to take a more personal interest in their students which may very well translate into better instruction. But, from my time in the sport/industry, technology seems to favor the bigger DZ. More jumpers = a larger equipment profile and more experience on that equipment. This also, IMO, tends to lean towards a more educated and focused study of canopy control. OK, I've started rambling now, so I'll stop, but I hope this spurs some thought for some of you!

I'd say it's six of one, half dozen of the other, personally. In our shop, we take the main out of every rig because we inspect it, work the rings, clean the cables, etc...and it works into our written checklist better to have the main away from the rig. It also forces the issue of checking continuity on every main, every time. You can't get lazy and "just hook it back up". IMO, If you're careful of with you're doing, it doesn't matter either way! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Everyone progresses differently in skydiving. It's like starting kindergarten all over again. Maybe this "very experienced skydiver who I (you) trust" has seen you both land and thinks your friend is ready to move forward, whereas you're not. That's natural, and it's no hit on you! You can't take things like this personally. Some people learn faster than others in certain areas. I would ask your instructors what they think about your progress, and try not to worry about your friend's progress. It sounds like you friend is moving forward fast, that doesn't mean you're "behind" (if there is such a thing!). I'm sure you're both having fun, and you'll both learn many skills...maybe at the same rate, maybe at a different rate. Just have fun and be safe...so you can keep having fun! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Yeah, but that battery could have been sitting on a shelf somewhere for a long time, in the wrong conditions, and have worn itself down before you ever got your hands on it... I was much more concerned with the fact that we had two cases that started to separate...both without undue stress, and both within 20 jumps. But, like I said, they were certainly nice about taking them back! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It's easy. Sand it down (or at least scuff up the old paint very well with wet/dry sandpaper), clean it up, and apply a spray on primer as per mfg's spec. Let dry. Mask it off as you wish (if you wish) then spray with with a quality latex paint. Put on at least a few coats, letting dry in between each (as per mfg's spec.). Spray with a gloss hardener (as per mfg's spec.) and away you go. I've redone by Factory Diver twice. If you get a good, hard clear coat on it, it'll wear very well!...and it'll cost you all of $15. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

We've had one of them freeze and two of them have their cases come apart. Not a great start for this product, huh? At least the mfg. has been gracious about taking them back! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Actually, if you look back about three of my posts in this thread, I did mention that I'd had a set of risers with tabs on them...of course, I never said that I built them... It was just your benevolent nature getting the best of you Lou! Thanks for looking out for me! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Thanks, I've built them before....but yours look nice! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Your restraint would be well rewarded, but do what you think you need to do... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Just a thought...why not open a separate account for the money that you intend to spend later, rather than spending it now on gear you're not ready for? You don't know what you might want (or need) when you get to the point that you're ready to buy...so why make those decisions now? Who knows, you may decide to get into CReW or some other discipline. Then what? Sell brand new gear at a de-valued price (new gear looses about 25% of it's initial value when you take receipt of it)? Seems like a waste of good money to me. Just my opinion, but buying stuff for the future can get you into trouble...and a separate bank account is cheap! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Reply to Chris, taking the quote form billvon: There's a fine line here. What your buddy may have been offering was the idea that you want to make an intelligent purchase...that is, buy something with a little room for growth. If you're like most people, money is an issue and you can't simply buy another canopy every 100 jumps until you get to a 1:1.3 loading or so. Where you walk the line is how much growth room you're leaving. Personally, with jumpers that I've either instructed or know well, I have no problem getting many of them into a slightly smaller canopy than would be "perfect" for them at 30-60 jumps. But that's only with jumpers I'm familiar with. I certainly wouldn't make a blind statement to all new jumpers to "buy smaller so they can grow into it". You want something that you'd be comfortable landing out, in bad winds, but that you also feel like you can get a bit of growth in. Maybe that means looking at different model canopies as opposed to different size canopies. Ask questions of knowledgeable people you trust (and that know you) and DEMO DEMO DEMO.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

A PD113 is significant;y bigger than a -M109. I'm not saying it won't fit in a V00 (as I don't know), but it is bigger. Why not get the next size bigger container so you can have the bigger (safer) reserve? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Are these magic tabs??? Do they come with a bag of beans??? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I've got an Infinity (true, it has a pretty wide "V" as "V"s go...) and I really couldn't get the mod to work well on it. It would always slip down just a bit (even when I tacked it in place) and made it hard to get to. I then bartacked a ball to the tape right at the mid-line of the yoke. It worked better, but still wasn't as quick as using the velcro strip on my jumpsuit. JP (diablopilot) used to have a velcro strip sewn onto his rig (same as on a jumpsuit). It worked well, but I was never too fond of it because it was really long. Kind of a silly reason not to like it if it's functional, but it was enough for me. I had a pair of risers with the tabs on them, and I think these work best of all, so I'll probably go back to them when I get over being lazy and do some more work on my gear. They just add more bulk to the risers and mine are already pretty bulky. Being a career rigger does that to you...you fiddle with stuff to the point of being ridiculous sometimes...at least I do. Is that weird??? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I'd say it's a bit further along than just bordering on... If a Mfg. gives specific instructions on how a piece of their certified equipment is meant to be used (packed, whatever) and you do something different, you are, in effect, violating the TSO. Rigs are designed, tested and certified in a certain cofiguration. To do anything outside that configuration is NOT certified. This includes using the system at speeds faster than intended....like head down. I don't think it so much matters which part you are using outside of the mfgs. recommendations (ie - TSO vs. non-TSO). I think what JP is getting at is that it's not a good idea to throw out ideas that haven't passed through the Mfg. first, because you don't know what yahoo, without enough experience, is going to try it and not know any better. If what you're talking about is approved by your mfg., make a note of that in your post. If you think about, it wouldn't hurt to throw in "I'm not sure if that's acceptable on a different mfg's. rig though...." For those lurking these posts, if what's being discussed is not in your rig's manual, call the mfg. directly. If they say "NO" then you know where you stand. Don't guess, don't ask a friend (even a rigger friend), go straight to the horse's mouth and get it from them. After all, no one knows a product like the company that designed, tested and certified it. Right? How sad would it be if someone went in because they were trying something they saw posted on here and didn't know enough to see the obvious warning signs when they tried it themselves?? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

What's wrong with 700-1000 ft. openings? Enjoy not having your back and neck in pain! My Xaos routinely takes 1000 ft. to open (or more) and it's like butter every time. Just smile, relax and enjoy the ride! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

The Black Ball is a great idea...but.... Not all rigs will accept this sort of system. In fact, about the only rigs out there that will accept this mod is something like a Jav, with a narrow top reserve flap. It won't work on well most back pinned rigs or on rigs with wide top flaps. Too bad, it's a nice mod. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

A point of clarification. Not all suits will let you add booties easily. Sometimes they can't be added at all. There are some designs that will let you zip on (or off) booties to your suit as you see fit. By getting an option like this, you're allowing yourself the flexabilty without spending too much to have them put on as an after-market part. Ask your suit Mfg. if they can do this for you! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."